Author Topic: Hip Hop vs. America  (Read 42507 times)

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3067
    • View Profile
Re: Hip Hop vs. America
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2007, 02:31:38 pm »
Unbelievable, thanks for the link BrotherKomrade. I would love to see someone with this knowledge get on stage with Crouch and roast him to a fine crisp. Slapping and punching individuals who are critical of  your work; with his standard of "professionalism" and "proper behavior" Crouch shouldnt've been able to walk off that stage alive given his comments about rappers.

To your other point, membership should have its privileges, Hudlin members should have reserved seats at Hip Hop vs America the sequel.

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3067
    • View Profile
Re: Hip Hop vs. America
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2007, 03:05:11 pm »
Did anyone have an opportunity to view the Senate hearings today? I have been hearing summaries about the testimony of Dyson, Banner and Master P but the nature of the descriptions has been varied.

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3067
    • View Profile
Re: Hip Hop vs. America
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2007, 06:36:22 pm »
I just watched the show and it was tremendous! While I didn't see the level of exchange that I anticipated between Dyson and George, the passionate expressions of everyone on the panel more than made up for it.

The most intriguing point of the discussion came when the former Essence editor called for rappers to "Stop riding the fence". This comment is indicative of the fundamental problem many critics of Rap have, and that is the inability to see the world in shades of gray. In her mind, a rapper can't make a "conscious" single followed by a "gangster" one because then they are being fraudulent and disingenious. While it may be easier for her to run her anti-rap campaign by pigeonholding rappers in certain categories; it is not going to translate into rappers defining themselves by her standards.

Offline Michael Fisher

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Hip Hop vs. America
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2007, 07:57:17 pm »
Well, I also just saw the show. 

There was a problem.

No one asked the first question that should be asked anywhere and everywhere...

WHO IS IN CHARGE?

If one can not identify who is in charge all else is just confusing.


Next. Folks were talking about violence.

Violence is not the issue.  The issue is how violence is used.

Public Enemy back in the day used plenty of violence in it's imagery.

Gangsta Hip Hop is not about violence.

It's about the bad guys mistreating black folk in their imagery and being rewarded with money and sex.

« Last Edit: September 25, 2007, 08:14:48 pm by Michael Fisher »

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3067
    • View Profile
Re: Hip Hop vs. America
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2007, 08:10:14 pm »
We'll see if those questions get asked in the final installment. I am sure Chuck D will change the tone of the conversation.

Offline Curtis Metcalf

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
  • One never knows, do one?
    • View Profile
Avatars, etc.
« Reply #65 on: September 26, 2007, 08:16:53 am »
Quick message from your friendly, neighborhood Administrator:
I moved the posts about uploading pictures and avatars to the Forum Requests thread over here.
Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline JAXN

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 225
    • View Profile
Re: Hip Hop vs. America
« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2007, 09:59:06 am »
it was ok i guess. I would've loved to hear more from Dyson. I didn't understand some of Nelly's answers and i guess we are lucky that T.I. was on the stage instead of being in the streets.  There were interesting points brought up by other analysts, i look forward to watching it tonight. Hopefully Chuck and MC Lyte will add more to the discussion..i wonder what superhead and melyssa have to comment on?

Offline Mastrmynd

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 8172
  • Check my new site www.top20takeover.VVCRadio.com
    • View Profile
    • http://arvellpoe.atspace.com/
Re: Hip Hop vs. America
« Reply #67 on: September 26, 2007, 10:02:47 am »
great show.
great great show!

i just got make from the doctor/hospital... i might talk about it later, but i'm okay.
i'm groggy and my wife is only giving me 5 minutes to be online.

this really needs to be a series.
a traveling townhall meeting of sorts...all cross the across... from nyc to the atl to wesside and midwest... townhalls everywhere.

the editing was nice, but it was definitely better than last sundays meet the faith.


i was sooooooo totally feeling nelly.
that dude was heated and i know all he could think about was his sister... and how he's gettin' a bad rap for the tip drill video.

"so u mean to tell me that you watched 4 minutes of the video and then was disturbed when i got the credit card swipe? ... on a show that comes on late night and with a parental guidance msg?"

hahahahha... get 'em nelly.

last but not least, i need MORE michael e. dyson and nelson george.
these guys ARE hip hop and i love 'em.

reggie and stevie hill... make this a show and have dyson and george there all the time.

shucks, even P impressed me.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 10:13:02 am by Mastrmynd »


Listen to my entertaining radio show, "The Takeover: Top 20 Countdown" at www.top20takeover.VVCRadio.com.

Right on to the real and death to the fakers!  Peace out!

Offline True Father Sankofa

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
  • The maker the owner the cream of the planet earth
    • View Profile
    • True's myspace page
Re: Hip Hop vs. America
« Reply #68 on: September 26, 2007, 03:31:56 pm »
Hip Hop vs America or America vs Hip Hop: A Tale of Two Trials
Hip Hop vs America or America vs Hip Hop:

A Tale of Two Trials

by Min. Paul Scott

Hip Hop was on trial twice last night. One was Hip Hop
vs America Pt. 1, a prerecorded attempt by Black
Entertainment Television to appease its viewers after
years of complaints which came to a broil after last
Summer's ill advised "Hot Ghetto Mess" Reality Show.
The other was "America vs Hip Hop," sponsored by the
Subcommittee of Commerce Trade and Consumer Protection
of the Committee on Energy and Commerce . The first
one was catered towards a predominately young, black
teeny bopper audience who had just finished watching
videos on "106 and Park" and wanted to to see if Nelly
had gotten any new gold teeth since his last CD. The
other was for the rest of mainstream America who have
grown sick and tired of a bunch of young black "thugs"
ruining "their" country.

The BET special was pretty much what you would expect
from the company, a weak attempt at self criticism
with bumpin' videos and applause signs. Perhaps Part 2
will get "deep" but Part 1 did little to elevate the
"rap" beyond the realm of where it has been since C.
Delores Tucker dissed Pac back in the early 90's.

"You don't understand Hip Hop!"

"And you, young man, need to pull your pants up!"

You still have the same panelists from the older
generation trying to to be a parent/buddy friend to 30
somethin' year old millionaire Hip Hop artists. Dr.
Michael Eric Dyson did the Biggie rap thing that he
has been showcasing since the mid 90's and rappers,
Nelly and T.I. proved once again that loud "don't"
make it right.

T.I. kinda lost me with the whole "I have to trick my
fans into learning" logic. (or lack thereof)

Not to mention his brilliant theory that the problem
with Hip Hop is "you got fake thugs rappin' about
being real thugs who never were thugs instead of real
rappers rappin' about being real...."

Oh, never mind.

And then Nelly came with the "it's not fair to judge
me based on a four minute rap video with credit cards
being slid through a black woman's booty" defense.

What else can we judge you by Nelly? Your PH.D
dissertation on "The Juxtaposition of Capitalism and
Marxist Leninism?"

Down the way in DC, "From Imus to Industry: The
Business of Stereotypes and Degrading Images,"
hearing called together by Senator Bobby Rush featured
Master P and David Banner along with activists and
industry big wigs such as Edgar Broffman and Doug
Morris.

Needless to say, the theme of the hearing was
problematic in itself.

Although Hip Hop activists have raised this issue over
the last five months, it cannot be overstated that
this current national discussion on the state of Hip
Hop is a diversionary tactic in the aftermath of the
Michael Richards/Don Imus controversies to take the
focus off of institutionalized racism and white male
bigotry and replace it with a focus on dirty dancin'
and baggy pants.

While the efforts of former Black Panther Bobby Rush
may be commended, would his time not have been better
served making sure that a thorough congressional
hearing on Reparations for the descendants of enslaved
Africans takes place. Or hearings on COINTELPRO, for
which groups like the Jericho Project have been
advocating that could result in the exoneration of his
former Panther comrades and other political prisoners
still locked in jail and in exile ?

Also, it must be also noted that if we look at the
emphasis that America has put on Hip Hop compared with
the coverage of stories like the Jena 6 and the black
woman that was tortured in West VA, the comparison is
troubling.

What is unfortunate is that many of us do not see this
current Hip Hop controversy in socio-political terms.
While the kiddie converation on BET may have had a
better looking stage, the meeting in DC could set
public policy for generations to come.

Did anybody think to ask where the Hip Hop discussion
fit in the agenda of the Subcommittee of Commerce
Trade and Consumer Protection on a highly
compartmentalized Capitol Hill?

Did anyone notice that the committee is in charge of
dealing with some Homeland Security related matters?
So which part of Hip Hop are the feds really concerned
about; the "misogynist" lyrics of a Nelly or the
inflammatory political rap of a M1 of Dead Prez?

http://energycommerce.house.gov/

At the end of the day , were we any closer to
improving Hip Hop than were were before the BET
program and congressional hearing?

BET promised another earth shakin' sequel to Tuesday
night's show (So what are they gonna do for a grand
finale, have TI punch Rev. Al in the mouth?) and the
people in DC came to the consensus that censorship
ain't cool, def, or funky fresh.

Is there really a difference between gangsta rapper,
"Killa T" grabbin' his crotch and yellin' "I'm just
keepin' it real for the homies in tha hood" and Viacom
head honcho Phillipe Dauman sitting before Congress
and saying with a straight face, "We have a
responsibility to speak authentically to our viewers
?"

What we need is a clear analysis of the Hip Hop
problem based on facts and not prejudiced by political
bamboozlin' and hero worshippin' of rappers.

With a clear analysis we could raise the level of
consciousness of the Hip Hop connosiers so high that
neither Hip Hop hearings nor censorship would even be
necessary.

Min. Paul Scott is a writer and activist in Durham NC.
For more info visit http://www.hiphopstrikesback.com
(919)451-8283 info@nowarningshotsfired.com
"Don't count the days, make the days count"-Muhammad Ali

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3067
    • View Profile
Re: Hip Hop vs. America
« Reply #69 on: September 26, 2007, 03:37:40 pm »
So what "clear analysis" is Scott offering to provide on the issues involved? I don't believe the condescending and dismissive tone used to describe the BET show was indicative of "clear analysis' whatsoever.

Offline True Father Sankofa

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
  • The maker the owner the cream of the planet earth
    • View Profile
    • True's myspace page
Re: Hip Hop vs. America
« Reply #70 on: September 26, 2007, 03:40:03 pm »
Ok, my thoughts.  First off what Crouch was saying was right and exact.  We have historically been known to change illnesses in society for the better.  Nelly, bless his soul was using excuses of what the power was and  how to be in harmony with it.  What happened to fight the Power?

It's too bad we don't have many True Fathers in the game, peace to NYOil and the few that are though, most cats who supposedly "hip hop" really just don't give a f*ck. There are responsible people who realize the impact and influence this culture has on kids whose parents are not present and are challenging the artist to be more accountable and I have no problem with it. To me it's more of a crusade against ignorance. I pretty much said all I felt on this in the Hip Hop Identity Crisis thread in the Art of Rhyme link I posted earlier. Cats need to be educated on hip hop primarily, that term is used so loosely by heads who don't know how and why this way of life was birthed.

T.I. said it best "It's not that deep, we just having fun." Babies are dieing over this hip hop ish, but it's not that deep? There is a problem and some people need to be set straight. Those that are poisoning the minds of the youth need to be run from amongst us, that's how I feel. Because a culture moves as one toward one common cause, if one is detrimental towards that, be gone!  This culture was not birthed to glorify genocide or disrespect women but magazines that supposedly come in the name of hip hop will throw an artists doing just that on the front cover.  They will get heavy rotation on "so called hip hop" video outlets.

I would just say look at hip hop as your child and then you can see why some attack it the way they do because there are some things you will not let your kids get away with and if some artists are tired of being attacked then they need to grow the f*ck up. Hip hop is Moses's people wildin' out at the base of Mt. Zion and when Moses comes down with the word to check em, they aint trying to hear it, and that's why it's in the state it's in. Like Bobbito said in the intro to the show last night, "hip hop peaked.........a long time ago" That was when it was used as a tool for cultural change and not just to make money. All these heads these days care about is these lil green pieces of paper with slave masters faces on it. Where are the moral values and principles? If you don't want knuckleheads sliding credit cards between your daughters butt cheeks, then why do it to sistas yourself? It's not that complex.  All in the name of entertainment right, that's entertainment.................chicken george shuckin and jivin' muthaf*ckaz!

Cousin Jeff is cool, but Toure's a dumb ass and the worst hip hop journalist ever, just check some of his work with Rolling Stone. This is the same fool that bragged about so called ending Public Enemy's career with an album review.  So many questions that need to be addressed that they have not asked yet, hopefully part 2 and 3 will.  I took off work today for them.  These rappers really need to stop playin themselves



PEACE
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 05:11:24 pm by True Father 7 »
"Don't count the days, make the days count"-Muhammad Ali

Offline True Father Sankofa

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
  • The maker the owner the cream of the planet earth
    • View Profile
    • True's myspace page
Re: Hip Hop vs. America
« Reply #71 on: September 26, 2007, 03:46:11 pm »
"Don't count the days, make the days count"-Muhammad Ali

Offline Mastrmynd

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 8172
  • Check my new site www.top20takeover.VVCRadio.com
    • View Profile
    • http://arvellpoe.atspace.com/
Re: Hip Hop vs. America
« Reply #72 on: September 26, 2007, 05:19:17 pm »
thanx for the enlightenment True Father.

Part 2 of HHvAmerica is even better and it just started.

I'm glad Nelly finally got to express himself about the tip drill video and his sister.  god rest her soul.

Reg, this really does need to move on beyond 2 episodes.

More please?


Listen to my entertaining radio show, "The Takeover: Top 20 Countdown" at www.top20takeover.VVCRadio.com.

Right on to the real and death to the fakers!  Peace out!

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3067
    • View Profile
Re: Hip Hop vs. America
« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2007, 09:14:30 pm »
I enjoyed Episode 2 as it provided an opportunity to expand on the issues of sexism and violence and Hip Hop's responsibility in presenting those issues in the music. While I was ready to give BET an A for the series, I have to make it an A- minus since they didn't air the best episode.

Episode 3 was by far the best of the shows. Its focus on the generation gap between the Civil Rights movement and present day rappers was not really addressed in the 2 prior episodes. It is the friction that is generated within this seperation which I believe is at the crux of the debate we see today. The civil rights generation for the most part looks at the Hip-Hop generation as lazy, criminal, foul mouthed ingrates who dropped the torch. In turn, The Hip- Hop generation views the civil rights generation as hypocrites who failed to provide leadership and now absolve themselves from any culpability in the ills that exist in our community.

While I'm sure BET wanted to generate traffic on BET.COM by airing the 3rd episode there, they really should've taken advantage of the audience that is drawn in for The Wire and aired the 3rd episode tomorrow.

Offline Michael Fisher

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Hip Hop vs. America
« Reply #74 on: September 27, 2007, 01:16:45 am »
Ok. Saw all three segments. 

Everybody was beating around the bush for all three episodes.  "society puts us in a box", "the label", "I signed a contract with the record company", "I think crack was put out there on purpose", "if I don't sell records, I won't have a job", "Universal didn't want Nelly doing this program"


Well, WHO?

We all know WHO.  Spit it out.  Everyone of these folks on those panels is/was f*****n scared sh*tless to say WHO.

Who is "society".  Who is that a code word for?  Who is "the label"? Who is that a code word for?  WHO?

Corporations are not buildings and furniture. They are made up of people and they are run by people.

So everybody on those panels knows who WHO is.  Who is in charge, but no one wants to say it.

Well, we can't solve a problem by being scared.  I understand why we are scared and I am the first one to admit that I m scared.  But f**k it.  At some point it's got to be a thing of Justice or... Justice.  There is no alternative.

Personally, I'm tired of living in an unjust society run by white folks who decided that they need to be racist and demean, damage, disrespect, and out right cause death among our people.  And the entertainment industry is the epitome of that.

What we need to do is use whatever resources we've been made available by these racist people for whatever  reason and use them in a positive manner until these resources are taken away from us.  At the same time we have to try to develop our own resources.

Because, for one at thing at least, music and entertainment is to us what oil is for the Arabs.  Only we don't control it. About time we do.

http://assaultonblacksanity.blogspot.com/2007/05/our-greatest-natural-resource-occupied.html

Reginald, let me know what you think of my proposal.

Later, folks,

I'm out.



« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 02:07:08 am by Michael Fisher »