Is Bill Cosby right?

[Open palm]

But the bottom line is, however you feel about that genocide, it has NOTHING at all to do with anything happening in the US. Literally.

Yeah, I laughed when Jamie Foxx made that retort in Collateral. "Man, I don't know any Rwandans".

I DIDN'T EXPECT YOU TO, PAL! 

Anyway, Bill Cosby and his fellow co-author were on Larry King Live over a week ago. They made some important points and I hope it helps people become more invigorated to act.

[Jenn]

So, you know, bite me.

You better ask your old lady for that.

[Redjack]

So, you know, bite me.

You better ask your old lady for that.

you kill me.

[zeraze]

Since Larry King's Interview with Bill Cosby was repeated recently, I thought this commentary by Cosby Show actor Joseph Phillips was appropriate:

http://bookerrising.blogspot.com/2007/10/joseph-c-phillips-commentary-hating-on.html

This excerpt really struck me:

"High rates of out of wedlock births and the decline in marriage are real and provide a negative drag on our success - on our American success. Oddly enough, those most strident in their criticism are the very same folks -- ideologically speaking -- largely to blame for the current state of affairs. It was progressives and new liberals that in the late 1960's and early 70's proclaimed American cultural institutions and mores rife with the stain of racism thus rendering them illegitimate. The counter culture revolution would not simply eradicate oppression but would dismantle all of American culture as well, rebuilding it from the ground up. Gone went traditional notions of sexual propriety. Gone went the idea of gender roles and traditional ideals of marriage and family. Gone also went the faith in man's capacity to rule himself. Black authenticity was now defined by a cultural revolutionary defiance. Alas, the baby truly went out the window with the bath water. The progressive mantra has changed very little over time. When individual behavior is criticized, they respond that the real culprit is white racism manifested in the entire American system. Deconstruction remains the call. What remains unclear is how the white racist power structure prevents one from engaging in responsible sexual and cultural behavior. George Bush and Dick Cheney haven't a thing to do with a man honoring his woman with marriage, raising his children from within the home or parents insisting on academic excellence. Progressives would have us believe that men are powerless without experts trained in our finest universities working with government to deliver us from the evil of individualism. Cosby is the latest in a long line of folks that have maintained that our current trials are not due to systemic racism, but a culture that makes excuses for irresponsible behavior, thus absolving individuals from any culpability for their circumstances, and subsequently draining them of any power to change their lives."

And more: "This is the inherent strength of Cosby's message and the weakness of those that would shout him down. Cosby is saying to people - the very people progressives claim to be protecting - that they have power, that the changes they seek begin with the choices they make. Indeed, Cosby points out that it is adherence to the traditional mores of family, faith and idealism that made us strong, that provided the soldiers of character and conscience that fought and won the civil rights battles of the 50's and 60's. Moreover, these same values will provide the moral and cultural foundation for the warriors of the next generation."

zeraze

[Redjack]

And the church say, "Amen."

[Tanksleyd]

Self Destructive? Yes, of course. It hurts me seeing these 21st century kids stretching my 1970's "Freedom" into disrespect for basic structure, like turning signals on a car. Yes, of course the hippies from the 60's who hung on to the 70's, even then saw it as their place to give money, if there was no man in the house. Even then they could only see us with the yardstick of silky hair, and worse yet it was lead by women who when it came to hair had longer aspirations.

Don't ask me why but I always put the year at 1968: Bobby and Martin. A wrong turn was taken in that year.

I often like to remind people that Acid Rock came before Gangster Rap...There we are again, in second place again and we invented Rock and Roll!

Too funny.

In the history of this world, this humankind, just what is perfect...Silky hair?

***********************

System or Rhythm

[Curtis Metcalf]

White May Be Might, But It's Not Always Right

By Khalil G. Muhammad
Sunday, December 9, 2007; Page B03

Recently I showed my college students a YouTube clip of Bill Cosby's and Alvin Poussaint's appearance on "The Oprah Winfrey Show." After hearing Cosby plead for poor blacks to embrace their parenting responsibilities, many of the students said they wished their parents had followed his advice. They regretted that some of their peers had done poorly in school, abused drugs and alcohol, and run afoul of the law. These problems, they agreed, might have been avoided with more supervision at home.

They might have been the perfect audience for a Cosby town-hall lecture on the dangers of self-destructive values in black America. They might also have been perfect illustrations of the growing "values gap" between poor and middle-class blacks described in a widely cited recent Pew Research Center poll.

Except almost all my students are white.

Cosby and the recent Pew study are the latest in a long finger-wagging tradition of instructing poor blacks to lift themselves up by their bootstraps and reject pathologically "black" values. Today, rap culture is usually presented as Exhibit A, but strains of the same argument have cropped up for more than a century. If blacks would just get their act together, this old story goes, all the social inequalities between them and the rest of society would disappear.

...

Khalil G. Muhammad is an assistant professor of history at Indiana University and the author of the forthcoming "The Condemnation of Blackness: Ideas about Race and Crime in the Making of Modern Urban America."

Something smart on the topic. Complete article here.

[Sunjata]

Good article.  Thanks Curtis.

[Redjack]

What's wrong with "mainstream" America is always wrong with black America by a factor of fifty.

I'm not surprised the white kids found resonance there. Life is tough all over. Economics have forced all manner of ugly breaks into American  society that didn't used to exist. What difference does that make? the point is he wasn't talking about them. Muhammad's argument is facile and, while well worded, not much more than the normal emotional fluff presented by hucksters like Dyson.

Here are some actual facts.

1) Black America spends billions of dollars every year on various consumer products not limited to food and shelter. More than most nations.

2) Legally discrimination based upon skin color is over. yes, it still happens but, when it does, you can take a lot of people to the cleaners over the slightest hint of discrimination. We won that.

3) Colleges are open to those who qualify with particular emphasis on bringing in "diverse" students and providing grants and loans SPECIFICALLY for that purpose (much to the chagrin of many whites)

4) The black subculture used to be nearly distinct from and independent of the white over-culture in all the ways that actually matter. Yeah, it was because they didn't want us in the pool, but, even with that ugly imbalance, there used to be black institutions that mirrored and, in some cases surpassed, their white counterparts in every field from sports to medicine.

5) nobody ever gave "us" anything that we didn't fight for. never. not one time in this country has anyone ever done more than the MINIMUM to put things right in terms of race. not then and not now.

6) in SPITE of all that, we excel in EVERY FEILD in which we compete and ALWAYS HAVE. Those of us who do what's necessary to get into a given field tend to do fairly well within it.

What holds the rest of "us" back? Several factors. Generational poverty and social dysphoria based upon racial exclusion are factors, yes. Massive, ugly, not-our-fault factors.

But that doesn't mean there are not also OTHER factors holding us down that are entirely up to us to correct. You can have avian flu and AIDS at the same time.

People like to give me crap because, for the most part, I have not gotten anywhere in life by getting handouts and I say so. They like to think that most gains are due to somebody giving me something I haven't actually earned, like some kind of lottery win. Like it was Luck. No. It was work. Everything worth getting requires WORK.

My parents kicked my ass to keep my head in the game when all I could think about was sex and fun. When I needed money, I went and got a JOB. Not a fun job. Not a glamorous job. Not even a job that paid a hell of a whole lot. But it was MINE and the money i made from it was MINE too. And I didn't have to shoot anybody or sell drugs or anything. Amazing. Who would have thought it?

The cold had fact is, White America has done all it's going to do in terms of finding parity between us. They are, in many areas, working to undo what has already been achieved. So, who else are we going to look to to correct what ails but ourselves? Who? Who is supposed to care more about your future and your well being than YOU? Not me, brothers and sisters and certainly not them.

Nobody cares about that. And if you think they should, you're dreaming, kid. You are dreaming.

Wake up.

Money is power. We have LOTS of it between us. Hell we spend more than we generate (still not sure how that works). Every other ethnic group in this country uses its ethnicity as a point of cohesion. They shame their kids into perpetual uplift by pointing out the sacrifices of their parents and grand parents. They create banks and foundations and lobby groups and all manner of stuff designed exclusively to ensure they get their piece of the American pie.

What to we do? Argue about who's a "real" black person or whether ghetto fabulous is an oxymoron.

If people would stop woofing at Cosby for telling them to step the hell up, they might realize their power and actually DO IT.

But, no, it's much easier to whine and hold out a hand for scraps.

Sorry. I just wasn't built that way.

So Dr. Muhammad can stick it.

The world is bigger and better than his description and so are all of us.

[Open palm]

I can say gun-related violence hasn't done anybody any good in America.

[wgreason]

Hi, Redjack,

What are the black institutions created in the 20th century, especially after 1960, that served to advance the material interests (income, education, housing, wealth) of African Americans?

Where do these places fit into Cosby's analysis and your agreement with it?

[Redjack]

I'm not sure there are any after 1960.

BEFORE the end of segregation there were stacks. Black owned banks. Black owned textile mills. Obviously black owned sports and entertainment companies. Black contractors, farmers, grocery stores. Black colleges (which still exist).

What we had then and what is lacking now is the sense of being an actual community. We had a very physical fight on our hands then and, once we won the legal aspect of it, things slowly started to fall off as those who were best positioned to do so simply blended into the mainstream. Which would have been cool if it had not been at the expense of the existing black infrasructure. We could have had the cake AND eaten it.

The secret is we still could.

Nearly all the pieces are still in play to make us a very powerful nation-within-a-nation but, as usual, too many of us are too beat down on one end to get their sh*t together and, on the high end, too many are only living in service to their egos, regardless of what their press releases say.

The solution seems so obvious I just can't imagine why no one has taken steps.

I feel Cosby's frustration and I'm like 30 years younger than him. What the hell must it be like for folks in his age group?

[Jenn]

People like to give me crap because, for the most part, I have not gotten anywhere in life by getting handouts and I say so.

I think people like to give you crap because you say something that's obviously not true.  I've seen your definition of "handout", and it doesn't jive with anything written in English. If you had parents with feet in your ass, you didn't do it on your own, no matter how many times you say you did - though it's always good for a laugh. We all get help from somebody, somewhere. We all get a hookup, a blessing, a recommendation, guidance, feedback, a chance, a lucky break - anybody who says s/he does not is a liar.

I guess saying "I got a full scholarship to college" doesn't sound as glamorous and whitey approved if you knew that my family has been sending children to college for over 100 years, or that my great-grandmother had a college degree. Saying "I've been working since I was 15" doesn't warm the hearts of white folks when you find out that we've owned land for over 150 years - land that is STILL in my family, land that my great-times-twenty grandfather took a white man to court over because that white man was trying to steal it, and WON. I'm outspoken and unafraid because he was, and his children were, and their children were, and it trickled all the way to my black ass. I'll get in your face because he would have, and his children would have, and his children would have. To say that I "made it" on my own like I'm some kind of self-made miracle is utter bullsh*t, and I've never met a truly successful person who would say something like that.

[Tanksleyd]

People didn't start saying the "Merit System" until Black people got in line in the 1960's. Now the "Merit System" is held to be some mark of perfection. For the vast bulk of jobs the most that is needed is to be able to read, write and count at a 12th grade level and to come to work on time.

In Philly as you may know an Affirmative Action case was just put into place to correct an obvious wrong. In Philly before last week you could of gotten straight A's in every electric course you ever took in your life but if you were Black you were not getting into the $50+ an hour Electrician's Union. That was reserved for readers of the National Enquirer.

[wgreason]

I'm not sure there are any after 1960.

BEFORE the end of segregation there were stacks. Black owned banks. Black owned textile mills. Obviously black owned sports and entertainment companies. Black contractors, farmers, grocery stores. Black colleges (which still exist).

Just to name a few, and please offer your responses to them,

North Carolina Mutual Life Insurance
OneUnited Bank of Boston
Black Enterprise magazine
Kwame Jackson's Rosewood Development Corporation
Congressional Black Caucus (especially the With Ownership, Wealth program)
Congress of Racial Equality
Babygrande Records
Black Entertainment Television
Radio One
African American Studies - UMass-Amherst
African American Studies - Temple
African American Studies - Harvard
African American Studies - Michigan State
African American Studies - California-Berkeley
American Legacy magazine
Newark City Council
Black Issues in Higher Education magazine
40 Acres and a Mule Filmworks
Opportunities Industrialization Center
TransAfrica Forum
Jackson City Council

...

in addition to the network of over 200 historically black colleges and universities, thousands of chapters of black fraternities and sororities, millions of African American churches, millions of black-led public schools, the NAACP, and the National Urban League -- all founded before 1960.