Author Topic: Black Panther 18 The Wedding  (Read 172992 times)

Offline sinjection

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2006, 07:14:04 pm »
BP #18 is the first issue of Hudlin's run that I've bought in over a year. I planned on just skimming it in the store, but the scene with Cap and IM looked interesting, and I liked the return of the Texeira outfit as T'Challa's formal duds, so I bought the issue so I could give it an honest read.

My impression after reading it is mixed. Most of the pieces of a good story are here, and there are a lot of nice moments (the Cap/IM scene, the Ororo/Xavier scene, etc.), but I think this issue is where karma finally came back and bit Hudlin in the ass over his reboot of the character. Why? Because every attempt at emotional resonance was undercut by the swiss cheesing of T'Challa's history.

The scene with Cap, Iron Man, and T'Challa would have been really powerful if they'd actually had the shared history we'd seen them have before the reboot. And, in fact, Hudlin writes the scene as if that history still exists -- but as we've seen in the pages of his own book, it doesn't exist anymore, so the scene makes no sense.

But for the moment, let's pretend that T'Challa still has all of his pre-Hudlin history, since that seemed to be the way Hudlin was approaching this issue. If that's the case, where's Everett K. Ross? I can't believe he'd miss the wedding. Where's Sgt. Tork? Where's Kasper Cole? And why on earth would Man-Ape be on the invitation list when he killed the time-displaced version of T'Challa and sparked a Wakandan civil war so recently? If any Jabari were going to be invited, wouldn't Queen Divine Justice be the obvious choice? And yet she's nowhere to be seen. Let's not forget Dr. Doom at the end, either. Before the reboot he and T'Challa were on cordial terms, but now he's acting like there's leftover animosity between them. Huh?

No -- sadly, Hudlin's reboot is in full effect here, and he just sidesteps it when he feels like tapping into the character's real history. That's nothing but a parlor trick -- lazy writing of the worst kind. Either the character's history was worth keeping or it wasn't. You can't have it both ways. And yet, Hudlin still tries to -- and in the process he just confuses readers both new and old because he can't maintain consistency even within his own stories.

This certainly isn't the worst book on the shelves, but it's still got serious problems, and I think T'Challa deserves a lot better. It's a shame that an event as big as the character's wedding had to happen in the middle of this muddled mess -- and it's even more of a shame that there were elements of a good story here that were completely overshadowed by the side effects of Hudlin's hubris.

Needless to say, I won't be buying #19. :-\

- Jer

I could not have been happier that that gadfly Everett K. Ross was not at the wedding. Good riddance to bad rubbish is what I say.

And why wasn't Tork at the wedding? Any of you feel free to help a brotha out on this one if I happen to be mistaken, but didn't the "hallowed" Christopher Priest kill Tork? Now, unless Sgt. Tork has the power to rise from the dead,  I don't believe he would be in any shape to attend a wedding or anything else for that matter. In addition, I don't remember Tork being close to T'Challa. He was the gum on the bottom of Falcon's shoe as I recall.

Mr. Hudlin is doing an outstanding job with the Panther. I must say that - in my always humble opinion of course - that Mr. Hudlin's Panther is the best I've seen since the McGregor "Panther's Rage" arc.
Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther

Offline sinjection

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2006, 07:36:33 pm »
god i know it's hopeless and i am wasting my time. geez those 5 minutes i wasted making that post but i couldnt take it. im over at comic book resources reading those fanboys reaction to black panther #18 and i had to sound off (in really tame way magic wand and curtis would be proud). i could not take the double talk and hypocritical nature of those fanboys just flip and take out of context the work of reg. my post:

Help me understand.


Don't sweat those fanboys b-z.

Until I see any indication to the contrary, I will simply conclude that the majority opinion from that quarter is prejudiced and bigoted where Mr. Hudlin is concerned. I'm not saying the prejudice and bigotry is racial. I'm saying this. Now that Mr. Hudlin has given us a regal, confident, magnificent, independent and powerful black man who now dons the sacred Black Panther garb and rules mighty Wakanda, some of those fanboys long for the days of Priest's Panther even though some might admit to not being particularly interested in the Priest run on the book.

For too many fanboys and fangirls out there  :)  there is evidence of a prejudgement where Mr. Hudlin's ability to effectively write the Black Panther is concerned, and now that Mr. Hudlin has proven to be successful at writing the character, those fanboys and fangirls out there are unwilling to accept the positive changes and/or adjustments made to the character. They are bigoted against Hudlin's T'Challa as they long for the days of the T'Challa of the immortal Jack Kirby's "Solomon's Frogs" and  the T'Challa of the Avenger's writer Roy Thomas.

Those same fanboys and fangirls will rant on and on about how comics characters need to "get with the times". They criticize the costumes. They criticize the ideals and morals of today's characters as being rooted in the past. Still, they refuse to accept that the Panther has had a marvelous upgrade and is a Panther for today's comic fan. Those prejudiced and bigoted fanboys and fangirls want the Panther to remain rooted in the past.

I read one bit of sheer stupidity that claimed that Hudlin had turned Storm into a cold-blooded killer.

What about the Storm who stabbed Callisto through the heart? What about the Storm who stabbed Marrow throught he heart? What about the Storm that other white writers had traipsing through this or that "arena", scantily-clad and engaging in wild, lecherous, debauchery...and enjoying it? Those white writers had given us a Storm who appeared to enjoy a life of decadence and violence for violence sake....and might have even been willing to experiment with a little bi-sexual activity to boot.

Those fanboys and fangirls want the equivalent of a step-n-fetchit T'Challa and an Ororo that is nothing more than a sexual plaything who gets off on things like a more violent form of arena mud-wrestling with other female characters. Mr. Hudlin has elevated T'Challa and Ororo to regal status. They are the sparkling, powerful rulers of one of the mightiest nations on the face of Marvel Comic's planet Earth. They have the potential to become the most unique and exciting married couple the Marvel Universe and comics in general, has ever seen. They can be bigger than Superman and Lois. They can be bigger than Reed and Sue, Peter and Mary Jane. Unless Underdog marries Sweet Polly Purebred, I don't see another couple out there that can even begin to challenge them  :D



If you must read the comments of those fanboys and fangirls brother b-z, do as I do. Laugh at them  ;)
« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 07:48:35 pm by sinjection »
Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther

CIENCIANO

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2006, 08:10:17 pm »
...sinjection, and just let me add something:

LONG LIFE TO HUDLIN'S BLACK PANTHER

Offline Jer

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2006, 08:32:16 pm »
if priest is cool with Reggie, then you should be too.

What, I'm not entitled to my own opinion of the work...?

Quote
last but not least, BP is popular.  Isn't that what we've always wanted?  A well written Panther being beloved by the masses?

Last I saw, Hudlin's numbers were in the same range as Priest's issue for issue, excluding crossovers.  A little bit lower than Priest's, actually.  And I don't share your opinion that Hudlin's Panther is well written.

Quote
Again, thanx for your time... and who is to say that Doom and T'challa will be fighting EACH OTHER?
hmmmm?

The cover's a wee bit suggestive, wouldn't you say...?

And why wasn't Tork at the wedding? Any of you feel free to help a brotha out on this one if I happen to be mistaken, but didn't the "hallowed" Christopher Priest kill Tork?

No, Tork wasn't killed, though it looked that way for a while.

Quote
In addition, I don't remember Tork being close to T'Challa.

They worked together a few key times, and T'Challa had enough of an interest in him to help him fake his death and nudge Kasper along.

Quote
Until I see any indication to the contrary, I will simply conclude that the majority opinion from that quarter is prejudiced and bigoted where Mr. Hudlin is concerned.

What, 18 issues isn't enough source material to draw a meaningful judgment from?  What would be enough...?

- Jer

Offline sinjection

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2006, 05:08:52 am »
...sinjection, and just let me add something:

LONG LIFE TO HUDLIN'S BLACK PANTHER


I second that emotion.

Long Life to Hudlin's Black Panther.

Long Life to the union of King T'Challa and Queen Ororo.

Long Life to a QUALITY product Marvel Comics can be proud of.
Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther

Offline sinjection

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2006, 05:36:21 am »
if priest is cool with Reggie, then you should be too.

What, I'm not entitled to my own opinion of the work...?

Quote
last but not least, BP is popular.  Isn't that what we've always wanted?  A well written Panther being beloved by the masses?

Last I saw, Hudlin's numbers were in the same range as Priest's issue for issue, excluding crossovers.  A little bit lower than Priest's, actually.  And I don't share your opinion that Hudlin's Panther is well written.

Quote
Again, thanx for your time... and who is to say that Doom and T'challa will be fighting EACH OTHER?
hmmmm?

The cover's a wee bit suggestive, wouldn't you say...?

And why wasn't Tork at the wedding? Any of you feel free to help a brotha out on this one if I happen to be mistaken, but didn't the "hallowed" Christopher Priest kill Tork?

No, Tork wasn't killed, though it looked that way for a while.

Quote
In addition, I don't remember Tork being close to T'Challa.

They worked together a few key times, and T'Challa had enough of an interest in him to help him fake his death and nudge Kasper along.

Quote
Until I see any indication to the contrary, I will simply conclude that the majority opinion from that quarter is prejudiced and bigoted where Mr. Hudlin is concerned.

What, 18 issues isn't enough source material to draw a meaningful judgment from?  What would be enough...?

- Jer

Ah. Tork wasn't killed. I see.

Well, in my always humble opinion, Tork should have been killed. I don't want to come off as overly-critical or bloodthirsty, but just as it was with Everett K. Ross, Tork always seemed to annoy me. I am one who believes that Ross, Tork and Kasper Cole were not conspicuous by their absences.

Hudlin is writing a new and better Black Panther. This Panther has no need for a bumbling, big-mouthed, bureaucratic buffoon, a dirty long-haired detective who looks as if he is hopelessly stuck in the 1960s hippy era; nor does this Black Panther have need of a Black Panther wannabe who isn't even Wakandan. Let Priest insert "White Tigers" into a religious cult of a people who probably have never seen a tiger before because the tiger itself is not indigenous to Africa. Let Priest insert a "White Wolf" into a book about the Black Panther when, like the tiger, the wolf is not an animal indigenous to Africa. For a book titled the Black Panther, it seems to me that Priest did his level best to introduce as much "white" into his run as he could. No, this isn't a racial or racist commentary. This is an observation I have made based on Priest's work.

Many of Hudlin's critics have displayed what has appeared to me as a negative attitude and opinion of Hudlin before and certainly shortly after the onset of his run on the project. Those people didn't have the benefit of 18 issues as a basis from which to draw their conclusions. They relied on their prejudices where Hudlin's writing ability is concerned. Now that Hudlin's Panther is in full swing, the prejudice evinced by many of his critics has become bigotry as they search for reasons to criticize any adjustment for the better that Mr. Hudlin has made to the Panther, based upon versions that some of them aren't particularly familiar with in the first place.
Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther

Offline kny

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2006, 05:43:29 am »
Great issue -
Just wanted to say props to Mr Hudlin, I loved the dialogue between Jessica and Cage, It really shows what Cage and Hudlin are thinking but at the same time shoots it down in a funny manner.

Also wanted to just say keep it up and ignore the haters - I'm absolutely loving the fact that on the other boards you get both these posts in the same thread:

1st type  - I hate this book. Reginald Hudlin is *$*£$% and doesnt know how to write. This book sucks!!! It's not long before this is cancelled
2nd type - Dammit!!! i reached my LCS 20 mins late and the issue was sold out!!!

Offline stanleyballard

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2006, 07:47:26 am »
Have to say that after reading some of Priest's experiences at Marvel and DC as the first Black Editor/Writer that he has earned my respect....despite not liking his last year of writing BP during his tenure....he had the balls to get me interested and to do it his way...understand that the Americanization of BP was due to poor sales and he wanted to save the book.  Also, he could not get Storm on for more than three issues due to conflicts with the Editors of X-Men.

Back on topic, believe that Hudlin is building on BP from his own view and as most writers do he is bringing in elements that push his storyline along.  He has great ideas and execution and has not written a bad issue yet.  BP is the most unique title at Marvel IMO.

Offline sinjection

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2006, 09:45:09 am »
Have to say that after reading some of Priest's experiences at Marvel and DC as the first Black Editor/Writer that he has earned my respect....despite not liking his last year of writing BP during his tenure....he had the balls to get me interested and to do it his way...understand that the Americanization of BP was due to poor sales and he wanted to save the book.  Also, he could not get Storm on for more than three issues due to conflicts with the Editors of X-Men.

Back on topic, believe that Hudlin is building on BP from his own view and as most writers do he is bringing in elements that push his storyline along.  He has great ideas and execution and has not written a bad issue yet.  BP is the most unique title at Marvel IMO.

You're right Stanley. I respect every comic book professional out there. It isn't easy to do what they do and as it is with any public entertainer, it takes a measure of courage to put your work out there for thousands of consumers to judge. In my always humble opinion, Christopher Priest was (and is) an excellent writer. I disliked some of the things he did while on the Black Panther series and yes...it rankles me when some people claim that Priest's version of the Black Panther is the definitive Black Panther when already (and once again, in my always humble opinion), Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther is  head and shoulders above any and all versions of the Black Panther that has existed previously.

Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS the Black Panther.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 09:47:01 am by sinjection »
Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther

Offline kitamu Re

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2006, 05:13:48 pm »
"What, 18 issues isn't enough source material to draw a meaningful judgment from?  What would be enough...?"

I thought you said you only read issue 1 and issue 18 :-\ damn bigot go crawl back into your cave ::)

Offline Jer

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2006, 05:42:25 pm »
Many of Hudlin's critics have displayed what has appeared to me as a negative attitude and opinion of Hudlin before and certainly shortly after the onset of his run on the project. Those people didn't have the benefit of 18 issues as a basis from which to draw their conclusions. They relied on their prejudices where Hudlin's writing ability is concerned. Now that Hudlin's Panther is in full swing, the prejudice evinced by many of his critics has become bigotry as they search for reasons to criticize any adjustment for the better that Mr. Hudlin has made to the Panther, based upon versions that some of them aren't particularly familiar with in the first place.

Well, I'm not one of those people.  I looked forward to Hudlin's first issue of Black Panther, eager to see the book return to the shelves and interested to see a new writer's take on the character.  I thought issue #1 had some promise, though it presented some head-scratching historical problems -- and I hung in there for a couple more issues before the work completely turned me off.  I continued to flip through each new issue in the store, hoping it would get better -- and while Hudlin's writing has become a bit more eloquent and he's had some nice moments here and there, I think the book's faults still clearly outweigh its merits.  It's both internally and externally inconsistent, the humor usually falls completely flat, and the stories themselves strike me as shallow, hackneyed, and ill-thought in general.

I have no problem saying Hudlin's Panther is better than Kirby's solo run or Gillis's miniseries, but it can't hold a candle to McGregor, Priest, or the Lee/Kirby origin issues, IMO.

Hudlin is building on BP from his own view and as most writers do he is bringing in elements that push his storyline along.

Kind of hard to build on a character when your first act as an author is to throw out everything that ever happened to him, don't you think...?   :-\

I thought you said you only read issue 1 and issue 18 :-\ damn bigot go crawl back into your cave ::)

No, I never said that.  I bought #1-3 and #18, and I've read or skimmed everything in between.

Glad to see the level of discourse around here hasn't changed...  ::)

- Jer

Offline HappyPants Panther

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2006, 06:21:26 pm »

I thought you said you only read issue 1 and issue 18 :-\ damn bigot go crawl back into your cave ::)


Huh?Where did that come from? Whats with you, kitamuRe?

Any way, I co-sign this:
I have no problem saying Hudlin's Panther is better than Kirby's solo run or Gillis's miniseries, but it can't hold a candle to McGregor, Priest, or the Lee/Kirby origin issues, IMO.

And its funny how a critic of Hudlins run on BP can never win; if he reads every issue, he's stupid for wasting his time, if he doesn't read it, he's stupid for knocking something he hasn't read. Whats a guy to do? Read it in the store, I guess...

Any way, on topic. Why was Man Ape at the wedding? Don't he and BP have beef? Or did that not happen? I don't get this partial ret con thing. I don't understand whats been negated and what remains or has been added.
Marvel has yet to change their Black Panther Bio page to reflect Hudlin's history. Yes! There's still hope.

Offline Mastrmynd

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2006, 06:50:26 pm »
it was funny to me.
he was mad that he didnt get invited... so he was gonna cause some drama...and lo and behold, his name was on the list.

i didnt see THAT coming.

good stuff!


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Offline D- Ruck

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2006, 09:18:39 pm »
Black Avengers PLEASE!

Black Avengers?  Come on
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Offline sinjection

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Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2006, 03:21:56 am »
I have no problem saying Hudlin's Panther is better than Kirby's solo run or Gillis's miniseries, but it can't hold a candle to McGregor, Priest, or the Lee/Kirby origin issues, IMO.

- Jer

Jer, we're all entitled to our opinions.

I have read the opinions of all the posters participating in this particular forum and I respect and have learned from those opinions, even those opinions that have been at variance with my own.

Now having said that, in my always humble opinion, not only could Hudlin's version of King T'Challa, the Black Panther of Wakanda "hold a candle" to the versions of the character as presented by McGregor, Priest and Lee/Kirby - excellent and exemplary creators all - Reginald Hudlin's version of the Black Panther outshines them all. Outshines them all! As for the Priest version of the Panther, Hudlin's version incinerates it and reduces it to nothing more than a mere afterthought.

Reginald Hudlin has put the "Mighty" in T'Challa, in Ororo, in Wakanda and in the Black Panther.

Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS the Black Panther.

'nuff said.
Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther