Author Topic: Black Panther #41  (Read 16417 times)

Offline Seven

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2008, 06:45:01 am »
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And once the first army is defeated, by however means, what's to stop the Skrulls from just sending a second more powerful army next time anyway?

...they sent the ship back home...with the Commander sending a lie to his wife that the won the war...and with all the skrull dead, with there blood saying don't f with wakanda.

It was a cool story...

Offline Naki

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2008, 07:07:55 am »

Well she has a mini coming up...he is not going to have one in months...could that be a reason? Can he get some focus, because he will not get any in months ahead.






Thats a cop out.  Her mini (which came about as a result of the marriage) should have nothing to do with her portrayal in BP.  Some Storm fans unjustifiably complain that RH writes Storm in BPs shadow or that she is mere wallpaper in the book.  How when Aaron actually does write her in his shadow and she is damn sure no more that a cute wallpaper in SI it is OK.  That is problematic and an unnecessary double standard.  I'm sorry she could have been written out of the series and the arc would not have been impacted in the least.  While RH can improve in many ways with his writing, I always felt that he tried to create situations in which BP and Storm could display their worth without relegating anyone to second fiddle.  Some issues were more successful than others but at least he tried.  Aaron made no such attempt.  Yes it is BPs book but he is married to a very powerful mutant and writers need to write well enough that both characters are depicted well; otherwise, what is the point of having him married to any powerful woman least of all Storm.  If that was the case he just should have married Monica Lynne and been done with it.  She could have been his Mary Jane to his Spider Man.  But this is not the case and the book can be much more interesting because he didn't marry a woman who couldn't help him in the least and would always be a source of attack from his enemies.  The purpose of the marriage, IMO is for him to have a strong partner who can fight by his side but also who isn't afraid to challenge him.  Aaron did a great BP and there were many things about the arc that I truly enjoyed which is why I am so disappointed with the final issue.  His Storm, not RH's Storm, reflected many of the negative portrayals that marriage haters have argued for years.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 11:29:10 am by Naki »

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2008, 07:20:01 am »
And I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why we can't have a Storm miniseries at the same time as a BP ongoing? They didn't put the main book on hold while the EDJ minieries was going on. Even if thy excuse is that the events in the Storm mini will directly effect the future status quo of the BP book, so they don't want to give anything away yet (&, for the record, that's not the excuse we've gotten, because neither Hudlin nor Marvel as told us ANYTHING), you could still have a guest-writer tell some untold stories of BP in this title while the mini goes on. BP has a long history that hasn't been told. You could either tell stories in his past, or go back & tell some stories of T'Chaka as BP, or any of the previous BP's in history. Even Priest had a 2-issue fill-in during his run. So why is this book on hold?

Offline Naki

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2008, 07:29:36 am »
And I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why we can't have a Storm miniseries at the same time as a BP ongoing? They didn't put the main book on hold while the EDJ minieries was going on. Even if thy excuse is that the events in the Storm mini will directly effect the future status quo of the BP book, so they don't want to give anything away yet (&, for the record, that's not the excuse we've gotten, because neither Hudlin nor Marvel as told us ANYTHING), you could still have a guest-writer tell some untold stories of BP in this title while the mini goes on. BP has a long history that hasn't been told. You could either tell stories in his past, or go back & tell some stories of T'Chaka as BP, or any of the previous BP's in history. Even Priest had a 2-issue fill-in during his run. So why is this book on hold?

Yeah that is really annoying me.  The mini is being hyped as "Storm returns to the X-Men."  That doesn't sound very encouraging for people who want the marriage to stay in good standing.  It is also misleading considering she has already "returned" to the pages of both Uncanny and Astonishing.  Perhaps it means that after the mini she will be returning permanently. >:(

Offline Seven

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2008, 12:05:41 pm »
Maybe Mr. Hudlin should at least say something.

So I can agree with that...

Offline stanleyballard

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2008, 01:20:31 pm »
It's fine if BP ends for several months on this note...it's a serious high note and per the sales people in the comic buying public seem to like the change.  Mr. Hudlin is probably busy doing the BP show on BET and several other projects and does not have time to comment on the comic book (he did state that he did not go into this planning to do anything beyond a six issue premise).  Evidently, fans of the X franchise who rightly believe that she is strongly tied to that team are dictating some of the marketing plans of Storm's mini which will effect BP so they have decided to either relaunch the book with a new title or start the title back at #1.....it makes sense from a marketing standpoint.

Offline Seven

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2008, 02:52:20 pm »
It's fine if BP ends for several months on this note...it's a serious high note and per the sales people in the comic buying public seem to like the change.  Mr. Hudlin is probably busy doing the BP show on BET and several other projects and does not have time to comment on the comic book (he did state that he did not go into this planning to do anything beyond a six issue premise).  Evidently, fans of the X franchise who rightly believe that she is strongly tied to that team are dictating some of the marketing plans of Storm's mini which will effect BP so they have decided to either relaunch the book with a new title or start the title back at #1.....it makes sense from a marketing standpoint.

It makes sense if the book is relaunched as 'Storm and the Black Panther' or 'Storm and the Panther'.... marketing wise, that should really happen.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2008, 03:28:49 pm »
This sort of logic is the reason comics over all are not selling, it turns off a lot of folk. This is a fantasy, it's not real...folk are getting *far* too personal and serious... and no one uses any common sense or imagination. No offense...

Just imagine Storm using her "comic power" to destroy the attacking Skrulls: would that *not* alert the larger fleet? Wouldn't that bring more skrulls? What happens when She tires? They were already out numbered 3 to 1, does it makes sense to make that number larger?

Hurricane = Larger more powerful Skrull army attacking Wakanda.

Storm is a warrior with or without powers... and we got a glimpse of that.

OK, but there is a flaw in that logic.  Defeating the Skrulls in a land war still has the same outcome; another larger more powerful fleet would attack.   Since SI isn't over, another invasion fleet is very possible.  They won a battle, they didn't win the war.

And now they have a worn out army, their tech isn't working, they need to rebuild.  See to me, this is the issue.  JA wrote a good story, but he's not a military writer.  He has the General making a stupid blunder.  The guy groups all his ships together and flies in nice like and allows entire force to be hit with a single blast.  Any comptent leader would spread out his resources, attacking from multiple directions and waves.

Then from BP's side--Storm could have taken out the first round of Skrulls without endangering his standing army.  If they do come back, Storm is still fresh, and his entire military structure is ready for round two.  Unless of course, you want to imply that BP is afraid that they cannot beat the Skrulls in the long run.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2008, 03:30:22 pm »
to be honest Storm fighting hand to hand was very effective and showed that she is just as tough as BP and an equal warrior. 

Of course, technically speaking, Storm really wasn't shown doing much of anything.  Single thrust through the back is not skillful.  But Storm should not be an equally tough and skilled warrior with BP.  Remember what SI often points out about how much training, eugenics and such goes into BP.  BP has only a handful of equals and they're not people who have other powers to use.  Storm is formidable, but I don't see her HTH in BP's class

And as for Storm using her power, I did not need to see that and I'm glad we did not see her cut loose and resort to using her powers to get rid of the Skrulls.

If she had used her powers in Part 1 and 2, the story would have been over way too quickly, and the arc would never have reached 3 issues. Once Storm unleases all her fury,it's over. To me, it was necessary for Storm to not use her power in order to make the story more suspenseful and to last longer. Storm using her powers would have been an easy fix, in my opinion.

Also, I really didn't need to be told why Storm couldn't use her power. I was not interested in that at all. I do not need to see Storm use her power in every issue in this book, either. I think it is a good story when you can have Storm solve a problem or problems without resorting to her mutant abilities.

We were given a reason why she wasn't using her powers; it was BP's plan.  But Storm not using her powers;  sorry, Storm not using them doesn't make much sense, because that's her normal operating mode.  You don't go into a war and say, "why don't you blindfold yourself and tie one hand behind your back," because it doesn't fit someone's plans.  What you do, is make new plans.

Offline Open palm

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2008, 08:41:41 pm »
Quote
And once the first army is defeated, by however means, what's to stop the Skrulls from just sending a second more powerful army next time anyway?

...they sent the ship back home...with the Commander sending a lie to his wife that the won the war...and with all the skrull dead, with there blood saying don't f with wakanda.

It was a cool story...

I liked it. There wasn't any explosive ending, but they got the point out. And if Iron Man sends any troops to try the same thing Wakanda will just send their stinking corpses back at him!
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Offline DJfunkyPuddle

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2008, 10:08:08 pm »
...they sent the ship back home...with the Commander sending a lie to his wife that the won the war...and with all the skrull dead, with there blood saying don't f with wakanda.


I got the impression that the note was made beforehand, in the PDA he was (crawling?) to.



The guy groups all his ships together and flies in nice like and allows entire force to be hit with a single blast.  Any comptent leader would spread out his resources, attacking from multiple directions and waves.



Didn't W'Kabi say that everything in a five mile radius was down? Seems like that would have covered any spread of Skrull ship.  Also, in terms of various tech working, one of the Skrulls said something about most/majority of their armaments were destroyed, not necessarily all of them (issue 39, don't have in front of me).

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2008, 05:29:49 am »
SUPREME ILLUMINATION:

Before I go into anything else,I want to applaud JA for making COMMANDER KVVR such a compelling character.Contrary to the easily despicable cruel and evil villain full of moohahaha's relishing unprovoked and unneeded brutality,thrilling to bloodshed,and possessed of stereotypical megalomaniacal ego,JA crafted a truly capable,very intelligent  being whom I found easy to relate to.This was a pleasant surprise.KVVR hated excessive bloodshed,but he had the iron will and understanding needed to kill his enemy by whatever means; killing his enemy saved his warriors' lives and ensured that he was a step closer with each fallen enemy to retiring peacefully with his wife.His inner monologue regarding his first kill and the many subsequent kills; his genuine concern for his fellow Skrull warriors; his admission that he simply ceased to dream because the faces of his fallen enemies denied him dreams; all of these things and several others marked KVVR as a unique being that really is a decent being at heart.In other circumstances,I could actually see him being friends with BP.KVVR is a strong leader both on the battlefield and in the political arena.He was a family loving being who cherished his wife.Recall that he had essentially wrangled his freedom from the Skrull Empire and all of its politics and was going to make good on his promise to retire at last with his wife...the name KVVR forever draped in glory.I LIKED KVVR.I even liked the conversation that he had with "BP AND ORORO" in the torture room.I liked his complete self-assuredness when dealing with his prisoners AND I liked the way that his inner dialogue noted both the chill glares of BP and ORORO as well as how he noted "BP" take a look at his wife when the torturers began using their knives on "her".0h yeah; I liked how his bravado covered the real reason for his exit,too.I absolutely and completely disagree with the notion that writing the final arc from KVVR's perspective in ANY WAY detracted from this arc.Instead,it enhanced the coolness and illness and raw dawg DAYAMN factor of the badassery of BP.I really liked that.I also liked--on a completely unrelated note--how the Skrull Pym used BP's reflexes and Quicksilver's speed to dodge an attack that should have atomized him.BP being mentioned in other areas of the MU shows that TPTB at MU are still committed to him in unprecedented ways.

Newho,back on to JA BP...

...it's too bad that KVVR got killed to death.Lol.I liked him.But his momma Skrull shoulda told him as a child:"How do you say 'wtfpwnage' in Skrull? WAKANDA!!" Lol. Furthermore,let us all bask in the wrongness of ourselves.We were all offended or at least quite surprised that JA would write something as seemingly stupid as a Skrull pulling a sword on Storm; and we were all surprised at how easily BP got taken down by some kind of taser.Now we see that BP and Storm were simply setting our Skrulls up for a brilliant reversal that caught them completely and totally unawares.While I did opine that BP and STORM were setting the Skrulls up,the how and why of JA's explanation of our Royal Badass Majesties' actions was absolutely lovely.Gotta give you what Fox news would call a Terrorist Fist Jab...MY BAD,JA!...I meant a "pound" for that one.

On to the issues of Storm,etc.,in this story.

There WERE gaffes and holes in this arc.The Skrulls not shapeshifting.Commader KVVR having the Skrulls entering in a single mass isn't unusual because they initially thought that Wakanda's defense had been compromised by their sleeper agents.Remember that,Luthor Dare? I completely agree that Storm didn't cut loose,and I wondered instantly why she didn't...and I recalled almost immediately that there were other Skrulls who could collapse down upon Wakanda.Even if they came again in a wave,BP would be prepared due to his PRIEST ERA BP Contingency Plans...and I don't think that those plans called for STORM's help or ANYBODY ELSE'S help.

But I agree wholeheartedly with the statement that JA should've let us know this within the story itself.Same with the lack of shapeshifting in Skrulls going h2h with the Wakandans.There SHOULD HAVE BEEN a truly compelling reason ARTICULATED IN THE STORY as to WHY our Queen STORM simply didn't do away with the Skrulls.Yes we can all come up with reasonable suggestions why thus and so did or didn't occur,but it IS the WRITER'S RESPONSIBILITY to MAKE THE PLOT MORE CLEAR to the reader.Basically,if WE THE READERS can come up with explanations on the fly for JA's story? JA has ZERO EXCUSE for NOT having his explanations lined up and ready to go WHEN HE FIRST DREAMED THE STORY UP.I am especially befuddled by this because JA most definitely knows his way around tightly focused plots,pacing,surprise twists,characterization,and all aspects of quality writing.There's no excuse for these slip ups...even if RH is going to answer all of this when he gets back.

But despite all of that? I.LOVED.THIS.JOINT.

All of the aforementioned gaffes would have made the arc EVEN BETTER...no doubt.But this story was still damn good.Period.Was BP whoopin Skrull ass in grand style or wasn't he? Did he not display that oft spoken of,vaunted brilliance and cunning and misdirection? Did Storm and BP NOT just MASSACRE a WHOLE BRIDGE of SKRULL WARRIORS? H2H,no less.AND STORM LED THE CHARGE!!

Even the battle happening off panel--while not as satisfying as a beautifully detailed battle scene specifically showing the King and Queen just wreckin mofos--was tite.JA had the camera zoom in on KVVR in the last moments of his life as he was writing a comforting letter of sweet lies to his wonderful wife,while juxtaposing this tender dying moment with a slowly widening screen shot that showed that STORM and BP just utterly massacred the Skrulls in their command vessel.That was dope.Exactly like pulling back slowly and dramatically for a panoramic shot of a battlefield,cuz that's what it was.I was feelin that shot.

Wtfpwnage in Skrull=Wakanda.Lesson learned.

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Offline stanleyballard

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2008, 08:20:16 am »
Aaron's story was not perfect but it was spot on and full of tense, intricate characterization, solid pacing and BP finally had a very strong voice.  BP was fully in BP.  Hats off to Mr. Aaron!

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2008, 08:32:24 am »
Storm, as a character, belongs in more "cosmic" stories, while Black Panther belongs in down-to-Earth stories. Putting the two together is a mistake, because one of them will always be out of place in whatever story you do. It's like all the controversy over the Silver Surfer armlock thing. Well, Black Panther never should've been put in a position where he's fighting someone like Silver Surfer anyway, because SS is out of BP's league. Just like Killmonger, and the other kinds of threats that BP should usually face, is no real threat to someone like Storm.
If that is the case then Wonder Woman shouldnt be dating Nemesis and she should stay single or dont date at all. But for some odd reason it does work because he can shape-shift. Look what happened to him he got stung by some killer wasp/bee and almost died.

Thats a cop out.  Her mini (which came about as a result of the marriage) should have nothing to do with her portrayal in BP.  Some Storm fans unjustifiably complain that RH writes Storm in BPs shadow or that she is mere wallpaper in the book.  How when Aaron actually does write her in his shadow and she is damn sure no more that a cute wallpaper in SI it is OK.  That is problematic and an unnecessary double standard.  I'm sorry she could have been written out of the series and the arc would not have been impacted in the least.  While RH can improve in many ways with his writing, I always felt that he tried to create situations in which BP and Storm could display their worth without relegating anyone to second fiddle.  Some issues were more successful than others but at least he tried.  Aaron made no such attempt.  Yes it is BPs book but he is married to a very powerful mutant and writers need to write well enough that both characters are depicted well; otherwise, what is the point of having him married to any powerful woman least of all Storm.  If that was the case he just should have married Monica Lynne and been done with it.  She could have been his Mary Jane to his Spider Man.  But this is not the case and the book can be much more interesting because he didn't marry a woman who couldn't help him in the least and would always be a source of attack from his enemies.  The purpose of the marriage, IMO is for him to have a strong partner who can fight by his side but also who isn't afraid to challenge him.  Aaron did a great BP and there were many things about the arc that I truly enjoyed which is why I am so disappointed with the final issue.  His Storm, not RH's Storm, reflected many of the negative portrayals that marriage haters have argued for years.
Thank you because sudddenly BP always have to save this girl all the time and it will be the same story. I can guarantee that hudlin haters would place the blame on him as usual. I was just as disappointed as well. I really wanted her to at least do something to make her use her powers and nothing happened. Yes the first 2 books are good but there is not even a clue of what will happen for the upcoming issues.
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Offline stanleyballard

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Re: Black Panther #41
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2008, 09:46:00 am »
Mr. Hudlin has also been guilty of at least some of the blame for his haters - he has to remember that the marketing department at Marvel does not follow his thoughts on getting diverse audiences to read books like Black Panther and some of the over the top comments/depictions he put in BP seem too much like a slap in the face (even to supporters)...say what you have to say thru a detailed storyline and not one liners.  Make a more important statement by writing the most sophisticated version of BP ever with diverse people of color as supporting characters with shades of humanity.  BP himself can represent the best that any man of African descent can hope to become or close to it - write him front and center consistently with Storm as a very strong lead character at his side and that should be the best statement to make from this series (not pot shots at a small group on the internet).  Strong characterization, detailed plot lines and solid dialogue should be Mr. Hudlin's final plan for his future with BP.  Then the haters will be as insignificant as they should have been a while ago.