Author Topic: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!  (Read 80904 times)

Offline karaszero

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #165 on: March 30, 2008, 04:04:29 am »
From the start of this version of DS the General Officers with the exception of two ( one of whom was my former commander) Gens. Shinseki and Sheehan remained quiet and subservient to their civilian bosses, they were more concerned with saving their careers than the truth. The lack of integrity/leadership shown by these general officers led to the abuses at Abu Gharaib and Gitmo and the subsequent sh**cannings of low rankining reserve enlisted men/women. Powell is generally recognized as a soldiers' officer ( one who shows concern for his men) he was there at DS, he knew the numbers didn't add up but he still played the good soldier and followed his orders to the letter. Apology accepted. I am always uncomfortable being thanked for my participation during DS I was a soldier ,I signed a contract knowing full well that I could see action and I accepted that as part of the obligation, I just wish that the country at large used the sacrifices of the young men/women dying in this war today as tthe STARTING point for dialogue on race relations in this country

Offline sinjection

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #166 on: March 30, 2008, 08:53:12 am »
On another topic ... I don't know how the Nazi Holocaust came up ... I certainly didn't raise it.  The extermination of the Jews of Europe was a horrible thing.  The Slave trade was a horrible thing of greater magnitude.  Perhaps the Holocaust is given greater emphasis because it was more recent, or perhaps because as you mentioned nobody before then believed there could be assembly-line mass murder in the 20th Century, or maybe because of an ethnocentric bias (as in "How could 'civilized' Europeans do such a thing?"), and yes maybe because the victims, while Jews, were white. 

Getting back to horrors.  The Cambodian genocide was horrible. The genocide in Rwanda was horrible.  What is taking place in Africa today is horrible.  As to this latter example, Jewish organizations and Jews in leadership positions of non-Jewish organizations are far more active in condemning the genocide in Africa today, and in trying to alleviate the suffering, than any other ethnic group in America, bar none.  Jews have traditionally been "over-represented" (vis a vis our % of the population) in movements fighting for social justice, combating genocide, and alleviation of global suffering.
Part of the reason may be because of our own cultural "memory" of the Holocaust.  Many Jews, even American Jews, lost family and friends.  Many Jews in America today are the children or grandchildren or great-grandchildren of Holocaust survivors.  If the memory of the Holocaust as spurred American Jews to fight for justice and work to help the oppressed elsewhere, that is something to praise, not to minimize.


Mike, have you ever heard of Gerhart Reigner?

[Remarkable Nonsense about the Holocaust
Gerhart Riegner Recalls Attempts to Alert World to Holocaust
GENEVA (AP) -- In August 1942, he tried to alert the West about the Nazi plan to annihilate Europe's Jews. No one responded.

Now, more than half a century later, Gerhart Riegner says the world is still unwilling to accept reports of brutality and mass killings. And worse, he says, the world is still reluctant to act.

"News of the extermination of Jews was so awful that people didn't believe it. Even people who did know were very reluctant to do anything.

"It's the same today," Riegner said, in reference to recent horrors like the 1994 genocide in Rwanda in which an estimated half million people were killed.

Riegner, 87, spoke to a small group of journalists recently about his newly published memoirs, which he wrote to show how difficult it was to get the public to accept the truth.

The 680-page book, "Ne Jamais Desperer," (Never Give Up Hope), describes his life as a World Jewish Congress official, including the dispatch of the now-famous "Riegner cable," which contained his early account of the systematic killing that became known as the Holocaust.

He maintains that many of the 6 million Jews killed in Nazi concentration camps could have been saved if the United States and Britain had acted when he sounded the alarm.

Although there had been earlier reports of deportations and slayings of Jews, Riegner's telegram was the first authoritative word that the Nazis actually had a coordinated extermination plan.

"Never did I feel so strongly the sense of abandonment, powerlessness and loneliness as when I sent messages of disaster and horror to the free world and no one believed me," Riegner wrote.]

http://www.historiography-project.org/nonsense/19990111Riegner.html

The "Holocaust": white germans attempted to exterminate white Jews, other groups of "undesirables" who were white as well. No doubt that had hitler been successful to the point of nazi world domination, he would have turned his murderous ambitions to the Black peoples of the world. Asiatic Japanese did essentially the same thing to their Asiatic cousins, the Chinese, that the white Germans did to the white Jews, Poles, Gypsies, homosexuals, infirm, mentally deficient, POW and whomever else fell into their clutches. The Rwandan Genocide, a black majority's massacre of a black minority and those moderates within the oppressive majority who attempted to assist the persecuted black minority. Today as a brilliant young black American born of a Kenyan father and a white American mother runs an historical campaign for the Presidency of the U.S., in Kenya itself, there is brutal fighting born of political strife between the Kikuyu tribe and the Luo minority leading to extreme violence and death. Blacks killing blacks. A ruthless majority murdering a hapless minority. People with power to destroy, destroying the people without the means to protect themselves.

The Jews "white skin" didn't help them much when they sought safe refuge from the nazis in this country and other western European nations. There are many white people today who will tell you to your face that the holocaust never happened. Why? I would venture a guess that their hatred of Jews and the others who perished alongside them would be among those reasons why they would deny the event. 

Jews founded the NAACP. Some white people have said the Jews did so to advance a program of encouraging racial interaction and race mixing intended to dilute the "pure white" majority. Some black people have said the Jews did so to exploit black people, to impede our progress for justice and equality and if necessary, to use blacks as human shields in the event hostilities once again threaten their group. Nobody's perfect. There are good Jews; there are bad Jews, just as there exists the good and the bad in all races and creeds of mankind.

Someone said, we shouldn't get into the whose persecution is worse discussion because it is counterproductive. The person was correct. It is when human beings stop being limited by skin color, culture, nationality, class and the other societal constructs dividing us and begin to respond to each other as fellow citizens of the world, that true progress toward a better world for all can be made. This time may never come. It certainly won't come if too many of us cling to the "my suffering was/is worse than your suffering so you need to get in line behind me" attitude.

I could say more because as Clubber Lang told Rocky Balboa; "I gotta lotta mo!" "I gotta lotta mo!"  :D

In the interests of keeping this thread on topic, this post will see my final words regarding this issue.




« Last Edit: March 30, 2008, 08:58:02 am by sinjection »
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Offline Mastrmynd

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #167 on: March 30, 2008, 08:59:29 am »
*looks at sin*
Are you sure?
I mean...i know you have to have blackberry arthritis by now without all that knowledge u've been typin'.


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Offline Redjack

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #168 on: March 30, 2008, 09:03:31 am »
Yes. We saved the world, genius. (I fixed it for you  :) ) So did the Brits. So did the Russians. The one statement doesn't obviate the others.

Yawn.

So when I neglect to mention the Poles, the Gypsies, the Homosexuals and other victims of the Holocaust which the U.S. is in large part responsible for allowing to occur, then I am only concerned about the Jews and have no feeling, no compassion, no interest in mentioning the suffering of the others. You accuse me of this even though I have said time and again that human suffering is human suffering, period. Unlike you, I don't ascribe to the "me first! me first!" "get in line" approach. The suffering of all must be addressed and eliminated.

But here you are with your hysterical and now hypocritical "...oh yes, and SAVED THE F*CKING WORLD". You didn't mention the Allies or the Soviets in your initial bluster. You were only concerned about what the U.S. did, how the U.S. revamped her economy, how the U.S. "did this" and "did that". It is only last night and one time previous to your most recent bore fest of a post (which I didn't read, but only skimmed and then discarded), when I reminded you that the U.S. didn't save the world by itself that you conceded the Brits and the Soviets "saved the world, too."

Excerpt from reply #86:

We did not get in early and that, ultimately, is why we turned the tide when we did get in. Before we joined in we revamped our entire economy in an impossibly short period of time. We shattered the traditional social structure in ways that led directly to the civil rights victories for women and blacks over the next decades and, oh yes, SAVED THE f*ckING WORLD. (Red, for Redjack)

  Oh, so melodramatic. The U.S. played a large part in saving the world, this is true. Do not forget about our Russian ally. Without their withering assault on germany, forcing her to fight a war on two fronts, the Eastern front being the most damaging because the Russians weren't playing. The U.S. was able to do its part in saving the war with our Russian and British allies. (Blue, for true blue sinjection)  :)



So, when I don't always mention the others who suffered the Holocaust beside the Jews, I'm not concerned about the suffering of those others even though I've always said human suffering is human suffering. But conversely, you are expected to believe that I should assume that when you say "...oh yes, and SAVED THE F*CKING WORLD", that you were not just talking about what the U.S. did, but you were also crediting the Allies and the Soviets whom you never mentioned until I reminded you that they too participated in putting down the third reich. The word "we" - "we" being the U.S. - appears in your statement no fewer than six times. No mention of the Soviets. No mention of the Brits. Only a mention that "We did not get in early..." "...we joined in..." "we turned the tide..." and then, the most hysterical part of your histrionics "...and, oh yes, SAVED THE F*CKING WORLD."  :o :)  You used the word "we" so many times - "we" being the U.S." - who might have guessed that when you said "we", you were including the Britains and the Soviets? Einstein maybe?

Geesh Maurice. I swear, whenever I see a post contributed by you in the future, I will run, not walk in the other direction as fast as my optic nerves will carry me.  :)

Yeah. You're still reading the posts, still stupid and still a hypocrite and, of course, still wildly off the mark. It was the Russian winter and Hitler's refusal to listen to his generals when they told him it would be best to hold back until it ended that did the Nazis in on the eastern front. Not the "withering" Russian attack. Have you ever actually met WW2? Prat.

If the US had not entered the war, Hitler would have won. Simple. Everybody knew it then and everybody who studies the war accepts it as true now. That is undisputed by all serious historians. Another thing that is undisputed is, while it was not easy for the nazis to take Europe, they would have found taking the US impossible for a number of reasons. The likely outcome of the war would have been a 3 way power split between an isolationist US, Nazi Europe and Soviet Russia.

The reason Churchill wanted us in the war was our massive reserves of manpower and, despite the rigors of the Depression, our massive manufacturing and agricultural architectures. And it was those things that not only turned the tide of the war but left the US as the dominant economic power in the aftermath of the conflict. We were the only modern nation that hadn't been bombed, shot or gassed to the brink of oblivion.

No US in WW2, the Nazis win. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that counts as saving the f*cking world.

You cited the Paperclip Project (presuming you even know what that is) as some sort of tangential example of America's "guilt" without acknowledging 1) that it came after the fact that birthed your little tirade 2) that the Russians AND the US picked over the remnants of the Nazi science community in order, not to get to space as you said (idiot) but to keep our military superiority over the USSR.

And, of course, this point of "hypocrisy" is the thing you latch onto because the rest of your argument is gone. Oh, and fixing typos. The only reason America's actual contribution to the war was cited in the first place was your persistent and completely ahistorical assertion that we bear any percentage of responsibility for the Nazi treatment of ANY concentration camp victims (though, of course, you did no research into any of the others who were turned away and never mentioned any of them in any of your comments until I brought them up). We do not. We did not. We are the primary reason there are any survivors at all.

Once again you are both incapable of walking a straight line in a debate and of accepting facts as facts. You only accept those things that support your ridiculous assertion. In fact you seem not to know about a significant number of contravening facts and patterns of documented behavior that would have kept you from stumbling into the dark as you have. That is delusional, bunky.

And fairly pathetic.

Now you claim you won't ever read any more of my posts. Not only is that a lie (you essentially said the same thing already and yet you persist) but it is indicative of YOUR problem as it relates to your ability to learn.

I have presented FACTS, to refute your assertion. What you gave back was increasingly scattered and insulting gibberish. You only drew quotes from sources that had an ax to grind about the issue and, when I blew holes in those, jumped around from era to era to try to find further "support," even though the US treatment of CUBA i the 50s and beyond has no bearing on something it did in the 40s. By contrast I simply took raw unfiltered numbers, the actual dates and the actual context and presented them.

You LOSE. You are WRONG. Your assertion is CRAP. It is UNSUPPORTED. You have no idea what you're talking about which makes you a fool when you persist in the face of NEW FACTUAL DATA from someone who does. You called what I said sophistry. I suggest you look that word up.  You'll find that it applies to you.


« Last Edit: March 30, 2008, 09:14:19 am by Redjack »
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Offline Mastrmynd

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #169 on: March 30, 2008, 09:04:37 am »
*ding*ding*ding*
we've gone 15 rounds.
now we go to the fighter judges for the scoring...


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Offline sinjection

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #170 on: March 30, 2008, 09:04:56 am »
*looks at sin*
Are you sure?
I mean...i know you have to have blackberry arthritis by now without all that knowledge u've been typin'.

 :D

Quite sure, dear brother.

The sinjection correction program is complete.

And hey, I believe that you may have helped me become an "Honorary Wakandan" with this, my response to you marking my 1,000 post.

Let's see if I made it  ;)
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Offline Mastrmynd

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #171 on: March 30, 2008, 09:09:09 am »
welcome to the family.
I'll summon your very own Royal Bathers!
Also, do you prefer Rose Petals or Tulips to grace your foot path?


Listen to my entertaining radio show, "The Takeover: Top 20 Countdown" at www.top20takeover.VVCRadio.com.

Right on to the real and death to the fakers!  Peace out!

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #172 on: March 30, 2008, 09:58:34 am »
Getting back to the original topic of this thread ...

Doesn't anyone else not believe Barak Obama when he says he was unaware of his church's pro-Hamas publication in the Pastor's Page (calling it a "fresh view") and the publication of the rant of the anti-Israel fanatic who claimed that Israel was creating a bomb to kill Arabs and Blacks (which, I'm sure, would cause some dismay among those Jews who immigrated to Israel from the surrounding Arab countries and Ethiopia   :P).

I mean, what are we going to learn next?  That the Rev. Jeremiah Wright endorsed and published in his Pastor's Page an article proclaiming: "To add gentile blood to their Passover matzos, the Zionists are abducting and slitting the throats of Arab children" ...???   

When these matters were published (um ... the "Hamas" endorsement and the "Black Bomb" rant, not my imaginary "Passover matzo" statement) Barak Obama was already running for President.  It was just that, at that time of those publications in the Church Bulletin, nobody was making a stink about the Church's positions and the Pastor's statements.  Still, does anyone in their right mind really believe that, for over the past 20 years, Barak Obama has not been aware of the position of his Pastor, his Spiritual Mentor [or is it now "Former Paster" and "Former Spiritual Mentor"] on issues surrounding Israel?  That while running for office someone on his staff, or some friends in the Church, were not informing him of what was going on?  That he would be so out of the loop as to matters as controversial as the two I've cited here?  Frankly, I find this to be beyond belief.

Isn't it more likely that, in his heart of hearts, either Barak Obama didn't care ... or to some degree sympathized with the views of his Pastor? (As Ralph Nader claims)


I know you're being humorous here Mike but your getting dangerously close to "slippery slope" territory here. Speech against Israel doesn't equal Blood Libel.:)

As usual, context is everything.

If the main thrust of Rev. Wright's sermons in 20 years of preaching were the Middle East and its environs in the present day, he'd of bored his congregation out the door ages ago.

I'm fairly certain Wright's views on Israel and its policies didn't come up all that often. If you don't speak on what is actually relevent to your congregation you won't have one for long. On close inspection of those infamous Youtube segments you'll note that most of the congregation is just politely sitting and listening with no patictular interest.

Wright spoke out in opposition to what he saw as a wave of hypocracy coming from 9/11. As a practical matter it probaby doesn't come up all that often. And again, as  has been noted repeatedly, this guy wasn't going to be advising Obama on foreign policy so the idea that Obama's staff needed to vet Obama's Pastor's personal politics is bizarre.

Especally in light of the fact that in any honest discussion of the matter many of Wright's views are not uncommon in the Black Community and should come as a shock to no-one. 

     
« Last Edit: March 30, 2008, 10:06:52 am by Vic Vega »

Offline karaszero

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #173 on: March 30, 2008, 10:25:59 am »
Real Time with Bill Maher addressed this issue friday night. tavis smiley was one of the guest panelist and he raised the point that Rev Wright was also a former Marine who served his country. The Pat buchanan comments were also addressed, this was a very good show You guys should look for the replay

Offline Catch22

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #174 on: March 30, 2008, 11:58:33 am »
Real Time with Bill Maher addressed this issue friday night. tavis smiley was one of the guest panelist and he raised the point that Rev Wright was also a former Marine who served his country. The Pat buchanan comments were also addressed, this was a very good show You guys should look for the replay

I saw the show Friday night and they were spot on about the contrast between Rev. Wright's comments and those of Pat Buchanan.  This media double standard's nothing new.  I'm sick and tired of this bait and switching...focus on Obama and the issues.  Rev. Wright is a none issue...the economy is the issue. 

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #175 on: March 30, 2008, 12:07:49 pm »
Getting back to the original topic of this thread ...

Mike, I wish I could ask these questions in a way that would better convey my meaning. Wasn't Menachem Begin considered a terrorist? Wasn't the Igrun recognized as a terrorist organization? Once the State of Israel was established and supported by the U.S. and Great Britain, Menachem Begin became a respected Prime Minister. Begin, Jimmy Carter and the great Anwar Sadat were hailed as great peacemakers. Begin walked in Sadat's funeral procession following his assassination.

Now, it's my understanding that Hamas won the right to represent the Palestinian vote because the Palestinian voter chose Hamas over the Fatah faction. Hamas said it would work toward making life better for the Palestinian people and would participate in talks with Israel. The U.S., Israel and the Fatah were not happy with the new station of Hamas. Fatah actually skirmished with Hamas early on if I'm not mistaken. Why is it that after Hamas achieved their political victory, Israel, the U.S. and Fatah chose to discomfort them rather than exploring how their new responsibilities would affect how they act?

The PLO and Arafat once pledged to destroy Israel but when convinced it was easier said than done, Arafat turned to talks and negotiations. It seems to me that Hamas has been denied that opportunity to do so.


Menachem Begin's Irgun targeted British military targets.  The most notable example of Irgun “terrorism” is the bombing of the King David Hotel.  However, that hotel served as the British HQ in Palestine.  Begin claims in his autobiography that the Irgun telephoned the British HQ and warned them that the bombing was imminent and that the hotel should be evacuated.  He claims that the British disregarded the warning.  Historians, however, dispute whether the message really got through.

Regarding past negotiations with the Palestinians – most of the process represented concessions by Israel – of land and administrative rights to the Palestinian Authority, providing funding, and providing weaponry (some of which was later turned against Israelis).  Thus it is no surprise that in those stages of the “Peace Process” the P.A. led by Arafat was willing to “take” what was offered.  However, as I noted above, when the time came to actually make peace, Arafat refused.

Moving to the present, Hamas without question targets civilians for terrorist attack. It is troubling that Pastor Wright would disseminate sweet-sounding Hamas propaganda tailored for American ears – though even there the author makes reference to the Palestinian return to all of what is now Israel.  The truth of Hamas is very different from the picture portrayed by Barak Obama’s church.  I’ve provided a pretty extensive summary below of Hamas’ activities, its history and ideology.  I'm sorry that it is so long, but I don't know how else to convey the information. 

Hamas Showers Deadly Rockets into Israeli Cities

Hamas and its proxies have launched more than 1,000 rockets at Israel since the violent takeover of the Gaza Strip in June 2007.  These rockets purposefully target vulnerable southern Israeli cities such as Sderot and nearby environs, landing in or near private homes, schools, colleges, and daycare and recreation centers. In March 2008, Hamas stepped up the intensity and effectiveness of these attacks, using more powerful and longer range Grad (Katyusha-like) missiles to hit the city of Ashkelon.  Israeli military officials have noted that some of these missiles have components that likely were manufactured in Iran and they warn that Hamas artillery may soon be able to reach well inside Israel, threatening millions of Israeli civilians.

These attacks have already killed at least 12 Israeli civilians, and wounded scores more, including children.  On February 27, a rocket killed Roni Yihye, a 47-year old student and the father of four children, while he was on the campus of Sapir College, on the outskirts of Sderot.   On that day alone, 40 rockets were launched from Gaza.   Israeli hospitals are dealing with numerous children badly injured in these attacks.  On February 9, Osher Twito, 8, and his brother Rami, 19, were seriously injured when they were at an ATM withdrawing money to buy a birthday present for their father.  One of Osher's legs had to be amputated as a result of his injuries.

The psychological damage of these near-hourly attacks cannot be minimized.  When the alarm is sounded, no matter where they are or what they are doing - - taking a shower, shopping for food, going to work - - residents have 15 seconds to reach shelter or risk being killed or injured.  In Sderot, mental health professionals have documented the trauma experienced by children and adults alike, many of whom endure nightmares, panic attacks, and are afraid of going about their daily lives for fear of being caught unprotected during a missile strike.  For the children in Sderot, the trauma is most intense.  They are more accustomed to daily siren alarms and the regular rush to a bomb shelter than to an innocent play date with friends. 

Israel's Actions to Defend Its Population

There is no doubt Israel has the right and responsibility to ensure the safety and security of its citizens.  Yet, Israel has shown tremendous restraint in the face of this deadly onslaught. The IDF has tried to stop the attacks through a variety of legitimate military measures designed to comply with the norms of international humanitarian law.  Sadly, none has succeeded in stopping the lethal rockets purposefully aimed at Israeli civilians going about their daily routines.  Israel also has an obligation to ensure that its military operations are designed to minimize the harm to civilians -- a task made all the more difficult when Hamas places its rocket launchers next to homes, schools and hospitals.  In spite of the constant rocket attacks, some targeting the crossings from Israel into Gaza, the crossings remain open and active for the delivery of goods for the humanitarian needs of the Palestinian people in Gaza.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert stated in his report to the Cabinet on March 2, "It must be noted that the State of Israel defends its residents in the south and . . . nothing will deter us from continuing to defend our residents.  Nobody has the right to preach morality to the State of Israel for taking basic action to defend itself and prevent hundreds of thousands of residents of the south from continuing to be exposed to incessant firing that disrupts their lives."

As Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said on March 3 in a briefing to the diplomatic corps, "It's a terrible loss for a mother when a child dies during a terror attack or an Israeli attack. For the families, it's the same horrible pain and grief. But it's not the same when it comes to the moral judgment. It's not a matter of suffering; it's a matter of taking the right stand. And while the terrorists are targeting Israeli civilians directly, deliberately, without a real cause, the Israeli soldiers are trying to target specifically the places from which we are being attacked. And during these operations, civilians are also paying the price. But it's like in your own neighborhoods. Just imagine a situation on your street, in your backyard, in your neighbor's backyard, where somebody launches rockets. It's not normal. I'm sure that you would say that you are not willing to accept it. And if you have children you would say, "Not in my neighborhood; I'm not going to put my children at risk."

Israel made clear with its 2005 disengagement that it has no desire to rule the Gaza Strip.  At that time, Israel unilaterally uprooted 8,000 settlers from their homes and removed its military installations.  It was hoped that the Palestinians would use the Israeli withdrawal as an opportunity to build a responsible and effective governing infrastructure.  Unfortunately, soon after, the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas seized control of the territory and turned it into a launching pad for terrorism and extremism.

At the November 2007 Annapolis Conference, Israel and the Palestinian Authority committed to serious negotiations, including on final-status issues, with the support of the international community.  Hamas' unceasing attacks seek to sabotage efforts for peace, and provoke a crisis that will cripple the negotiating process.
 
History and Ideology of Hamas

Hamas is an Islamic extremist terrorist organization based in the West Bank and Gaza Strip that calls for the eradication of Israel. The groups are responsible for hundreds of terrorist attacks since the early 1990s, including deadly suicide attacks in Israeli population centers, causing the death of thousands of civilians. Their terrorist operations continue today.

Hamas (the Arabic acronym for Harakat Al-Muqawama Islamiya fi Filistin, or the Islamic Resistance Movement in Palestine) was established in 1988 by Sheikh Ahmad Yassin, then a preacher with the Muslim Brotherhood in Gaza. Its ultimate goal is the establishment of an Islamic Palestinian state ruled by Islamic theocratic law in place of the State of Israel. Hamas’ covenant, issued in 1988, is replete with anti-Semitism, and echoes the notorious Protocols of the Elders of Zion and charges Jews with an international conspiracy to gain control of the world. In Hamas' world-view, Islamic precepts forbid a Jewish state in the area known as Palestine; the Jewish people have no legitimate connection to the land of Israel. As its covenant proclaims, "The land of Palestine is an Islamic trust... It is forbidden to anyone to yield or concede any part of it... Israel will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it..." To this end, the leaders of Hamas have traditionally denounced compromise with Israel as a betrayal of the Palestinian cause, although recently some Hamas officials have softened their stances, calling for a temporary Israeli withdrawal to 1967 borders as a stepping stone for the “liberation” of all of “Palestine.”

Funding for the group has traditionally come from Iran, Muslim charities around the world and sympathetic sources in the Gulf and Saudi Arabia.

Hamas is both a terrorist organization and a mass social, political and religious movement. It operates schools, medical clinics and youth groups. The division of Hamas into military and political/ social wings has led many observers to erroneously assume that the social wing of Hamas is completely separate from its military wing. However, funds raised for the social programs of Hamas free up other funds for the military wing. Moreover, Hamas' military wing utilizes the organization's social wing for indoctrination and recruitment. The social, cultural, religious and educational institutions of Hamas are well-known venues for anti-Israel and anti-Jewish hatred and serve as recruitment centers for suicide bombers.

Since 1994, Hamas has been the main organization perpetrating terrorist attacks in major Israeli cities with targets including shopping malls, cafes, buses and hotels. Its most deadly attacks include the March 2002 suicide bombing of the Park Hotel in Netanya, killing 30 and injuring 140 during their Passover seder; the August 2001 suicide bombing of the Sbarro pizzeria in Jerusalem killing 15 and injuring 130; and the June 2001 suicide bombing at the Dolphinarium, nightclub in Tel Aviv, killing 21 and injuring 120, most of them youths.

In the years of the Oslo process Hamas positioned itself as the main opposition to the Palestinian Authority and its negotiations with Israel. From 2000-2004, however, many of their terrorist operations were approved by and coordinated with the Palestinian Authority. Since his election, PA President Mahmoud Abbas has attempted to induce these groups to cease their terrorist operations, and although Hamas officially agreed to a cease-fire, they have conducted some attacks. Hamas entered the Palestinian political arena and secured nearly half of the municipal seats up for grabs in the January 2005 Palestinian elections.

michaelintp

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #176 on: March 30, 2008, 12:13:09 pm »
Also, if anyone really wants to get a realistic picture of the "fresh views" really expressed by Hamas leaders, here are some representative comments:

Hamas in Their Own Words
   
"…the Jewish faith does not wish for peace nor stability, since it is a faith that is based on murder: 'I kill, therefore I am' … Israel is based only on blood and murder in order to exist, and it will disappear, with Allah's will, through blood and Shahids [martyrs]."
Dr. Yussuf Al-Sharafi, Hamas representative, April 12, 2007; as reported by Palestinian Media Watch, April 23, 2007)

"This is Islam, that was ahead of its time with regards to human rights in the treatment of prisoners, but our nation was tested by the cancerous lump, that is the Jews, in the heart of the Arab nation… Be certain that America is on its way to utter destruction, America is wallowing [in blood] today in Iraq and Afghanistan, America is defeated and Israel is defeated, and was defeated in Lebanon and Palestine… Make us victorious over the community of infidels… Allah, take the Jews and their allies, Allah, take the Americans and their allies… Allah, annihilate them completely and do not leave anyone of them."
Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Bahar, acting Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council, April 20, 2007; as reported by Palestinian Media Watch, April 23, 2007)
 
"We will not betray promises we made to God to continue the path of Jihad and resistance until the liberation of Palestine, all of Palestine. . . So be assured doctor Ayman, and all those who love Palestine like yourself, that Hamas is still the group you knew when it was founded and it will never abandon its path."
(Hamas statement in response to criticism by Al-Qaeda's Ayman al-Zawahri, March 12, 2007)
 
"[The Tel Aviv suicide bombing] is an an act of self defense . . . [it is] a natural result of the continued Israeli crimes against our people."
(Sami Abu Zuhri, Hamas spokesman, April 17, 2006)
 
"[Hamas will] never recognize the legitimacy of the Zionist state that was founded on our land."
(Khaled Mashaal, Hamas leader, February 3, 2006, Al-Hayyat al-Jedida)
 
"[Hamas] will not change a single word in its covenant [which is calling for the destruction of Israel]."
(Mahmoud Zahar, Hamas leader, after casting his vote in the Gaza Strip, January 25, 2006, Ha'aretz)
 
"They have tried to pressure Hamas to abandon resistance and to abandon arms. They tried to pressure Hamas to abandon its strategic choice in Palestine, all of Palestine. They tried to pressure Hamas to recognize the legitimacy of the occupation. But they failed… We say Hamas will not change its constant principles."
(Ismail Haniyah, Hamas leader, at an election rally in Gaza, January 20, 2006, Reuters)

"The constants and the strategy of Hamas do not change according to circumstances. Hamas will stay faithful to jihad, to resistance, to guns, to Palestine and to Jerusalem."
(Ismail Haniyah, Hamas leader, at an election rally in Gaza, January 20, 2006, Gulf Daily News, Bahrain)

"Hamas is not hostile to Jews because they are Jews. We are hostile to them because they occupied our land and expelled our people…. We did not say we want to throw the Jews in the sea or feed them to sharks. We just said that there is a land called occupied Palestine. It was burglarized and it needs to be returned to the Palestinian people."
(Ismail Hanieh, Hamas leader, January 18, 2006, AP)

"We do not recognize the Israeli enemy, nor his right to be our neighbor, nor to stay (on the land), nor his ownership of any inch of land. . . . We are interested in restoring our full rights to return all the people of Palestine to the land of Palestine. Our principles are clear: Palestine is a land of Waqf (Islamic trust), which can not be given up."
(Mahmoud Zahar, Hamas leader and candidate to the Palestinian legislative council, Palestinian TV, January 17, 2006, Newsday)

"The program [of Hamas-backed list to legislative council] sets out the details and means for its implementation over the next four years, while the [Hamas] charter talks about vision and strategy…The movement is adhering to the constants and strategies outlined in the [Hamas] charter."
(Hamas spokesman, Sami Abu-Zuhri, explains to Al-Sharq al-Awsat that there is no contradiction between Hamas' platform for the election and its charter, which calls for the destruction of Israel, January 13, 2006, BBC Monitoring)

"The Taliban are 1,000 times more honorable than the American occupation and its collaborators… We are not a copy of the Taliban... Judge us according to what we are. Everyone must stop blaming the Taliban for things that in fact characterize the people of the West, who seek to turn the international community into a swamp of corruption and destruction, and to spread abomination and disease in the name of absolute freedom….
"We are part of Allah's promise that Islam will enter Palestine and every home in the world, with a revelation of the power of Allah the Omnipotent, and a revelation of the inferiority of the infidels. Hamas is leading this plan in Gaza, the West Bank, and the 1948 territories, and the Muslim Brotherhood is leading it everywhere else. This is part of Allah's predestination."
(Dr. Mahmoud Zahar, interview in Arabic with elaph.com, October 11, 2005, MEMRI)

"The vanquishing of the enemy in Gaza does not mean that this stage has ended. We still have Jerusalem and the pure West Bank. We will not rest until we liberate all our land, all our Palestine. We do not distinguish between what was occupied in the 1940s and what was occupied in the 1960s. Our Jihad continues, and we still have a long way to go. We will continue until the very last usurper is driven out of our land."
(Sheik Nizar Rayan, Hamas "political" leader, at a rally in Gaza, Al-Jazeera TV on September 16, 2005, MEMRI)

"We stand here on our liberated land, near the armistice borders. We remember when Sharon said that Netzarim is like Tel Aviv. Hamas has said, via the lion of Palestine [Rantisi], that Gaza is like Tel Aviv. The promise that has been fulfilled and will be fulfilled in the future, oh Sharon, is the promise of Allah, and the promise of Hamas. Behold, Palestine is being liberated, Allah willing…
 
"We have come here in multitudes to proclaim that Hirbiya and Ashkelon will be taken by the mujahideen. We have come here to say that the weapons of the resistance that you see here will remain, Allah willing, so that we can liberate Palestine – all of Palestine – from the Sea to the River, whether they like it or not."
(Mushir al-Masri, Hamas spokesman, at a rally in Gaza, Al-Jazeera TV on September 16, 2005, MEMRI)

"We knew that Bush is the enemy of God, the enemy of Islam and Muslims. America declared war against God. Sharon declared war against God, and God declared war against America, Bush and Sharon."
(Hamas leader Dr. Abdel Aziz Rantisi (killed in April 2004) at a rally in Gaza, March 28, 2004, AP)

"The Zionists didn't carry out their operation without getting the consent of the terrorist American Administration, and it must take responsibility for this crime. All the Muslims of the world will be honored to join in on the retaliation for this crime." 
(Hamas statement issued after the assassination of Sheik Ahmed Yassin, Chicago Tribune, March 25, 2004)

"We have never targeted an American target or American interests despite its hostility. Until now we did not. I am talking about now. In the future, God knows."
(Musa Abu Marzuq, Hamas leader, interview with Reuters, March 25, 2004)
 
''She [first Hamas woman suicide bomber] is not going to be the last because the march of resistance will continue until the Islamic flag is raised, not only over the minarets of Jerusalem, but over the whole universe.''
(Hamas leader, Mahmoud Zahar, at funeral of Reem Raiyshi, who murdered 4 people, January 15, 2004, AP)

"By God, we will not leave one Jew in Palestine. We will fight them with all the strength we have. This is our land, not the Jews…
"You will have no security except outside the homeland Palestine…. We have Allah on our side, and we have the sons of the Arab and Islamic nation on our side."
(Abdel Aziz Rantisi, Hamas leader, June 10, 2003, interview with Al-Jazeera, Jerusalem Post)

"America is implementing Zionist Israeli policy to serve the Zionist project in Palestine. The battle America is undertaking is designed to allow Israel to remain in the Palestinian homeland….
"Zionist Israeli and Jewish policy is to strike every power emerging in the Arab and Muslim world… Any country that develops power threatening to this entity (Israel), they want to smash it."
(Sheik Ahmed Yassin (killed in March 2004), January 30, 2003, Teheran Times)

"Suicide attacks and jihad reinforce national unity in the ranks….Our voice is one of struggle, of jihad and of suicide….Iraq could win if it equipped its citizens with explosive belts and turned them into human bombs."
(Sheik Ahmed Yassin, interview with the Muslim website Alskifa, January 10, 2003, translated by Israel Defense Forces)

"We reject this US domination and this frantic war. From our side, we concentrate on striking blows to it here in Palestine, with the aim of ironing out the Jewish entity in Palestine, which is the cause of trouble in the world….

"America… always works in favor of the existence of the Israeli entity… This is mainly due to the Zionist-Christian conviction and the 70 million Americans who follow the Protestant creed, which is in favor of Jews against the Muslims. The same applies to most of Britain's population…
"Because the Israeli and American enemies are ravaging the earth; they do not believe in anything besides power. The Ummah must adopt the principle of Jihad and fighting the enemies."
(Sheik Ahmed Yassin, interview with Australian Muslim youth magazine, Nida'ul Islam, June/ July 2002)

"The Movement within two months [after the intifada broke] was able to launch qualitative operations that shook the world… there are qualitative Jihad operations such as those in Natanya and Khadera. We are proud of such operations and the next days will witness better and bigger ones….
"I say that the final battle will result in our victory and that this land will reject this enemy similar to its predecessors….
"It is not a must that it would be in 2027 for it could be five years earlier or ten years later. The important thing is that the equation revolves round 2027 and the Hebrew state would end Insha'allah [God willing]."
(Sheik Ahmed Yassin, interview, Palestine-info, March 2001)

Early Hamas communiqués (distributed by Islamic Association for Palestine)

"Come to jihad, come to jihad, come to martyrdom…

"Those thirsty for Jihad all over the world. For the sake of Allah. For liberating the land of Palestine and Jerusalem….

"We declared and continue to declare now, that a Jew is a Jew… [do not trust them when they say they want peace because they act only] to serve their religion and their people."
(Hamas communiqué, March 9, 1989, translated and distributed in the U.S. by the Islamic Association for Palestine)

"The Jews: killed the prophets…slaughtered the innocent…imprisoned our pious…NO PEACE WITH THE MURDERERS."
(Hamas communiqué, October 5, 1988, translated and distributed in the U.S. by the Islamic Association for Palestine) 

"The Nazi Jews tried different methods…
"Let everyone know that Hamas…is only against Jews and those twisted in their manner… it realizes the Jews' methods in trying to cause hostility and friction between people…
"We should lend punches to the Jews wherever possible [to commemorate Muhammad's defeat of one of the Jewish tribes of Arabia]."
(Hamas communiqué, September 8, 1988, translated and distributed in the U.S. by the Islamic Association for Palestine) 

Offline Redjack

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #177 on: March 30, 2008, 12:34:06 pm »
Yeah. Sure sounds like those folks over there have a lot to contend with.

Why does that matter to us, again?

And by "us" I mean Americans.




Soon you will come to know. When the bullet hits the bone.

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #178 on: March 30, 2008, 01:25:15 pm »
it is not their behavior which is destroying the planet it's ours.

In my ongoing and probably futile campaign to curb hyperbole, I'd like to point out that we humans are not likely to destroy the planet although we may succeed in making it uninhabitable for homo sapiens and many other species. Others will fill the void.

I would also like to encourage all participants to follow karaszero's lead in exhibiting civility towards all (or continuing to do so as the case may be) -- no matter how frustrated you may find yourselves.
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline karaszero

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Re: Obama's Church Endorsed Terrorist Organization HAMAS!
« Reply #179 on: March 30, 2008, 02:24:40 pm »
thank you Curtis. I have a question though, if the planet does become uninhabitable wouldn't that be the same as destroyed?