Author Topic: Wolverine movie  (Read 14861 times)

Offline Mastrmynd

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2009, 08:53:51 am »
B-
i liked it.

it was better than x3.
it's up there with x2.
:)

plus i think it was also used as a set up for xmen origins: first class.

it's no dark knight or iron man,but it was a decent summer action movie.


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Offline voodoochild

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2009, 10:50:17 am »
<<voodoochild:Terrible.Fails on just about every level.

I'm gonna go ahead and call it now...Xmen Origins-Wolverine: first flop of the summer...>>

You do realize you are predicting it be flop when no one else here (YET) shares your view that it was terrible.  It is like seven to one liking it.  I mean no one is giving it an A, but (myself) including are giving it Cs. 
And since in one weekend it has made like 2/3rds of its production costs (if I heard right), then surely it will make enough, esp with international sales to not be a flop. 

I hated this movie, but I won't ruin it for those who haven't seen it yet so...

SPOILERS!!!!





Oh.  Didn't realize the Hudlin Board was the last word on a movies success.  My bad. ;D
All kidding aside, a "C" is not a good grade.  That's average.  Aight.  Just OK.  I know wer'e all happy to see so many of our favorite characters brought to the big screen, but c'mon.  Let's be real.  There's so much wrong with the movie thematically.  Unnecessary, underdeveloped characters with ambiguous powers. 
 
So Agent Zero's mutant ability was that he was kinda like a Grammaton Cleric with guns that hadn't been invented yet? Right?  So why not give him the gun with the adamantium bullets? 
 
The hobbit from Lost controlled energy, (I guess), but let's not have him take out the power to the Nigerian compound so we can show that lame ass Equilibrium/90's HK ripoff sequence. 
 
 I still don't know what Deadpool's powers were supposed to be.  What, hella good with swords that magically deflect and split bullets?  That's a mutant ability?  And with him deflecting BOXES of bullets like a marching band drum major, wouldn't that have put his team in harm's way?  When he gets turned into Weapon XI, explain to me how he bends his arm when an adamantium katana blade comes from his wrist?  He's got all of these powers, and the best he can do is a bunch of phony looking Wushu moves.  The teleporting was cool, but we've already seen that.  And seen it done better in X2 BTW.  How do you decapitate someone with an adamantium fused spinal column?  If that's possible, shouldn't the adamantium bullets have blown the back of Wolverine's head off?

And before anybody asks, no, I'm not familiar with most of these characters from the comics.  As a filmgoer, I shouldn't have to be.  If I need to go and dig through dozens of Xmen/Xmen related back issues to figure out what's going on in a movie, the movie failed.

Wolverine did REALLY well this weekend, I'll give it that.  But looking down the road at the competition, I still think it's going to struggle to make it's production costs back domestically.

Offline voodoochild

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2009, 11:17:23 am »

Uh... Yeah, the point was that they begin in the 1800's and that they have been together all this time. Healing factor allows them to age slowly. It's a progression toward what's supposed to be 10 years or so before the events of X-Men 1. The placement of Cyclops in high school was supposed to be the reference.

I got that.  My point was that the film opens in like 1830 or something, right?  Wolvie and Sabretooth are children.  Maybe 10 and 14 respectively.  The next scene shows them fighting in the Civil War some 30 or so years later and they have aged to men in their late 30's...and they stay that way for the next 100+ years. 


Do you honestly know a thing about the characters in the first place? Or what is central to them? Honestly, that argument reminds me of something that would come out of Ebert's mouth.

I don't know much about the characters at all because I'm watching a movie.  Not reading a comic book.

I can't imagine any story or any character's success/failure being dependent solely on powers or skills. If so, Superman had about four too many movies.

Superman has kryptonite and his middle America whitebred upbringing.  This gives him two critical flaws that can be creatively exploited by talented writers.  Wolverine has nothing.  He can't be killed.  He doesn't age.  He just gets kinda pissed off occasionally.

The point was summed up when the general said "You just spent half a billion dollars making him indestructible... and you're going to destroy him?"

Exactly.  That's just bad writing.  That's like a president commissioning hundreds of nukes be built and then ordering them destroyed five minute after they go on-line.

I'm not saying the plot was perfect. Far from it. The arguments I'm seeing against it, though, seem rather weak. I don't think it's too much to ask that if your audience is going to see a comic book movie... or a sci-fi movie... that they be asked to bring their imagination. Not everything should be spelled out.

The arguments aren't weak.  All the arguments I've seen criticizing this film have all been pretty on point.  Yeah, it's a comic book/sci-fi movie, and you have to bring your imagination.  Yadda yadda.  None of that give a pass to lazy writing, directing, and acting. 

Offline Blanks

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2009, 11:44:28 am »
meh, I'll be waiting for Star Trek next week. Seems like money better spent.

Offline JLI Jesse

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2009, 12:35:49 pm »

I hated this movie, but I won't ruin it for those who haven't seen it yet so...

SPOILERS!!!!


Oh.  Didn't realize the Hudlin Board was the last word on a movies success.  My bad. ;D
All kidding aside, a "C" is not a good grade.  That's average.  Aight.  Just OK.  I know wer'e all happy to see so many of our favorite characters brought to the big screen, but c'mon.  Let's be real.  There's so much wrong with the movie thematically.  Unnecessary, underdeveloped characters with ambiguous powers. 
 
So Agent Zero's mutant ability was that he was kinda like a Grammaton Cleric with guns that hadn't been invented yet? Right?  So why not give him the gun with the adamantium bullets? 
 
The hobbit from Lost controlled energy, (I guess), but let's not have him take out the power to the Nigerian compound so we can show that lame ass Equilibrium/90's HK ripoff sequence. 
 
 I still don't know what Deadpool's powers were supposed to be.  What, hella good with swords that magically deflect and split bullets?  That's a mutant ability?  And with him deflecting BOXES of bullets like a marching band drum major, wouldn't that have put his team in harm's way?  When he gets turned into Weapon XI, explain to me how he bends his arm when an adamantium katana blade comes from his wrist?  He's got all of these powers, and the best he can do is a bunch of phony looking Wushu moves.  The teleporting was cool, but we've already seen that.  And seen it done better in X2 BTW.  How do you decapitate someone with an adamantium fused spinal column?  If that's possible, shouldn't the adamantium bullets have blown the back of Wolverine's head off?

And before anybody asks, no, I'm not familiar with most of these characters from the comics.  As a filmgoer, I shouldn't have to be.  If I need to go and dig through dozens of Xmen/Xmen related back issues to figure out what's going on in a movie, the movie failed.

Wolverine did REALLY well this weekend, I'll give it that.  But looking down the road at the competition, I still think it's going to struggle to make it's production costs back domestically.

The easiest answer some of those questions is, its a movie.  I know that sounds dumb but its true.  How does Deadpool move his arm?  It's a movie.  How does he get decapitated?  It's a movie.  And so on and so on.

Concerning competition, I'm sure Star Trek will have a huge weekend but will then get smacked down by Terminator...and then by Night at the Museum.  They'll all do well, but people always want the next biggest thing.  I think Wolverine accomplished what it needed to, and Wolverine 2 will probably be coming out in the next few years.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 12:37:57 pm by JLI Jesse »

Offline moor

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2009, 12:46:09 pm »
meh, I'll be waiting for Star Trek next week. Seems like money better spent.


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Offline voodoochild

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2009, 01:00:39 pm »

The easiest answer some of those questions is, its a movie.  I know that sounds dumb but its true.  How does Deadpool move his arm?  It's a movie.  How does he get decapitated?  It's a movie.  And so on and so on.

But where does that line of thinking end?  If that's the case, filmmakers can throw any kind of lazy ass illogical crap up on the screen and expect you to pay for it because you don't demand any better.  Same with comics and music and TV.  Yeah, it's just a movie...that they charge us top dollar to see.

Offline Lion

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2009, 01:07:36 pm »

Uh... Yeah, the point was that they begin in the 1800's and that they have been together all this time. Healing factor allows them to age slowly. It's a progression toward what's supposed to be 10 years or so before the events of X-Men 1. The placement of Cyclops in high school was supposed to be the reference.

I got that.  My point was that the film opens in like 1830 or something, right?  Wolvie and Sabretooth are children.  Maybe 10 and 14 respectively.  The next scene shows them fighting in the Civil War some 30 or so years later and they have aged to men in their late 30's...and they stay that way for the next 100+ years. 

And...? They are long-lived. So, what's the problem? What is aging? The gradual breakdown of the body's ability to reproduce its cells. If they can recover from claws ripping out through their flesh, then they can surely recover from the damage to their cells brought on from aging.

Do you honestly know a thing about the characters in the first place? Or what is central to them? Honestly, that argument reminds me of something that would come out of Ebert's mouth.

I don't know much about the characters at all because I'm watching a movie.  Not reading a comic book.

I can't imagine any story or any character's success/failure being dependent solely on powers or skills. If so, Superman had about four too many movies.

Superman has kryptonite and his middle America whitebred upbringing.  This gives him two critical flaws that can be creatively exploited by talented writers.  Wolverine has nothing.  He can't be killed.  He doesn't age.  He just gets kinda pissed off occasionally.

No weaknesses? Can't be killed?

He's HUMAN. That's a freaking big weakness right there. A train runs into Superman, he's not going to feel it. A train runs into Wolverine, not only is he going to feel it, but he's going to flying and might be knocked out for a few days. He may be durable, but he's not invulnerable. His skin will cut. Take a sword to Wolverine's head - like Weapon XI nearly did - and it will fly off. Take a sword to Superman's head and the sword is going to crack. Superman can fly in space, underwater, or into a volcano. Throw Wolverine in space, drop him in molten lava, or sink him to the bottom of Marianna Trench and he's not coming back.

There are possibilities. It's not up to one movie to spell every single one of them out in sparkling detail. What was this movie about? The creation of Wolverine.

And seeing how Magneto threw him around like a ragdoll in previous movies...

The point was summed up when the general said "You just spent half a billion dollars making him indestructible... and you're going to destroy him?"

Exactly.  That's just bad writing.  That's like a president commissioning hundreds of nukes be built and then ordering them destroyed five minute after they go on-line.

No. That's not the bad writing. Don't get me wrong. There was bad writing and plotholes in the script, but that wasn't it. The government made a deal with Wolverine and turned him into a weapon. The government intended to break the deal. Wolverine heard it and snapped. Then, he found out the entire scenario was created just to manipulate him into making a deal he otherwise wouldn't. That's plausible.

Being discriminating enough to sniff out your brother from half a mile away... yet not being able to tell that your lover - though covered with blood with no heartbeat - had no injuries whatsoever. That's weak.

I'm not saying the plot was perfect. Far from it. The arguments I'm seeing against it, though, seem rather weak. I don't think it's too much to ask that if your audience is going to see a comic book movie... or a sci-fi movie... that they be asked to bring their imagination. Not everything should be spelled out.

The arguments aren't weak.  All the arguments I've seen criticizing this film have all been pretty on point.  Yeah, it's a comic book/sci-fi movie, and you have to bring your imagination.  Yadda yadda.  None of that give a pass to lazy writing, directing, and acting. 

Three things central to Wolverine's powers: healing factor, advanced senses, adamantium skeleton. And yet, you pick two of those out to be weaknesses in the character. As if the suspense should be based on how other people would be able to overcome them... or everyone should lay out every single way the character could be defeated.

No. That wasn't what the story was about. This story is about how Wolverine came to be. There were plenty of problems to pick out in that movie in the plot/script alone. Stryker just letting Wolverine walk out of Nigeria. Wolverine just knowing where Wraith is, even though he hasn't talked to anyone in years. Sabretooth looking like a drunken monkey when he runs. Deadpool's lines being lame. Hardly anyone's focusing on stuff like that, though. No... They're talking about "metal skeleton" and "healing factor."

Weak.

The movie was all right, but it could have been better. MUCH better. The writing was the weak link, but people aren't really talking about the writing.

Offline PFunkJAzz

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2009, 03:32:29 pm »
meh, I'll be waiting for Star Trek next week. Seems like money better spent.
Sonds like a plan.

I'm the middle of cramming for exams, so I'm gonna hide out at the 'plex next weekend.

Offline voodoochild

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2009, 03:41:11 pm »

And...? They are long-lived. So, what's the problem? What is aging? The gradual breakdown of the body's ability to reproduce its cells. If they can recover from claws ripping out through their flesh, then they can surely recover from the damage to their cells brought on from aging.

Lol!  I think you're missing my point on purpose.  The problem is that they went from preteens to 30 year olds in thirty years and then completely STOPPED aging for the following 100+ years.  The way their poorly defined aging process would work is that they should have still been kids or at the least teenagers by the time WW1 rolls around.  And I'll give the film a break on this because that's an inherent problem with immortal type characters.  How is it determined when the aging process retards?


No weaknesses? Can't be killed?

He's HUMAN. That's a freaking big weakness right there. A train runs into Superman, he's not going to feel it. A train runs into Wolverine, not only is he going to feel it, but he's going to flying and might be knocked out for a few days. He may be durable, but he's not invulnerable. His skin will cut. Take a sword to Wolverine's head - like Weapon XI nearly did - and it will fly off. Take a sword to Superman's head and the sword is going to crack. Superman can fly in space, underwater, or into a volcano. Throw Wolverine in space, drop him in molten lava, or sink him to the bottom of Marianna Trench and he's not coming back.

There are possibilities. It's not up to one movie to spell every single one of them out in sparkling detail. What was this movie about? The creation of Wolverine.

And seeing how Magneto threw him around like a ragdoll in previous movies...

Really?  Technically he's not human, but I'll play along.  How do you decapitate someone with an adamantium spinal cord?  If you use an adamantium blade, then the adamantium bullets should've taken off the back of his dome and Logan takes that final dirt nap.  Didn't Wolverine get practically vaporized in an atomic explosion recently?  He survived that, right?  So how can he die, again?  And who in this movie was powerful enough to throw him into space?  and actually, yeah, it is a movie's job to create a sense of suspense.  Is the hero going to make it?  Will he be killed by...oh wait.  It's Wolverine we're talking about here.  Of course he won't be killed.  By anything.  Ever.


No. That's not the bad writing. Don't get me wrong. There was bad writing and plotholes in the script, but that wasn't it. The government made a deal with Wolverine and turned him into a weapon. The government intended to break the deal. Wolverine heard it and snapped. Then, he found out the entire scenario was created just to manipulate him into making a deal he otherwise wouldn't. That's plausible. 

So you reveal that you're going to break a deal with the dude with the superhuman senses lying mere feet from you.  I'm sorry.  That's lazy and bad writing.

Being discriminating enough to sniff out your brother from half a mile away... yet not being able to tell that your lover - though covered with blood with no heartbeat - had no injuries whatsoever. That's weak.

Oh, Bro.  I'm in TOTAL agreement with you here.  I just hadn't gotten around to ripping into that bullsh*t!



Three things central to Wolverine's powers: healing factor, advanced senses, adamantium skeleton. And yet, you pick two of those out to be weaknesses in the character. As if the suspense should be based on how other people would be able to overcome them... or everyone should lay out every single way the character could be defeated.

They're weaknesses because the writers can't be bothered with giving those powers any limits.  Where's the suspense in threatening a character that can regenerate from even the tiniest molecule?  Maybe they could have done something with it on a film that had more ambitions than showing how many poses they can get Jackman to strike in a two hour movie?

No. That wasn't what the story was about. This story is about how Wolverine came to be. There were plenty of problems to pick out in that movie in the plot/script alone. Stryker just letting Wolverine walk out of Nigeria. Wolverine just knowing where Wraith is, even though he hasn't talked to anyone in years. Sabretooth looking like a drunken monkey when he runs. Deadpool's lines being lame. Hardly anyone's focusing on stuff like that, though. No... They're talking about "metal skeleton" and "healing factor."

Weak.

The movie was all right, but it could have been better. MUCH better. The writing was the weak link, but people aren't really talking about the writing.

IAWL on all of the above.  But, all due respect, your criticisms seem inconsistent.  Those are MAJOR problems with the film and you still call it alright?  The writing was bad.  The fx looked cheap.  The acting was subpar.  Etc, etc.

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2009, 04:29:46 pm »
Voodoochild,

How is Superman's whitebread upbringing a flaw? It has been portrayed as a source of strength in just about every incarnation of Superman I've ever read or watched on TV. Now, I can see how his sense of decency, fairness, or honor might be exploited, but those values are not just whitebread middle American.

Offline Hypestyle

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2009, 05:15:36 pm »
I'd Give it a B-..

I wanted the film to be 3 hours.. yes, I did..

They could do an entire movie on the Civil War era of Creed and Logan.. I wouldn't mind seeing that.. a sci-fi Civil War tale.. a Confederate colonel who is a mutant..

..also the WWII thread would be worth picking up..

..anyone peg any of the mutant-prisoner cameos, besides "emma"?
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Offline voodoochild

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2009, 05:26:01 pm »
Voodoochild,

How is Superman's whitebread upbringing a flaw? It has been portrayed as a source of strength in just about every incarnation of Superman I've ever read or watched on TV. Now, I can see how his sense of decency, fairness, or honor might be exploited, but those values are not just whitebread middle American.

It gives weaker foes an edge against him.  They use his middle American whitebread naivete as a weapon (when no kryptonite is around ;D).

Offline FLEX HECTIC

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2009, 05:59:46 pm »
HEY... how about Wolverine losing his memory at the point of lacing his entire skeleton with Adamantium and then sending other mutants on a GO-FETCH mission setting up epic fight scenes for a Logan on the run saga? It worked for Jason Bourne two and a half movies until he brought it back to there doorstep!

DENIAL!

That is why some here are defending this movie when a disturbance in the force clearly tells you that some elements of this movie have a Jar Jar Binks feel to it.

There are just too many comic book movies with the opportunity to pass the billion dollar revenue mark and yet fall short because they miss something as simple as having a better script.

Approximately 85 million dollars were spent by fans who love Wolverine and just deserved so much better than what was delivered in this film.

It is like watching Aliens vs Predator and recognizing the difference it would have made if they were on another planet in a full scale battle/hunt as opposed to Antarctica or a suburb of Denver.

(A suburb of Denver? Popular franchises deserve better)

Although I live out here in Hollywood and meet a few peeps in the industry here and there it still amazes me how at times something can be so brilliant and yet have such huge letdowns.

For Ironman they had a writer/artist/creator think tank where many in the comic book industry had a round table type of discussion to make this movie better since it was Marvel's first movie under their movie making studio. Ironman who is less popular than Wolverine in the comic book is a classic!

I feel for the production value of The Black Panther movie if careful thought is not put into the final decisions on what is put on the screen.

There has to be more than one person in that closed door meeting who objects to crappy story telling. These people who strongly object should be allowed to go into a Wolverine berzerker rage and say "Hell no... we won't go" and then throw chairs out the window for dramatic effect.

If it is WACK... then edit the thing! And if that is still WACK... EDIT... WRITE... EDIT... WRITE... EDIT... until you get it right!


Message to FOX STUDIOS: Please return the licensing rights of all Marvel comic book based properties to its' rightful owner so that Wolverine can return triumphantly in a Hulk crossover since they both just happen to be in Canada (hint). Please sign over all rights to the character Storm so that she may appear in The Black Panther movie with more spoken lines. The Fantastic Four need to be sent back home where they belong... Galactus a cloud of solar dust?


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Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Wolverine movie
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2009, 06:25:20 pm »
<<IAWL on all of the above.  But, all due respect, your criticisms seem inconsistent.  Those are MAJOR problems with the film and you still call it alright?  The writing was bad.  The fx looked cheap.  The acting was subpar.  Etc, etc.>>

Why?  Bc despite problems, we can still enoy the show, and I did.  True, not as good as Iron Man or Hulk, but I think I enjoyed it more than Dark Knight or Spiderman 3.  And if I enjoy the show, that's more important than the flaws.