Author Topic: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???  (Read 3956 times)

Offline The Dark Wright

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Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« on: May 14, 2009, 12:03:25 pm »
According to Ed Lover and Joe Budden...what the hell?
The comment is made around 9:50 but start at around 9:00 minutes in if you don't have time for the whole thing.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 12:08:57 pm by Mr.Wright »

Offline Mastrmynd

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Re: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 01:22:40 pm »
wow.
that's crazy talk!


Listen to my entertaining radio show, "The Takeover: Top 20 Countdown" at www.top20takeover.VVCRadio.com.

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Offline FLEX HECTIC

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Re: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 03:20:32 pm »
And JFK is not the greatest president of all time all he did was look good, tap Marilyn Monroe and get shot!


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Offline CKW

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Re: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2009, 05:51:45 am »
Apparently these people have never heard Pac's "Holla If you hear me" or even his first album.

Offline FLEX HECTIC

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Re: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2009, 08:07:00 am »
I think what people seem to forget is Tupac's Digital Underground stuff before he went to the "THUGLIFE" theme and the fact that he was from the EAST COAST and yet claimed WEST COAST when Suge Knight signed him right out of prison to Death Row.

Tupac did an awful lot of yelling and talking over his tracks and less spitting bars.

So which portion of his varied career are you saying was his best?

Was it the production or the actual rhyme skills?

Is it because he died so young in his prime so you keep him only at his freshest point in life ignoring the possibility that if he lived he might very well just be another rapper among rappers as he competed with the now living?

Was it due to his ability to shock people with his audacity to stir up beefs so quickly?

History has a way of weeding out the truth when historians research something long after a person and his fans fade away.





Offline BlackRodimus

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Re: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2009, 08:44:29 am »
I think what people seem to forget is Tupac's Digital Underground stuff before he went to the "THUGLIFE" theme and the fact that he was from the EAST COAST and yet claimed WEST COAST when Suge Knight signed him right out of prison to Death Row.

While this may be true...

Quote
Tupac did an awful lot of yelling and talking over his tracks and less spitting bars.

...this is not. There are too many examples to the contrary. "Me Against the World" in and of itself is a shining example.

Quote
So which portion of his varied career are you saying was his best?

Guess we could ask you something similar in regards to if you're looking at his EARLIEST point and disregarding all his other work up to his death. Or even the works released AFTER his death. He rhymed about beef a lot, but he also rhymed about if his ticket was about to be punched, regrets, other things. But he RHYMED. If you don't think he rhymed GOOD that's another story and something no one would have a problem with. Opinions vary, after all.

Quote
Was it the production or the actual rhyme skills?

Rhyme skills. Not sure he actually produced any of his stuff. He used good producers, though, for the most part.

Quote
Is it because he died so young in his prime so you keep him only at his freshest point in life ignoring the possibility that if he lived he might very well just be another rapper among rappers as he competed with the now living?

He's one of the most referenced rappers in other rapper's lyrics (along with Biggie) that it seems kinda odd to assume he would be "just another rapper" if he had lived. He was gaining momentum, even with his myriad beefs and troubles.

Quote
Was it due to his ability to shock people with his audacity to stir up beefs so quickly?

It's a part of it, but would be nothing without the actual lyrical skill set.

Quote
History has a way of weeding out the truth when historians research something long after a person and his fans fade away.

Also has a way of showing any naysayers they're...naysayers.  ;D
"don't fight the power, be the power" - Reginald Hudlin

Offline Hypestyle

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Re: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2009, 10:40:15 am »
....I think there should be a Tupac Rocks compilation, older/unreleased cuts remixed by rock bands/producers..

My favorite album of his is still the 2nd, Strictly 4 My...
(I still remember the TV commercials for a regional record chain that spoke the full album name uncensored)

..it amuses me that a lot of (younger) heads don't even know that 2pac was not a Death Row artist at the beginning of his career.. it could be argued that tupac's raps became more thematically narrow on the All Eyez on Me LP..  I would have liked to see him record with krs-one, public enemy.. he still had that political spirit in him, stunted as it was with Suge Knight's myopic gangsterism-as-black-empowerment influence..
Be Kind to Someone Today.

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2009, 12:23:43 pm »
You can only judge what somebody has done not what they might do.

That's speculating.

We don't know what Tupac would have done had he lived.

We can say however that songs like for example I Ain't Mad At Cha , To Live and Die In L.A.  and Keep Ya Head Up are critically acclaimed works. 

Offline FLEX HECTIC

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Re: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2009, 01:48:39 pm »
Any rapper you name as greatest has at least 10 or more legitimate hits so Tupac is not the only one selling records.

How about Big Pun who also died in his prime?

The problem with the whole GANGSTA ERA is it glorifies someone for dying like a soldier even if their wilding out lifestyle contributed to the deaths of themselves as well as others. That period in Hip Hop was the worst time as East Coast artists could not perform out West and vice versa until they gathered for some meeting at Farrakhan's house.

POINT BLANK...

I like to take points away for all that over the top street balling and thugging out because as a super hero who despises the mafioso tales of villainy it has been a major setback in the black community. Frankly some of that life after death and demonic references is creepy and over rated.

Will Smith could be the greatest rapper of all time but he just doesn't cuss enough nor beat up on one person with his whole entourage after a Tyson fight, spit at the camera and then belittle a man's wife just to sell records and win a rap beef! Most of your favorite rappers tend to be "BADBOYS" why is that?

Tupac should have stayed the course as a black militant and his poetry would not be degraded by his acts of foul behavior. I think it is easier to make a rhyme about criminal activity and disrespecting women than it is to actually write something out and construct an intelligent verse. That is why so many rap artists today can go in a studio, smoke some weed and drop bars instantly because real thoughts take more planning and brain activity.

I have Tupac's greatest hits and listen to them in my ipod but his legacy comes with more tragedy and pain than actual work. Signing with Death Row was the worst career move he ever did so he should have stuck with the political and followed up on his movie career. If he had lived and left Death Row Records like Dre and Snoop maybe his career choices would have been better... but he didn't!

Suge Knight today is the example of what Tupac would be today if he survived his "SECOND SHOOTING" and continued that path.


The Black Super Hero versus The American Gangster!


(choose wisely)


Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2009, 02:47:25 pm »
Talent is Talent.

I'm old enough to remember Kurtis Blow geting booed off the stage at Harlem World(tho I wasn't there presonally).

I've seen the "Throw Yer Hands In The Air" era as well as the "Consious Rap" "Gangsta" and "Baller" periods.

If somebody said either Common or Teleb Kwali wasn't one of the greatest lyricists of all time-we'd be screaming heresy about that here too.

Mastrmynd will rep Andre 3K every chance he gets here-I'm the same way with Lupe.

We aren't exactly proponents of Thuggery here. ;D

If you want to talk about the ultimate toxic-ness(is that a word)? of Tupac's persona-
we can do that and to be honest I have probably in that regard have even less use for him than you do.

But I still have to give him his props as a Lyricist.

   

Offline Mastrmynd

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Re: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2009, 03:01:45 pm »
everything that vic said is right on point...
...especially the Andre 3K comment.

Best.Lyricist.Today.
 ;D

But even though 'Pac isn't my #1, he is definitely in the Top 10 easily...and I'm including all of his albums...even his Mackavelli stuff.
I feel (and this is just conjecture) that 'Pac was on his way to leaving Death Row...but someone else got to him first and blamed B.I.G.

Tupac never got the chance to atone for his hip hop sins...


Listen to my entertaining radio show, "The Takeover: Top 20 Countdown" at www.top20takeover.VVCRadio.com.

Right on to the real and death to the fakers!  Peace out!

Offline FLEX HECTIC

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Re: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2009, 06:05:56 pm »
You are judged on your career by all the choices you make which includes the company you keep that influences you. Was Tupac in the studio telling Suge "I wanna do conscious rap" or instigating beefs? Was he doing himself or acting out someone else's THUG fantasy? Was he planning to leave Death Row before or after beating that one dude down with all of his homeez (and Suge) the same night he got shot... again?

MC Hammer was with them that night but chose another route and car to be in did you include him in your top ten considering his top ten hits and album sales and high adrenaline concerts or were the genie pants too much to bare for you?

Back to the original topic why are there those who over time do not feel Tupac was in the top ten?

As his legacy fades from memory there are those who start to think objectively. Too many times there is the "marginal rapper" tag placed upon his name. Great song maker at times but his bar spitting was by many peoples standards considered suspect. Because he died so tragic there are those too afraid to say something about a dead man so they pay more homage to him than to criticize him.

Are we talking GREATEST here or most inspirational?


HOW LONG WILL THEY MOURN ME?


(Interesting song there if you consider the topic)


Offline Mastrmynd

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Re: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2009, 07:33:33 pm »
sales has nothing to do with lyrics.
Soulja Boi has sold a bajillion ringtones, but that doesn't mean he's a brilliant lyricist.

Lil' Wayne?  I'm considering puttin' him in my top10? considering? why?  Because I don't know if all of his stuff is ghostwritten.
even if it is...his flow is hella sick... diction...subject/verb agreement...his metas are amazing...weezy f. baby...

but back to the comment above... hammer is NO lyricist.
Tupac is.  from Happy, digital underground to Dear Mama to even some Death Row/Mackavelli ish... Mr. Shakur had a way with words.


Listen to my entertaining radio show, "The Takeover: Top 20 Countdown" at www.top20takeover.VVCRadio.com.

Right on to the real and death to the fakers!  Peace out!

Offline FLEX HECTIC

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Re: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2009, 08:44:17 pm »
So did MC Hammer have a way with words because he said what he wanted to say.

Tupac said what Suge had him say for a record label named after a place for inmates sentenced to death.

Was it Tupac talking or some outer demonic spirit and some weed?

If Tupac could not rhyme as fast as Big Daddy Kane, Rakim, Kool G Rap or Twista then how can you compare Hammer and his flow since you slowed down the standards?

Offline Battle

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Re: Tupac not one of the greatest lyricists of all time???
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2009, 09:07:05 am »
Good set of questions, FLEX!  :)