Author Topic: A suggestion  (Read 11264 times)

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

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A suggestion
« on: January 02, 2008, 10:28:03 pm »
Since this is a forum filled with comic fans I suggest we change the General Heyman thread to the Ressurection Man thread. We know he will be back and it will make for a convenient setting for all his wisdom despite what ever other alias i.e. TruthLies he will come up with in the future.

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: A suggestion
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2008, 08:31:01 am »
We're onto him. He's a Whack-a-Mole. But I've got my mallet...

I don't begin to understand the mentality of someone who keeps returning to annoy when he's already been shown the door. If need be, we'll report him to his ISP.

So, Heyman, if you're reading (and we all know you are), don't go away mad, just go away.
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: A suggestion
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2008, 12:45:06 pm »
Bull.

You aren't the first BET detractor to come on these board and you won't be the last.

Your steadfast refusal to rebut any counter-claims made to is what makes you a waste of space.

And if you keep coming back after being banned repeatedly I have to wonder about your priorities.

You've GOTS to have better things to do than go where your clearly not wanted...   

Offline Cheirel

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Re: A suggestion
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2008, 12:01:21 am »
if I'm not offending anyone, what's the point of wasting your time
to ban me.  I represent a different viewpoint and it's

ohh he's the bad guy, ohh please ban him ohh please
he's too blame, he's the scapegoat

Metcalf is snitching he's bringing Admins and the whole task force


GANGSTER RAP MADE ME DO IT!

I can reccomend a very good doctor in your area to help you work your through issues. Or maybe you just need to start back on your medication. Professinally speaking you should never stop pychotrpic drugs suddenly.

brotherkomrade

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Re: A suggestion
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2008, 08:43:32 am »
I do ask why BET detractors waste their time with 'image" obsession when the mainstream of Euro-American perspective of black people hasn't changed that much since we stood on auction blocks?
You are either a racist or you are not; a stupid music video wouldn't change your mind either way. Now as far as self-image and the effect that BET programming may have; now THAT's a possible can of worms to be opened and remains to be proven. Since May of '07 when I was introduced to the black blogosphere, there were plenty of bloggers who all seemed to hold the position that BET was no damn good for ANYBODY. During the the Johnson reign I agreed, but still felt that the "new blood", mainly Hudlin needed the time and space to make the changes from "Hoochie and Gangsta" programming to something more progressive or at least morte balanced. I didn't even know that Hudlin and others took over until '05, but still felt that making changes of some kind would take time. After all, Johnson sold his business to Viacom; this meant that their new CEO, Debra Lee would have to answer to Viacom and its shareholders who only care about one thing; the bottom line.

Make all the money from sponsors, but spend next to nothing on 'reality' shows. This is not programming brilliance on Debra Lee's part; you can see this formula on MTV to this day or the Oxygen network.

I still support HGM or We gotto do better because I'm one of the few black folks out there who got what Jam was doing and I thought making it into a show would have been a strong impact or mirroring the foolishness of some black folk. Boondocks does it every episode. How is that the right-wing of the black blogosphere can uphold the words of Cosby but attack HGM or "Read a Book?" when the video or HGM was saying the same things he's been saying?

The problem I'm having now is that HGM (which I suspect has been canceled for the next season) or "Read a Book" are only drops in the bucket when it comes to the rest of BET programming. The rest is still minstrel fodder to me and at this juncture signifies that BET will not get any better than what we see now. In fact, I'm willing to bet money that the network will remain this way even after Hudlin or Lee leaves. All of the basic cable networks follow the the easy route of non-creativity and easy money; this will let them stay afloat. There are very few networks that are daring and will "go there" as far as being interesting and taking risks. Logo comes to mind. Yes, I said Logo. You know it's bad when a straight black man and his wife watch more Logo than any other cable channel on the weekends or week nights. Why? Because we are smart people that like to be entertained and Logo does that (to some degree).
It started when they showed Noah's Ark (which they canceled). I liked that they took a risk. You think Noah would have been shown on BET? The network is not perfect they too have dumbed down their programming in the past year, but they still have no issue showing the films of their culture/community or letting their viewers vote for their favorite music artist to be shown on the air. Does BET do that?
No, but unlike the protesters, I am realistic about capitalism. You want art to represent your people or the culture /community they come from? Then the raltionship between art and business must be attacked and redefined.

I respect Hudlin due to his involvement with Boondocks, Birth of a Nation, and the Panther series, but I think he's done all he can at BET. What I do fault him for is the defensiveness in the face of protest  or criticism, the behavior of others on this board seems to follow suit. You don't need to ban people just because they have a different view. Ignore them, the trolls disappear when you starve them out.

Offline bluezulu

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Re: A suggestion
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2008, 08:55:47 am »
" Minstrel Fodder" seems a little strong? I mean out of a few suspect music videos what shows are exactly minstrel like? The SH%t is going to hit the fan when the Boondocks episode airs when Huey protest BET. I hope McGruder shows balance like he has in all of the shows showing both the foolishness of some black folks and the single mindedness of the Huey types who think that if we are not in the streets fist in the air having hunger strikes then we are not down for the cause.

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: A suggestion
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2008, 09:12:26 am »
What I do fault him for is the defensiveness in the face of protest  or criticism, the behavior of others on this board seems to follow suit. You don't need to ban people just because they have a different view. Ignore them, the trolls disappear when you starve them out.

Your implication is erroneous. Heyman was not banned for expressing a different point of view but for repeatedly being a nuisance. As Jefferson Sargent put it so well:

Bull.

You aren't the first BET detractor to come on these board and you won't be the last.

Your steadfast refusal to rebut any counter-claims made to is what makes you a waste of space.

And if you keep coming back after being banned repeatedly I have to wonder about your priorities.

You've GOTS to have better things to do than go where you're clearly not wanted...   

You can say what you wish here but you must do it with civility. We encourage dialog.
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Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: A suggestion
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2008, 09:25:04 am »
I still support HGM or We gotto do better because I'm one of the few black folks out there who got what Jam was doing and I thought making it into a show would have been a strong impact or mirroring the foolishness of some black folk. Boondocks does it every episode. How is that the right-wing of the black blogosphere can uphold the words of Cosby but attack HGM or "Read a Book?" when the video or HGM was saying the same things he's been saying?
I think that's a good point. I have wondered the same thing.

The problem I'm having now is that HGM (which I suspect has been canceled for the next season) or "Read a Book" are only drops in the bucket when it comes to the rest of BET programming. The rest is still minstrel fodder to me and at this juncture signifies that BET will not get any better than what we see now.
Care to add some meat to those bones by being specific about what you don't like? I take you didn't care for Countdown to Lockdown, the DMX series, the Keyshia Cole series, College Hill, or Hell Date. What about American Gangster, Exalted, Meet The Faith, or Sunday Best? What else is there?

I think we're all looking forward to scripted original programming but I understand there are some projects in the works...
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline bluezulu

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Re: A suggestion
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2008, 09:35:14 am »
Thanks for the list Curtis. Was killing time before a meeting and could not post all of the shows. I think when folks come in with blanket Bet is garbage statements then they should be made to post each show and systematically post what is wrong with each. Conversely we then should post the same number of shows from a random network and systematically go through what is wrong with those shows. Just the visual of such an exercise half way makes my point eh? Black folks are way more harder on black folks then what any one else could be.

American Gladiators is back on. If BET had an American Gladiators I bet the Armstong Williams of the world will equate it to Black on Black violence. ::)

brotherkomrade

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Re: A suggestion
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2008, 11:31:14 am »
[quote Care to add some meat to those bones by being specific about what you don't like? I take you didn't care for Countdown to Lockdown, the DMX series, the Keyshia Cole series, College Hill, or Hell Date. What about American Gangster, Exalted, Meet The Faith, or Sunday Best? What else is there?

I think we're all looking forward to scripted original programming but I understand there are some projects in the works...
[/quote]

Yes, I wasn't being specific in my first post, but that was just to make my point that not all of those who protest BET need to make pest of themselves and not all pest need to be banned or threatened to being banned.

What I don't like and why:

Helldate - Was funny after the first three episodes. Very formulaic. The minstrel factor: the two midgets in devil costumes. Scripted.

Any or all the music video shows - Why? It's all about payola; just like the radio world and pretty much what MTV did before they stopped showing videos. No chances taken, experimenting with the audience to see if they would even want to see artists like Zap Mama; "Just show who's on the Bill Board top 10 and sell that sh*t to the sponsors."
While there are those from our community who express themselves in such deep complex ways such as "Supaman dat ho", why do we forget that there are others who express themselves the way Stickman form Dead Prez does? Where is the airtime for people like that? Yes, we know; black people are stupid and they don't like lyrics about stuff like politics and stuff. And neither do sponsors.

Comic View - Still an old hold over from the Johnson days. Comedy has more to do with personal taste, so what I write here has to do with what I like compared to the BS on CV. First, I believe that if you are not Richard Pryor or George Carlin get the f*ck off the stage! Yeah, I said, it Hamburger! Seriously, these dudes that they cut and paste into each episode from various cities, states, and time periods are about as funny as your parents when they tried to keep you from crying when you were two and teething. The physical humor the race comparisons; minstrel at its best.

American Gangster - I will say this; the production level on this show is far more eye-catching than the cheap productions found elsewhere on the network. It realluy is l;ike looking at an A & E doc. The problem is; it's all about gangsters. It seems that the creators of this show along with the show's enthusiasts are trying to cry out, "See, we have smart thugs just like Capone too. Our drug dealers can be jsut as blood thirsty and exploitative as the Italians were."

What I DO like about BET and why:

HGM (as to be originally aired) - the show's concept that to show how stupid our people can be, it would be far more powerful to use a TV show.

Wire reruns - I hate cop shows, but that's why I love the Wire; it's not a cop show. It was everything Charles Dutton had done with The Corner except the players are primarily dope dealers and cops. Really, HBO and the creators should be cutting the D-Man checks.

Girlfriends reruns - this show started out stupidly, but really, it turned out good. The writing stuck to the Cheers/Frasier style where characters are true to their natures and consistent with their actions.

Well, I posted this because I was asked to be specific, not to troll or attack. The best way to deal with stuff you don't like is to simply not watch. That has been my approach to the aspects of BET and the corporate comodification of black culture; don't buy it.

brotherkomrade

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Re: A suggestion
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2008, 11:34:13 am »
I too felt that Heyman 2008 was just trying to start stuff, but didn't really back what he stood for, just being rhetorical and repetitive. While I do respect the mods of a bulletin board to keep trolling down, I think it shows a weakness for threatening to ban people.

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: A suggestion
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2008, 12:39:43 pm »
I too felt that Heyman 2008 was just trying to start stuff, but didn't really back what he stood for, just being rhetorical and repetitive. While I do respect the mods of a bulletin board to keep trolling down, I think it shows a weakness for threatening to ban people.

A) We don't threaten.
B) It's not a weakness. It's customer service.
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: A suggestion
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2008, 12:51:45 pm »
American Gangster - I will say this; the production level on this show is far more eye-catching than the cheap productions found elsewhere on the network. It realluy is l;ike looking at an A & E doc. The problem is; it's all about gangsters. It seems that the creators of this show along with the show's enthusiasts are trying to cry out, "See, we have smart thugs just like Capone too. Our drug dealers can be jsut as blood thirsty and exploitative as the Italians were."
That's interesting. My take on AG is that in a pop culture that romanticizes gansta culture and thug life, it tries to offer some truth as an antidote.

Wire reruns - I hate cop shows, but that's why I love the Wire; it's not a cop show. It was everything Charles Dutton had done with The Corner except the players are primarily dope dealers and cops. Really, HBO and the creators should be cutting the D-Man checks.
You realize that the creators of The Wire are also the creators of The Corner, right?

Well, I posted this because I was asked to be specific, not to troll or attack. The best way to deal with stuff you don't like is to simply not watch. That has been my approach to the aspects of BET and the corporate comodification of black culture; don't buy it.
It's all good, brotherkomrade. We're here to talk about it.
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

brotherkomrade

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Re: A suggestion
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2008, 01:05:05 pm »
American Gangster - I will say this; the production level on this show is far more eye-catching than the cheap productions found elsewhere on the network. It realluy is l;ike looking at an A & E doc. The problem is; it's all about gangsters. It seems that the creators of this show along with the show's enthusiasts are trying to cry out, "See, we have smart thugs just like Capone too. Our drug dealers can be jsut as blood thirsty and exploitative as the Italians were."
That's interesting. My take on AG is that in a pop culture that romanticizes gansta culture and thug life, it tries to offer some truth as an antidote.

Wire reruns - I hate cop shows, but that's why I love the Wire; it's not a cop show. It was everything Charles Dutton had done with The Corner except the players are primarily dope dealers and cops. Really, HBO and the creators should be cutting the D-Man checks.
You realize that the creators of The Wire are also the creators of The Corner, right?

Well, I posted this because I was asked to be specific, not to troll or attack. The best way to deal with stuff you don't like is to simply not watch. That has been my approach to the aspects of BET and the corporate comodification of black culture; don't buy it.
It's all good, brotherkomrade. We're here to talk about it.

Ah yes, The David Simon connection. I forgot...
But I knew I was mad at somebody and I'm reminded that it wasn't Simon, but HBO for always "miniserial-ing" black life but green lighting shows full series where black people are either just co-stars or on the periphery; at least that was my initial reaction four years ago.

Thanks.

Offline bluezulu

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Re: A suggestion
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2008, 01:22:47 pm »
[quote Care to add some meat to those bones by being specific about what you don't like? I take you didn't care for Countdown to Lockdown, the DMX series, the Keyshia Cole series, College Hill, or Hell Date. What about American Gangster, Exalted, Meet The Faith, or Sunday Best? What else is there?

I think we're all looking forward to scripted original programming but I understand there are some projects in the works...

Yes, I wasn't being specific in my first post, but that was just to make my point that not all of those who protest BET need to make pest of themselves and not all pest need to be banned or threatened to being banned.

What I don't like and why:

Helldate - Was funny after the first three episodes. Very formulaic. The minstrel factor: the two midgets in devil costumes. Scripted.

Any or all the music video shows - Why? It's all about payola; just like the radio world and pretty much what MTV did before they stopped showing videos. No chances taken, experimenting with the audience to see if they would even want to see artists like Zap Mama; "Just show who's on the Bill Board top 10 and sell that sh*t to the sponsors."
While there are those from our community who express themselves in such deep complex ways such as "Supaman dat ho", why do we forget that there are others who express themselves the way Stickman form Dead Prez does? Where is the airtime for people like that? Yes, we know; black people are stupid and they don't like lyrics about stuff like politics and stuff. And neither do sponsors.

Comic View - Still an old hold over from the Johnson days. Comedy has more to do with personal taste, so what I write here has to do with what I like compared to the BS on CV. First, I believe that if you are not Richard Pryor or George Carlin get the f*ck off the stage! Yeah, I said, it Hamburger! Seriously, these dudes that they cut and paste into each episode from various cities, states, and time periods are about as funny as your parents when they tried to keep you from crying when you were two and teething. The physical humor the race comparisons; minstrel at its best.

American Gangster - I will say this; the production level on this show is far more eye-catching than the cheap productions found elsewhere on the network. It realluy is l;ike looking at an A & E doc. The problem is; it's all about gangsters. It seems that the creators of this show along with the show's enthusiasts are trying to cry out, "See, we have smart thugs just like Capone too. Our drug dealers can be jsut as blood thirsty and exploitative as the Italians were."

What I DO like about BET and why:

HGM (as to be originally aired) - the show's concept that to show how stupid our people can be, it would be far more powerful to use a TV show.

Wire reruns - I hate cop shows, but that's why I love the Wire; it's not a cop show. It was everything Charles Dutton had done with The Corner except the players are primarily dope dealers and cops. Really, HBO and the creators should be cutting the D-Man checks.

Girlfriends reruns - this show started out stupidly, but really, it turned out good. The writing stuck to the Cheers/Frasier style where characters are true to their natures and consistent with their actions.

Well, I posted this because I was asked to be specific, not to troll or attack. The best way to deal with stuff you don't like is to simply not watch. That has been my approach to the aspects of BET and the corporate comodification of black culture; don't buy it.
[/quote]
----------------------
Fair assessments but I disagree on almost all points but a few.

Hell date: Funny. Good formula tic but so is Cheaters, elimidate and every other show in this fashion. We are not asking for ban from those other networks for Formulatic shows. The midgets. I can take them or leave them. I see it more of exploited to small people as opposed to minstrel like. Black folks don't have midgetry lock down do we?

Music videos. Cry to the cows come home. I am 35. I am out of the demographic for video shows. If you are younger then 30, good for you. However the format of Rap n RnB that you look for the artist shun the radio and the cross over any way. I love Dead Prez but can we be serious. The content of their songs like F*$# the Radio and Turn off that BS aint establishment so why place them in an audience that is not there's? VH1 Soul and MTV 2 Bet Jazz are more to your liking Bro. Take that up with your cable provider if you don't have them.

Comic View: I actually agree for the most part on this. Back in the day before it used all of the spliced acts it was very good. Launched a few comedians to the national spotlight as well. We can all agree that fresh new comedy shows are needed. But I bet it is cheap as hell and profitable to show those rerun acts all the time. The game show/comedy show that launched the career of that young cat, cant remember his name was good.

American Gangster: I disagree all the way around and as a fan of the show I am kind of insulted. We had a thread a while back on why reasonable upstanding members of the board who are professionals like us are drawn to a show like AG. Hard to say but I will watch A&E, History Channel and other shows like this so why not watch a show that profiles the exploits of notorious crime figures who are of color? I mean the Wire is the best show on TV and AG profiled one of the main figures of the Baltimore Drug trade with a wonderful ending message to boot.


But again thanks for being specific and adding to the overall dialog quality of the board.