Author Topic: BP - 19  (Read 73677 times)

Offline HappyPants Panther

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #45 on: August 31, 2006, 08:44:04 pm »
that is definitely an out-of-character thing for Doom. He's a great many things, but racist has never been one of them, to my knowledge. And yes, if you're familiar with the character, it's a bit offensive to see him being portrayed that way.

Word.
Marvel has yet to change their Black Panther Bio page to reflect Hudlin's history. Yes! There's still hope.

Offline HappyPants Panther

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2006, 08:51:08 pm »
Whoa, why the need for the unncessary jab HappyPantsPanther?

A few reasons:

1. It's the truth. Many on this board don't let things like inconsistancy in behaivior, or plot bother them. I'm not among them.
2. I thought it was funny. I do realize I'm probably alone there.
3. I dislike Hudlin's Doom.
Marvel has yet to change their Black Panther Bio page to reflect Hudlin's history. Yes! There's still hope.

Offline kitamu Re

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 408
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2006, 08:51:51 pm »
Quote
I haven't picked up my comics yet, but that is definitely an out-of-character thing for Doom. He's a great many things, but racist has never been one of them, to my knowledge. And yes, if you're familiar with the character, it's a bit offensive to see him being portrayed that way.


question for you and happypants, has doom ever interacted or talked about africans before in comics. Doom is a villian and a sinister one at that. Doomhas lost his badness to over the past couple of years with writers trying to make Doom into an anit-hero like venomand sabretooth. Doom is not a hero or has any morals, so I am glad reg wrote him as a nasty snob sob who would definitley try and one-up t'challa. A racist to me is someone who hates another race so much they would attack and destroy them based on the hate. Doom may be a bigot, but reg did not write him as a raving kkk racist screaming nigger,nigger like some of these hate group rock bands.

Offline Reginald Hudlin

  • Landlord
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 10032
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2006, 08:54:18 pm »
Hello everyone,

I am (quite obviously) new here.  I am a massive fan of T'Challa and have been my entire comics reading life.

I just purchased #19 today, and had a MAJOR question about a particular part.

Doom: I've always said the African is a superior physical specimen.
T'Challa: Finish the sentence Doom. "...which compensates for his lack of intellect."
Doom: Generally true, yes. But clearly the Wakandan is exceptional. Perhaps a low-grade mutant strain in your peoples' DNA.

This scene makes Doom come off a racist, something he never has been in his 30+ years of history.  If anything, his hatred of everyone is quite color blind.  I was just wondering if the scene was meant to convey Doom has having racist issues, or if I'm just reading too much into it?


Welcome YSC. Cool tag.

Lots of people (I noticed a thread on another board) worried about Doom's image.  Murderous?  Fine.  Egomanic? Of course. But racist?  Now you've gone too far!!!  He's out of character.

Actually, in a previous encounter with Panther, Doom did dismiss Wakandans as savages. But more importantly, DOOM doesn't think he's racist.  Would be offended if you suggested so.  He thought he was COMPLIMENTING T'Challa. That kind of casual racism is pretty common....I hear comments like that from the nicest people all the time.

Offline HappyPants Panther

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2006, 08:59:43 pm »
question for you and happypants, has doom ever interacted or talked about africans before in comics.

I don't know. But I've never seen him depicted as a racist, and now that I have,*Oompa Loompa voice* I don't like the look of it. Racism isn't Doom's thing. Delusions of grandure, and megalomania are. Now Red Skull on the other hand, is and should always be portrayed as a racist.
Marvel has yet to change their Black Panther Bio page to reflect Hudlin's history. Yes! There's still hope.

Offline Rollo_Tomasi

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 555
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #50 on: August 31, 2006, 09:01:35 pm »
Actually, Doom has had "anti-heroic" tendencies for years, if not decades. They established way back when that he was actually a very effective ruler, if an overly autocratic and arrogant one. Doom considering himself superior to T'Challa is to be expected; Doom considering whites superior (intellectually or otherwise) is quite a deviation from the norm. Doom has more than enough unpleasant personality quirks and sinister agendas to make him an effective villain without bending him into yet another "racist white man" cariacature. I have to say, I'm actually rather disappointed to hear this. It just seems like a lazy way to start a problem between the two, when there are more than enough other reasons for it to happen. We're talking about a man with the intellect and power to make a realistic grab for control of the world, and the will to do so, believing every step of the way that what he's doing is for the world's own good.

Before the government and news media had everyone wetting themselves over terrorism, Doom was a frighteningly zealous, seemingly unstoppable force. Everytime you thought he was dead, it turned out to be a robot or something. He had an invention for damn near everything, and more well-laid plans than Batman.

But now we need him to be a racist too? Sad.
"There are no hereditary kings in America and no powers not created by the Constitution''

-- U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor

Offline Rollo_Tomasi

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 555
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #51 on: August 31, 2006, 09:09:36 pm »
Hello everyone,

I am (quite obviously) new here.  I am a massive fan of T'Challa and have been my entire comics reading life.

I just purchased #19 today, and had a MAJOR question about a particular part.

Doom: I've always said the African is a superior physical specimen.
T'Challa: Finish the sentence Doom. "...which compensates for his lack of intellect."
Doom: Generally true, yes. But clearly the Wakandan is exceptional. Perhaps a low-grade mutant strain in your peoples' DNA.

This scene makes Doom come off a racist, something he never has been in his 30+ years of history.  If anything, his hatred of everyone is quite color blind.  I was just wondering if the scene was meant to convey Doom has having racist issues, or if I'm just reading too much into it?


Welcome YSC. Cool tag.

Lots of people (I noticed a thread on another board) worried about Doom's image.  Murderous?  Fine.  Egomanic? Of course. But racist?  Now you've gone too far!!!  He's out of character.

Actually, in a previous encounter with Panther, Doom did dismiss Wakandans as savages. But more importantly, DOOM doesn't think he's racist.  Would be offended if you suggested so.  He thought he was COMPLIMENTING T'Challa. That kind of casual racism is pretty common....I hear comments like that from the nicest people all the time.

Doom dismisses pretty much everyone as savages. One of his biggest beefs with Reed Richards is that he can't look down on him because Richards is, in many ways, more successful than he is. But while we're on the subject...why is damn near every villain in this series a racist? I mean, I guess Man-Ape isn't a racist, but then again, he wasn't much of a villain either. He got drunk at the wedding and beat up Spider-man. I'm not really complaining, it just kind of occurred to me...Black Panther fights vampires. But they're racist vampires from the age of Slavery. He fights Doom, and suddenly Doom develops an interest in eugenic theory. Everett Ross goes from T'Challa's sidekick to the servitor of a government conspiracy against the throne of Wakanda. Even Magneto, a guy who's whole life and villainy has been a response to racism, starts looking a bit racist in the House of M crossover. It just seems to be a recurring theme.
"There are no hereditary kings in America and no powers not created by the Constitution''

-- U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor

Offline kitamu Re

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 408
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #52 on: August 31, 2006, 09:10:58 pm »
did you read the Doom issue that Reg mentioned where he called africans savages? I didn't consider that racism then and I don't now, Doom is egostistical and bigoted he is not some noble european. You might be living in fantasy land or just plain in denial if you think people don't have bigoted perceptions of each other. But I digress the Noble european doom would never call africans savages ;D

Offline HappyPants Panther

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #53 on: August 31, 2006, 09:11:54 pm »
Actually, Doom has had "anti-heroic" tendencies for years, if not decades. They established way back when that he was actually a very effective ruler, if an overly autocratic and arrogant one. Doom considering himself superior to T'Challa is to be expected; Doom considering whites superior (intellectually or otherwise) is quite a deviation from the norm. Doom has more than enough unpleasant personality quirks and sinister agendas to make him an effective villain without bending him into yet another "racist white man" cariacature. I have to say, I'm actually rather disappointed to hear this. It just seems like a lazy way to start a problem between the two, when there are more than enough other reasons for it to happen. We're talking about a man with the intellect and power to make a realistic grab for control of the world, and the will to do so, believing every step of the way that what he's doing is for the world's own good.

Before the government and news media had everyone wetting themselves over terrorism, Doom was a frighteningly zealous, seemingly unstoppable force. Everytime you thought he was dead, it turned out to be a robot or something. He had an invention for damn near everything, and more well-laid plans than Batman.

But now we need him to be a racist too? Sad.
C/S
Marvel has yet to change their Black Panther Bio page to reflect Hudlin's history. Yes! There's still hope.

Offline kitamu Re

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 408
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2006, 09:15:22 pm »
Quote
But they're racist vampires from the age of Slavery. He fights Doom, and suddenly Doom develops an interest in eugenic theory. Everett Ross goes from T'Challa's sidekick to the servitor of a government conspiracy against the throne of Wakanda. Even Magneto, a guy who's whole life and villainy has been a response to racism, starts looking a bit racist in the House of M crossover. It just seems to be a recurring theme.

Try living in the real world. I am sure you are caucasian that is why you would pick up on something so trivial. Most caucasian males have been bred to have a "hero" complex, they have been bred that they must save the world, or first world, but that is another post. I didn't see anything racist about any of the villians, the fact that you do seems to indicate that is what you are looking for.

Offline kitamu Re

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 408
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2006, 09:18:27 pm »
Quote
But now we need him to be a racist too? Sad.

You sound like you admire Doom, I bet he is your fav villian ;D

Offline Rollo_Tomasi

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 555
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #56 on: August 31, 2006, 09:18:39 pm »
Quote
But they're racist vampires from the age of Slavery. He fights Doom, and suddenly Doom develops an interest in eugenic theory. Everett Ross goes from T'Challa's sidekick to the servitor of a government conspiracy against the throne of Wakanda. Even Magneto, a guy who's whole life and villainy has been a response to racism, starts looking a bit racist in the House of M crossover. It just seems to be a recurring theme.

Try living in the real world. I am sure you are caucasian that is why you would pick up on something so trivial. Most caucasian males have been bred to have a "hero" complex, they have been bred that they must save the world, or first world, but that is another post. I didn't see anything racist about any of the villians, the fact that you do seems to indicate that is what you are looking for.

I'm quoting this just to keep it for momento's sake, in case you try to edit it later, after you realize how stupid this makes you look.
"There are no hereditary kings in America and no powers not created by the Constitution''

-- U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor

Offline HappyPants Panther

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #57 on: August 31, 2006, 09:20:00 pm »
Try living in the real world. I am sure you are caucasian that is why you would pick up on something so trivial. Most caucasian males have been bred to have a "hero" complex, they have been bred that they must save the world, or first world, but that is another post. I didn't see anything racist about any of the villians, the fact that you do seems to indicate that is what you are looking for.

*Will now dismiss everything this guy says*
Marvel has yet to change their Black Panther Bio page to reflect Hudlin's history. Yes! There's still hope.

Offline kitamu Re

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 408
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2006, 09:21:58 pm »
Quote
I'm quoting this just to keep it for momento's sake, in case you try to edit it later, after you realize how stupid this makes you look.

and how stupid you sound typing crap about racist villians plaguing black panther :D Get a grip and get moving cause you sound like a broken record. I am sure you would enjoy a return of bp to the days were every issued focused on bp sidekick ross, you and happypants can keep dreaming

Offline HappyPants Panther

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
Re: BP - 19
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2006, 09:23:50 pm »
and how stupid you sound typing crap about racist villians plaguing black panther :D

You're talking about Hudlin, right?
Marvel has yet to change their Black Panther Bio page to reflect Hudlin's history. Yes! There's still hope.