Author Topic: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP  (Read 7048 times)

Offline supreme illuminati

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WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« on: May 15, 2007, 12:51:19 pm »
The media has made much of Floyd Mayweather Jr. denigrating the UFC and Dana White's challenge to Floyd regarding Sean Sherk--the UFC lightweight champ--fighting him.Floyd reversed positions in this matter.Shortly thereafter,Kermit Cintron agreed to fight Sherk after he defends his IBF crown in July against Matthyse.At another site,I get into a spirited debate about Cintron v Sherk or ANY boxing champ facing an MMA guy,and if the MMA guy would then return the favor and face the boxing champ in boxing.I think the peeps here will find it interesting...


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Offline D- Ruck

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Re: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2007, 11:35:43 pm »
Forget the UFC, Floyd just need to stick to the plan and stay retired
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Re: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2007, 05:22:32 am »
PUNK ASS! I DARE Merrifeather (who couldn't even finish off the Golden Boy in one of the WACKEST BOXING MATCHES THIS DECADE) to get into the ring with Chuck Liddell or Rampage!!!! And yeah, we get to use our feet! THAT'S WHAT WE TRAIN TO USE! Don't like it, take your ass to taekwondo, potna!

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Re: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2007, 07:40:41 am »
PUNK ASS! I DARE Merrifeather (who couldn't even finish off the Golden Boy in one of the WACKEST BOXING MATCHES THIS DECADE) to get into the ring with Chuck Liddell or Rampage!!!! And yeah, we get to use our feet! THAT'S WHAT WE TRAIN TO USE! Don't like it, take your ass to taekwondo, potna!

Nothing to prove, take your 20 mill and do what you want, F' the UFC
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Offline Sam Wilson

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Re: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2007, 09:50:11 am »
PUNK ASS! I DARE Merrifeather (who couldn't even finish off the Golden Boy in one of the WACKEST BOXING MATCHES THIS DECADE) to get into the ring with Chuck Liddell or Rampage!!!! And yeah, we get to use our feet! THAT'S WHAT WE TRAIN TO USE! Don't like it, take your ass to taekwondo, potna!

he won't because he's a beyotch.  Once he got that first multimillion dollar deal he stopped becomming a fighter and became a high paid hooker, fight bitch for your millions.  MMA fighters actually fight because there is no big money in it, so you have to prove your worth. Fighters are still hungry, and guys like Fedor who come from 3rd world countries where they probably don't see 1 cent of their earnings (well not that little, but I guarantee their keepers get the better deal), they fight to fight and be the best, not to talk sh*t and parade around like they're best in show.  Farieweather should just take up scrapbooking and not blow all his millions on coke and hookers and STFU for real. 

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Re: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2007, 09:58:48 am »
The Mayweather - De La Hoya fight is a prime example of why I HATE paying $55 to see a boxing match!  It's ridiculous, just dancing around hugging each other.  I choose to watch the UFC on Spike TV...that shyt's real and I'm definitely going to get the Liddell vs. Jackson fight because there won't be any pussyfooting around in the octagon.  Mayweather was right to back off of his statement, I thought it was crazy when I heard him say in on ESPN...each type of fighter would have the edge in their element, following their rules, and there's no way he could take a MMA fighter in the octagon.

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Re: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2007, 10:24:07 am »
The Mayweather - De La Hoya fight is a prime example of why I HATE paying $55 to see a boxing match!  It's ridiculous, just dancing around hugging each other.  I choose to watch the UFC on Spike TV...that shyt's real and I'm definitely going to get the Liddell vs. Jackson fight because there won't be any pussyfooting around in the octagon.  Mayweather was right to back off of his statement, I thought it was crazy when I heard him say in on ESPN...each type of fighter would have the edge in their element, following their rules, and there's no way he could take a MMA fighter in the octagon.

I had alot of fun, I'm a pretty big boxing fan, and there was awhole lot of people on the house and I had a great time with the smack talk and I was glad my boy won.  And it wasn't a super classic, but it was pretty good fight.  And I'd pay for that before I'd pay for 2 second UFC fight.
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2007, 11:12:31 am »
The Mayweather - De La Hoya fight is a prime example of why I HATE paying $55 to see a boxing match!  It's ridiculous, just dancing around hugging each other.  I choose to watch the UFC on Spike TV...that shyt's real and I'm definitely going to get the Liddell vs. Jackson fight because there won't be any pussyfooting around in the octagon.  Mayweather was right to back off of his statement, I thought it was crazy when I heard him say in on ESPN...each type of fighter would have the edge in their element, following their rules, and there's no way he could take a MMA fighter in the octagon.

I had alot of fun, I'm a pretty big boxing fan, and there was awhole lot of people on the house and I had a great time with the smack talk and I was glad my boy won.  And it wasn't a super classic, but it was pretty good fight.  And I'd pay for that before I'd pay for 2 second UFC fight.

I enjoyed the fight with PBF and DLH too.However,I wouldn't choose between MMA and boxing...I watch both.U know,get my cake and eat it too....that sorta thing.

Kermit Cintron trains 18 months and squares off against Sean Sherk in the Octagon for the UF lightweight title.I pickCintron to win this one,under these circumstanes.Anybody disagree? If so,why? I flat out think that world champ boxers whom cross trained in MMA and fought in the UFC would fare much much better against the MMA champs than vice versa,and I think the boxers would not need more than 2 yearsto perform this feat.i am adamantly of the mind that an MMA GUY-CUM-BOXER would get dropped and mopped by any TOP 50 boxer in their weight class,and therefore I think that boxing has the superior athletes,superior training,and sueprior resources without a doubt.Maybe in another 15 years or so,the story will be diffrent.Maybe.
The Mayweather - De La Hoya fight is a prime example of why I HATE paying $55 to see a boxing match!  It's ridiculous, just dancing around hugging each other.  I choose to watch the UFC on Spike TV...that shyt's real and I'm definitely going to get the Liddell vs. Jackson fight because there won't be any pussyfooting around in the octagon.  Mayweather was right to back off of his statement, I thought it was crazy when I heard him say in on ESPN...each type of fighter would have the edge in their element, following their rules, and there's no way he could take a MMA fighter in the octagon.


The Chuck/Rampage rematch is a setup for Chuck to win.Rampage needs another 2 or 3 fights to get the rust off before he locks up with Chuck again.he won't be intop form for this match,and that'sEXACTLY why the UFC wants this.Make no mistake,the UFC is the main draw to men--but primarily WHITE MEN--ages 18-30 or so.That's what accounts for its explosive popularity...White guys finally have found a combat sport that they dominate and brothas don't.Of course,all of that will change once...IF?...MMA starts doling out million dollar purses.Brothas will take over after that.In the interim,guys like Dana White will use the whtie male demographic and milk it for every dime.Fertitta Bros and Dana are smart men.Respect their bizness savvy,although there are times that I really wish Dana would just SHUT.UP.
PUNK ASS! I DARE Merrifeather (who couldn't even finish off the Golden Boy in one of the WACKEST BOXING MATCHES THIS DECADE) to get into the ring with Chuck Liddell or Rampage!!!! And yeah, we get to use our feet! THAT'S WHAT WE TRAIN TO USE! Don't like it, take your ass to taekwondo, potna!

he won't because he's a beyotch.  Once he got that first multimillion dollar deal he stopped becomming a fighter and became a high paid hooker, fight bitch for your millions.  MMA fighters actually fight because there is no big money in it, so you have to prove your worth. Fighters are still hungry, and guys like Fedor who come from 3rd world countries where they probably don't see 1 cent of their earnings (well not that little, but I guarantee their keepers get the better deal), they fight to fight and be the best, not to talk sh*t and parade around like they're best in show.  Farieweather should just take up scrapbooking and not blow all his millions on coke and hookers and STFU for real. 

Damn,Jenn,it's liek that? I gota 5th dan in TKD.And Sam? I think PFB kept fighting dominatingly even after Corrales...he fought Zab and he fought Oscr.Gotta respect da skillz.he popped OSCAR WITH SOME HEAT ON HIS PUNCHES TOO.tHAT'S WHAT SURPRISED ME.i THOUGHT THAT oSCAR WOULD BE THROWING THE CLEARLY MORE POWERFUL PUNCHES,BUT HE DIDN'T.But PBF isn't the GOAT or even theGOAT of this era.I think Pernell Whitaker would have schooled Floyd.Sugar Ray,Mrvin,Hearns? Massacre Floyd.Roberto Duran in his prime? Stomp Floyd.Arron Hawk Pryor might beat Floyd too."Terrible" Terry Norris would give Floyd all he want,despit Terry's "questionable" chin.Remember though...Terry was in there with TRUE POWER PUNCHERS like Julian Jackson (whom Terry was schoolin before hegot caught with that horrific punch that slept him).Floyd's competition has been NOTHING like what Terry has faced.So yeah,all that GOAT talk PBF needs to just shut all the way up about.

Take Lennox Lewis at a comparable age as Fedor,give him 2 years of MMA training,he will DESTROY Fedor.Game over.Dundatta.Same with Holyfield or even Riddick Bowe when he's motivated.Same with a motivated Michael Moorer.Yeah,I said it.Of course,training a boxer in MMA what you will get is a MMA GUY who's SPECIALTY IS BOXING.I concede that point.But you can't name a guy in MMA whom can train boxing for 2 years and not be beyotch-slapped by any Top 50 boxer of comparable weight class.
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Offline Vic Vega

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Re: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2007, 12:22:20 pm »
The Mayweather - De La Hoya fight is a prime example of why I HATE paying $55 to see a boxing match!  It's ridiculous, just dancing around hugging each other.  I choose to watch the UFC on Spike TV...that shyt's real and I'm definitely going to get the Liddell vs. Jackson fight because there won't be any pussyfooting around in the octagon.  Mayweather was right to back off of his statement, I thought it was crazy when I heard him say in on ESPN...each type of fighter would have the edge in their element, following their rules, and there's no way he could take a MMA fighter in the octagon.

I had alot of fun, I'm a pretty big boxing fan, and there was awhole lot of people on the house and I had a great time with the smack talk and I was glad my boy won.  And it wasn't a super classic, but it was pretty good fight.  And I'd pay for that before I'd pay for 2 second UFC fight.

I enjoyed the fight with PBF and DLH too.However,I wouldn't choose between MMA and boxing...I watch both.U know,get my cake and eat it too....that sorta thing.

Kermit Cintron trains 18 months and squares off against Sean Sherk in the Octagon for the UF lightweight title.I pickCintron to win this one,under these circumstanes.Anybody disagree? If so,why? I flat out think that world champ boxers whom cross trained in MMA and fought in the UFC would fare much much better against the MMA champs than vice versa,and I think the boxers would not need more than 2 yearsto perform this feat.i am adamantly of the mind that an MMA GUY-CUM-BOXER would get dropped and mopped by any TOP 50 boxer in their weight class,and therefore I think that boxing has the superior athletes,superior training,and sueprior resources without a doubt.Maybe in another 15 years or so,the story will be diffrent.Maybe.
The Mayweather - De La Hoya fight is a prime example of why I HATE paying $55 to see a boxing match!  It's ridiculous, just dancing around hugging each other.  I choose to watch the UFC on Spike TV...that shyt's real and I'm definitely going to get the Liddell vs. Jackson fight because there won't be any pussyfooting around in the octagon.  Mayweather was right to back off of his statement, I thought it was crazy when I heard him say in on ESPN...each type of fighter would have the edge in their element, following their rules, and there's no way he could take a MMA fighter in the octagon.


The Chuck/Rampage rematch is a setup for Chuck to win.Rampage needs another 2 or 3 fights to get the rust off before he locks up with Chuck again.he won't be intop form for this match,and that'sEXACTLY why the UFC wants this.Make no mistake,the UFC is the main draw to men--but primarily WHITE MEN--ages 18-30 or so.That's what accounts for its explosive popularity...White guys finally have found a combat sport that they dominate and brothas don't.Of course,all of that will change once...IF?...MMA starts doling out million dollar purses.Brothas will take over after that.In the interim,guys like Dana White will use the whtie male demographic and milk it for every dime.Fertitta Bros and Dana are smart men.Respect their bizness savvy,although there are times that I really wish Dana would just SHUT.UP.
PUNK ASS! I DARE Merrifeather (who couldn't even finish off the Golden Boy in one of the WACKEST BOXING MATCHES THIS DECADE) to get into the ring with Chuck Liddell or Rampage!!!! And yeah, we get to use our feet! THAT'S WHAT WE TRAIN TO USE! Don't like it, take your ass to taekwondo, potna!

he won't because he's a beyotch.  Once he got that first multimillion dollar deal he stopped becomming a fighter and became a high paid hooker, fight bitch for your millions.  MMA fighters actually fight because there is no big money in it, so you have to prove your worth. Fighters are still hungry, and guys like Fedor who come from 3rd world countries where they probably don't see 1 cent of their earnings (well not that little, but I guarantee their keepers get the better deal), they fight to fight and be the best, not to talk sh*t and parade around like they're best in show.  Farieweather should just take up scrapbooking and not blow all his millions on coke and hookers and STFU for real. 

Damn,Jenn,it's liek that? I gota 5th dan in TKD.And Sam? I think PFB kept fighting dominatingly even after Corrales...he fought Zab and he fought Oscr.Gotta respect da skillz.he popped OSCAR WITH SOME HEAT ON HIS PUNCHES TOO.tHAT'S WHAT SURPRISED ME.i THOUGHT THAT oSCAR WOULD BE THROWING THE CLEARLY MORE POWERFUL PUNCHES,BUT HE DIDN'T.But PBF isn't the GOAT or even theGOAT of this era.I think Pernell Whitaker would have schooled Floyd.Sugar Ray,Mrvin,Hearns? Massacre Floyd.Roberto Duran in his prime? Stomp Floyd.Arron Hawk Pryor might beat Floyd too."Terrible" Terry Norris would give Floyd all he want,despit Terry's "questionable" chin.Remember though...Terry was in there with TRUE POWER PUNCHERS like Julian Jackson (whom Terry was schoolin before hegot caught with that horrific punch that slept him).Floyd's competition has been NOTHING like what Terry has faced.So yeah,all that GOAT talk PBF needs to just shut all the way up about.

Take Lennox Lewis at a comparable age as Fedor,give him 2 years of MMA training,he will DESTROY Fedor.Game over.Dundatta.Same with Holyfield or even Riddick Bowe when he's motivated.Same with a motivated Michael Moorer.Yeah,I said it.Of course,training a boxer in MMA what you will get is a MMA GUY who's SPECIALTY IS BOXING.I concede that point.But you can't name a guy in MMA whom can train boxing for 2 years and not be beyotch-slapped by any Top 50 boxer of comparable weight class.

Seems to me that the average championship boxer is a hell of a lot more dangerous with his hands that a championship level MMA guy.

Old school example: Carl "the Truth" Williams versus Mike Weaver. Weaver was WELL on his was to being beaten senseless by Carl when Carl dropped his guard. Once. Ol' boy knocked Carl across the ring. He made short work of Williams after that.

If you had THAT kind of destructive power in your fists, You wouldn't even be in MMA, I submit. You'd be boxing.

I fully realize the greater arsenal of the MMA fighter. Maywether wouldn't last 10 minuites in the octagon with Liddel or Rampage.

But put those guys in a boxing ring against a Shane Mosely or a Cotto is a suicide run, pretty much.   
« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 03:41:11 pm by Vic Vega »

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2007, 03:03:37 pm »
The Mayweather - De La Hoya fight is a prime example of why I HATE paying $55 to see a boxing match!  It's ridiculous, just dancing around hugging each other.  I choose to watch the UFC on Spike TV...that shyt's real and I'm definitely going to get the Liddell vs. Jackson fight because there won't be any pussyfooting around in the octagon.  Mayweather was right to back off of his statement, I thought it was crazy when I heard him say in on ESPN...each type of fighter would have the edge in their element, following their rules, and there's no way he could take a MMA fighter in the octagon.

I had alot of fun, I'm a pretty big boxing fan, and there was awhole lot of people on the house and I had a great time with the smack talk and I was glad my boy won.  And it wasn't a super classic, but it was pretty good fight.  And I'd pay for that before I'd pay for 2 second UFC fight.

I enjoyed the fight with PBF and DLH too.However,I wouldn't choose between MMA and boxing...I watch both.U know,get my cake and eat it too....that sorta thing.

Kermit Cintron trains 18 months and squares off against Sean Sherk in the Octagon for the UF lightweight title.I pickCintron to win this one,under these circumstanes.Anybody disagree? If so,why? I flat out think that world champ boxers whom cross trained in MMA and fought in the UFC would fare much much better against the MMA champs than vice versa,and I think the boxers would not need more than 2 yearsto perform this feat.i am adamantly of the mind that an MMA GUY-CUM-BOXER would get dropped and mopped by any TOP 50 boxer in their weight class,and therefore I think that boxing has the superior athletes,superior training,and sueprior resources without a doubt.Maybe in another 15 years or so,the story will be diffrent.Maybe.
The Mayweather - De La Hoya fight is a prime example of why I HATE paying $55 to see a boxing match!  It's ridiculous, just dancing around hugging each other.  I choose to watch the UFC on Spike TV...that shyt's real and I'm definitely going to get the Liddell vs. Jackson fight because there won't be any pussyfooting around in the octagon.  Mayweather was right to back off of his statement, I thought it was crazy when I heard him say in on ESPN...each type of fighter would have the edge in their element, following their rules, and there's no way he could take a MMA fighter in the octagon.


The Chuck/Rampage rematch is a setup for Chuck to win.Rampage needs another 2 or 3 fights to get the rust off before he locks up with Chuck again.he won't be intop form for this match,and that'sEXACTLY why the UFC wants this.Make no mistake,the UFC is the main draw to men--but primarily WHITE MEN--ages 18-30 or so.That's what accounts for its explosive popularity...White guys finally have found a combat sport that they dominate and brothas don't.Of course,all of that will change once...IF?...MMA starts doling out million dollar purses.Brothas will take over after that.In the interim,guys like Dana White will use the whtie male demographic and milk it for every dime.Fertitta Bros and Dana are smart men.Respect their bizness savvy,although there are times that I really wish Dana would just SHUT.UP.
PUNK ASS! I DARE Merrifeather (who couldn't even finish off the Golden Boy in one of the WACKEST BOXING MATCHES THIS DECADE) to get into the ring with Chuck Liddell or Rampage!!!! And yeah, we get to use our feet! THAT'S WHAT WE TRAIN TO USE! Don't like it, take your ass to taekwondo, potna!

he won't because he's a beyotch.  Once he got that first multimillion dollar deal he stopped becomming a fighter and became a high paid hooker, fight bitch for your millions.  MMA fighters actually fight because there is no big money in it, so you have to prove your worth. Fighters are still hungry, and guys like Fedor who come from 3rd world countries where they probably don't see 1 cent of their earnings (well not that little, but I guarantee their keepers get the better deal), they fight to fight and be the best, not to talk sh*t and parade around like they're best in show.  Farieweather should just take up scrapbooking and not blow all his millions on coke and hookers and STFU for real. 

Damn,Jenn,it's liek that? I gota 5th dan in TKD.And Sam? I think PFB kept fighting dominatingly even after Corrales...he fought Zab and he fought Oscr.Gotta respect da skillz.he popped OSCAR WITH SOME HEAT ON HIS PUNCHES TOO.tHAT'S WHAT SURPRISED ME.i THOUGHT THAT oSCAR WOULD BE THROWING THE CLEARLY MORE POWERFUL PUNCHES,BUT HE DIDN'T.But PBF isn't the GOAT or even theGOAT of this era.I think Pernell Whitaker would have schooled Floyd.Sugar Ray,Mrvin,Hearns? Massacre Floyd.Roberto Duran in his prime? Stomp Floyd.Arron Hawk Pryor might beat Floyd too."Terrible" Terry Norris would give Floyd all he want,despit Terry's "questionable" chin.Remember though...Terry was in there with TRUE POWER PUNCHERS like Julian Jackson (whom Terry was schoolin before hegot caught with that horrific punch that slept him).Floyd's competition has been NOTHING like what Terry has faced.So yeah,all that GOAT talk PBF needs to just shut all the way up about.

Take Lennox Lewis at a comparable age as Fedor,give him 2 years of MMA training,he will DESTROY Fedor.Game over.Dundatta.Same with Holyfield or even Riddick Bowe when he's motivated.Same with a motivated Michael Moorer.Yeah,I said it.Of course,training a boxer in MMA what you will get is a MMA GUY who's SPECIALTY IS BOXING.I concede that point.But you can't name a guy in MMA whom can train boxing for 2 years and not be beyotch-slapped by any Top 50 boxer of comparable weight class.

Seems to me that the average championship boxer is a hell of a lot more dangerous with his hands that a championship level MMA guy.

Old school example: Carl Lewis versus Mike Weaver. Weaver was WELL on his was to being beaten senseless by Carl when Carl dropped his guard. Once. Ol' boy knocked Lewis across the ring. He made short work of Lewis after that.

If you had THAT kind of destructive power in your fists, You wouldn't even be in MMA, I submit. You'd be boxing.

I fully realize the greater arsenal of the MMA fighter. Maywether wouldn't last 10 minuites in the octagon with Liddel or Rampage.

But put those guys in a boxing ring against a Shane Mosely or a Cotto is a suicide run, pretty much.   

Daaang! I didn't even see that Carl Lewis/Weaver fight! I don't even know who Carl Lewis IS,lol. I thought you were talking about the TRACK LEGEND when I read Carl's name.Good lookin out,that's a nice point you've made there.

Mayweather is 150 pounds max.He couldn't even make the 205 weight class.Roy Jones Jr. can,though.Give RJJ 2 years of MMA training,and it's over for both Chuck AND Rampage.Holyfield could make 205,and at a comparable age Holyfield would likewise destroy Chuck and Rampage...in MMA...if given 2 years of training or so.

Mayweather WOULD beat Sherk--IMHO--if given 1-2 years of MMA training.Remember how Mirko Cro Cop started wrecking shop in PRIDE--this isPRIDE,where the BEST FIGHTERS IN MMA ARE--with only 2 years of MMA training? Mirko was phasing out of K-1 because he simply couldn't take a tourney title,and he kept being KO'd by Hoost (no shame there,MR. PERFECT Ernest Hoost beat everybody pretty much,especially in his prime) and he was getting injured more in K-1? Floyd is in his prime,he's perfectly healthy,he's millions richer,he's clearly the superior strategist and clearly the superior athlete...he'd follow the kickboxer paradigm,but with his millions he'd construct an MMA camp the likes of which has never been seen.His learning curve would be accelerated far beyond that displayed by the kickboxers,lead by our own waaay too often forgotten but truly revolutionary and skillful MAURICE SMITH.Remember,it was our own Mo Smith whom gave credibility to strikers in MMA by first KO'in CONAN SILVERIA and then dethroning MARK THE HAMMER COLEMAN...

...and he'd trained in grappling with first Ken and then Frank Shamrock for only 18 months.This is FJS' testimony to me while we trained in THE RAW CENTER for the short period of time that Frank Juarez Shamrock (FJS) was in Los Angeles.Maurice was not in his kickboxing prime even back then...he ws 35 or 36.Back then.He nuetralized Randy Couture's ground offensives the first time they met,and he lost his title in a fight that was CLEARLY a draw.(Pedro Rizzo gotrobbed the first time he fought Randy,as well).

Floyd would take all of that--prolly have Maurice in his training camp--and either cleanly outpoint Sean Sherk or knock him out.Yes,I said KNOCK.SEAN.OUT.Forthe fight with  DLH,our boi PBF was sparring with lightheavies.Boxers hit waaay harder than MMA guys...when they're wearing 16 oz. gloves.MMA USES THESE BABY 4 OR 5 OUNCE gloves,and if PBF used them (and didn't break his hand from hitting so hard,lol)  knockout power would be granted to PBF,as PBF is used to the high powered,high velocity punches of boxers thrown by world-class boxers.Sean isn't. But PBF would have to train MMA to do it,otherwise he'd get mopped up.
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Offline Vic Vega

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Re: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2007, 03:40:14 pm »
Williams not Lewis. Williams. Sorry about that, S.I., all.

Dang senior moments. Where's my Ginko Bilobo?  ;D

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Re: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2007, 03:49:44 pm »
Kermit Cintron trains 18 months and squares off against Sean Sherk in the Octagon for the UF lightweight title.I pickCintron to win this one,under these circumstanes.Anybody disagree?

I do. It takes a lot longer than 18 months to give devastating kicks and grappling that doesn't look like two dogs in heat. Look how long it takes to get a black belt in BJJ. If one guy is training, then the other guy is as well. I'd much rather be the martial artist. 18 months can put power in a punch, but it can't make a world class grappler if your name isn't BJ Penn.

I will say that a boxer versus an MA in a stand-up, toe to toe fight is no contest, naturally. I have nothing but love for boxers, and would love to cross train in purely boxing.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 03:51:29 pm by Jenn »

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Re: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2007, 05:50:12 pm »
Kermit Cintron trains 18 months and squares off against Sean Sherk in the Octagon for the UF lightweight title.I pickCintron to win this one,under these circumstanes.Anybody disagree?


I do. It takes a lot longer than 18 months to give devastating kicks and grappling that doesn't look like two dogs in heat. Look how long it takes to get a black belt in BJJ. If one guy is training, then the other guy is as well. I'd much rather be the martial artist. 18 months can put power in a punch, but it can't make a world class grappler if your name isn't BJ Penn.

I will say that a boxer versus an MA in a stand-up, toe to toe fight is no contest, naturally. I have nothing but love for boxers, and would love to cross train in purely boxing.


I don't think it takes that long to be that effective in kickboxing OR grappling.Again,I have precedents for this:

Grappling? How about Lloyd Irvin.http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:0-HmwTrHhesJ:www.lloydirvin.com/adult/bjj/index.html+Lloyd+Irvin%27s+Grappling+BluePrint&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us.Floyd's people would DEFINITELY have him on staff in order to ensure that Floyd or even Cintron had the maximum chance of acquiring knowledge of and defending against subgrappling.Kickboxing doesn't take 18 months to impart power in your kicks...especially when you're the high level athlete that Floyd is.I remember that I was dropping teens and causing grown men pain with my kicks..when I was eleven years old.Learning karate.I have trained teens to inflict knockout level kicks in under 4 months.Knockout.One of my kids...a 14 year old boy,barely weighing 114 pounds...got mismatched by a promoter trying to hurt my kids and discredit our school in a tournament when I wasn't on hand to half the debacle.My 14 year old White Belt faced a 25 year old,impressively muscled Blue Belt in a point sparring match under old skool rules.A lot more contact and a much broader array of techniques--like tackles,flips,and boxing--are allowed under the old skool 1980's point fighting systems.Full on old skool spinning backfists are allowed,not that "controlled" backfist which means no power and very little applicability.My kid lost the fight by two points,and got second prize.The 25 year old man WON the fight...and got taken to the hospital for bruised ribs because of my kid's sidekick. We had a girl nicknamed Black Widow because this chocolate sistah was murdering guys left and right,punches AND kicks.We had a tall beautiful sistah nicknamed THE AXE whose axe kick,side kick and roundhouse kick produced so many knocked out and stunned opponents that people wouldn't spar her unless she didn't use those kicks...or she was passed on to the brown/black division.Even though she was only White Belt in my system.These results weren't atypical.If you don't have some form of debilitating injury,I can take anyone on this board and impart KO power to your kicks inside of 6 months...and you could have NEVER PLAYED A SPORT IN YOUR LIFE PRIOR TO TRAINING WITH ME.

And I'm not half the trainer that these other guys I've mentioned are.Grappling? Floyd will hire guys like Lloyd Irvin,Jacare (http://youtube.com/watch?v=gXM9J10IfSw) ,and Rhadi Ferguson (supah sicc Judo man,only man in history to compete in both the Olympics AND the ADCC.Incredibly knowledgeable about training...so knowledgeable that it was himself and his training partner and business partner createdthe workout regime for the actors on 300 THE MOVIE as well.  http://youtube.com/watch?v=iOnO45oDeNIhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=FM-HkxsLRqwhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=Stp0sgYGXHc).Kickboxing? Maurice Smith. http://youtube.com/watch?v=5cZY5I8BkRE  http://youtube.com/watch?v=v5tCLLrkn7g) "Tokey" Hill (who trains Michael Mcdonald,"The Black Sniper" http://www.blacksniper.com/) and guys from the Vos Gym.Wrestling? The coaches from the Olympic wrestling teams in the USA and probably other places like Farid Mansurov (gold medalist Greco-Roman wrestling,Athens Olympics) and his crew,as well as guys from our own Olympic Training Center for freestyle wrestling.He'd get them together,get strength,nutrition,and conditioning guys together.They'd spend 2 months or so just DESIGNING Floyd's program and working out the kinks between training coaches,training partners,and the like.Floyd would come in the next month and work would begin.15 to 21 months later,Floyd would emerge as a fearsome force that the LW division in MMA has never seen before and couldn't withstand.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 06:21:57 pm by supreme illuminati »
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Re: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2007, 11:51:22 pm »
I don't think it takes that long to be that effective in kickboxing OR grappling.Again,I have precedents for this:

And they mean nothing - personal experiences don't hang as any sort of proof. It's ridiculous to assume that a good boxer would automatically become a good kickboxer and ESPECIALLY  a good grappler. We've all seen damn good MAs not be able to hack it in boxing, and vice versa. The VAST majority of LEGIT mixed martial artists train for much longer than 18 months before they're considered legitimate threats to other established MMAs. We're not talking about Joe Blow on the street corner who could get his balls ripped off by a properly trained 12-year-old girl - we're talking about fighters against other fighters. I'm suffering through this season of "Ultimate Fighter", and it shows clearly that most of these guys are n00bz. The fights are lackluster and either ridiculously lopsided or l-o-n-g and dull. It takes years to cultivate your craft. Otherwise, you'd move up in rank every time you learned a new maneuver.

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Re: WORLD CHAMP BOXER V UFC CHAMP
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2007, 11:07:06 am »
I don't think it takes that long to be that effective in kickboxing OR grappling.Again,I have precedents for this:


And they mean nothing - personal experiences don't hang as any sort of proof. It's ridiculous to assume that a good boxer would automatically become a good kickboxer and ESPECIALLY  a good grappler. We've all seen damn good MAs not be able to hack it in boxing, and vice versa. The VAST majority of LEGIT mixed martial artists train for much longer than 18 months before they're considered legitimate threats to other established MMAs. We're not talking about Joe Blow on the street corner who could get his balls ripped off by a properly trained 12-year-old girl - we're talking about fighters against other fighters. I'm suffering through this season of "Ultimate Fighter", and it shows clearly that most of these guys are n00bz. The fights are lackluster and either ridiculously lopsided or l-o-n-g and dull. It takes years to cultivate your craft. Otherwise, you'd move up in rank every time you learned a new maneuver.


Hmmm...perhaps I'm missing your point when you are referring to "personal experiences". I can't think of a single event in our lifetimes which isn't a personal experience.I also think that you're comparing groups with an inferior performance wavelength than I am,which RADICALLY changes the groups themselves: I'm comparing WORLD CHAMPION BOXERS WITH MUCHO DOLLARS IN THEIR FIGHTING PRIME fighting MMA'S TOP CHAMPIONS.Not just a good boxer trying his hand at other fighting disiciplines.The difference is sharp and crucial between the two,as I am talking about boxers whom have reached the pinnacle achievement in their weight class--A GENUINE CHAMP--whereas you're talking about a boxer whom is "merely" good.These boxers almost unanimously and unquestionably already possess superior striking firepower,superior experience against better trained and better seasoned opposition for a longer period of time than their MMA counterparts,superior upper body defense and lateral movement,and the capacity to withstand a superior blow.These boxers are young and proud and fiery and hungry with superior resources to boot.

The biggest thing hampering us MMA folks is that the maximal training paradigm has yet to be established.We are still questing and experimenting and seeking that universal training methodology that can be used as a base from which to build personalized training methods.The MMA athlete is much more open to the threats of overtraining,under sleeping,improper nutrition,and lack of sleep than his/her boxing counterparts are.Boxers have a century of boxing training tradition to fall back on...their methods have been constantly refined in the crucible of combat and honed to an extremely reliable sense of efficiency.Even though MMA has been around for approximately the same time internationally as boxing has,its organization into a full fledged sport with appropriate accoutrements.

Again,there is MMA precedence for the ascendancy of high-performance strikers in MMA.Maurice Smith proved this back around ten years ago or so when he took out both CONAN SILVERIA as well as MARK THE HAMMER COLEMAN back when MMA was dominated by grapplers.Pedro Rizzo did it again.Vovchanchin was primarily a striker too.MIrko Cro Cop,Vanderlei Silva, Mark Hunt and Chuck Liddell are simply the latest strikers to take advantage of the opportunity to learn takedown and subdefense in order to better press their striking advantage. In fact, Mark Hunt did it in FAR LESS than 2 years.He basically trained a few months after leavin K-1.He's already proven that you don't need world class subgrappling and wrestling to excel in MMA,and he has done so in devastating fashion within a far shorter time span than I am generously giving.Carter Williams will likely be the latest example.

The adjustment in the boxer's stance to the kickboxer's stance is MINIMAL,I'm certain that you know this from experience,Jenn.If you didn't know this from experience,then you wouldn't be able to launch a snappy jab while still being able to fire a kick right behind it.If you and I can do it,world champion boxers will do it sooner and better.It's that simple.Once the adjustment in the fighting stance is made,it's simply a matter of developing familiarity with and knockout power in the kicks...primarily the front kick and roundhouse kick,as these are the kicks that people new to kicking develope proficiency in fastest.Again,this paradigm is universal in the kicking martial arts...even old skool boxing had it before the advent of gloves...and the kiciking science is something that can be rapidly picked up via quality training and quality reps.


Did you mention that it's ridiculous to assume that a good boxer would become a good kickboxer and ESPECIALLY a good grappler? Well,my statement was that the boxer would primarily become proficient in the "sprawl n brawl" method,become adept at getting back to his/her feet,work the guard and subdefense well,and then get back to his/her feet and KO the MMA guy.The "sprawl n brawl" method is quite popular in MMA,especially as MMA is tilting toward more standup due to the ignorance of USA's general population about grappling.This plays RIGHT INTO THE BOXER'S HANDS.Literally.But even if "sprawl n brawl" wasn't so popular...again,we have plenty of precedence set by less talented kickboxers whom WERE NOT IN THEIR FIGHTING PRIME and did precisely what you said was ridiculous.Do you think that Maurice held off Mark the Hammer because his guard ISN'T good? Do you think Pedro Rizzo got robbed when he fought Couture because his guard and clinch ISN'T good? Chuck Liddell didn't kick Randy Couture not a once,but instead KO'd him by using footwork and fistwork...THE HALLMARK OF THE BOXER.And Chuck is nowhere near the fistmeister that champion boxes are.The boxers would simply take the kickboxing paradigm and radically improve upon it.

Even boxers of quality whom were fighting within the last 6-8 years whom have trained for LESS THAN 2 YEARS in MMA and WHOM AREN'T IN THEIR PRIME will STILL give a MMA guy everything he wants,and generally knock them out.Perhaps you weren't aware of this.Again..there is proof:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=qANUBXVewXU. Jeremy is not in his prime but started knocking out and beating MMA guys with less than 18 months of training. http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:X6SRqYoPinMJ:starbulletin.com/2007/02/08/sports/story10.html+Jeremy+Williams+boxer+trained+mix+martial+arts&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us  This example is NOT atypical. Even boxers quite a bit passed their prime have generally superior defense and striking ability than their MMA or kickboxing contempararies whom ARE in their prime.The distinction being made in my example is facing QUALITY BOXERS against CHAMPION MMA GUYS when the boxers aren't older than Methuselah and haven't become more accustomed to toilet rings than boxing rings...and after the boxers have had intensive MMA training lasting about 18 months. Even when these boxers lose,they give a spirited effort against the MMA champ...whereas their MMA contemporaries would get slaughtered now matter how you slice it were they to try their hand at boxing in 2 years or less after training for boxing only.

This means that boxing has superior athletes in greater numbers,which is to be expected due to their century of tradition,lavish cash payoffs and superior comparative salary even at the lower levels when contrasted with MMA and any other combat sport.The draw is the cash and the fame.MMA simply doesn't have either the payoff or breadth and depth of quality athletes.
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