Author Topic: The Black Super Hero versus The American Gangster!  (Read 11279 times)

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: The Black Super Hero versus The American Gangster!
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2009, 07:10:45 pm »
Recently read an article that basically said that one reason we can't get A-list black hero/villain is because the next writer will ruin it.  Unless a character is mega-popular, every writer can (and many do) reinterp the character to their vision ruining what made them great previously.

Only possible way to get around this is when secessive writers share same vision or one writer stays on them until they become too popular to be played with.

Offline FLEX HECTIC

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Re: The Black Super Hero versus The American Gangster!
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2009, 11:39:56 pm »
I posted on blacksuperhero.com about us having a major black comic book convention in Los Angeles to offset the lack of celebrity star power at the venues in Philly, Atlanta, Detroit and other places of note.

The last minute cancelation of Kevin Grevioux at ECBAC was a big disappointment for those who attended and many in the black comic industry do not have the support group that is shown at the major conventions by their white peers.

This leads us to to speak almost hopelessly about our place in this genre as if at any moment someone (Marvel or DC) will take from us what we do not really have already.

I suggested L.A. because even if half the black stars cancelled we would at least increase our chances that someone of fame would drop by as they did when Reggie X stormtrooped The Golden Apple a minute ago.

When The Spielbergs, The Stan Lee's and The Frank Miller's speak of their projects there is a confidence level that comes through them and enhances their lifes work. There is a certainty that something spectacular is bound to happen when they create and it usually happens that way by design.

For some reason our heroic voices do not sound off in the same or greater manner. We are more of a sporadic and divided lot that needs better direction and mentoring in our ideas.

We also will need a financial interest that helps us with our visions and dreams into fruition.


This is the one area where a fearless uncompromising nothing to lose American Gangster type would benefit us.

Imagine Lex Luthor buying out and owning the Superman S logo and selling it to the highest bidder and then giving Supes some of the profits just to watch him tear up the Lexcorp checks in disgust!



Like I told you... The Black Super Hero and The American Gangster are really the same people but at war with each other which ends up promoting both at the same time!


At some point soon someone will have to unite the various black talent and be the glue that holds this battered cabal together.

We do not need Marvel or DC's permission to do so. And even if we still wanted to work for them your position would have better leverage if you had millions of black fanbros to back your every move instead of fighting with every other editor about canon and continuity.


THAT'S GANGSTA!




Offline bluezulu

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Re: The Black Super Hero versus The American Gangster!
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2009, 06:04:59 am »
Just because the values of a gangsta may be the opposite of mine, I have never viewed a gangsta let alone any black man as my antithesis. I think the black hero rouge gallery for the most part has been on point. There just has not been a big enough push on minority heroes to make there counterparts obtain a higher level of infamy.

Offline FLEX HECTIC

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Re: The Black Super Hero versus The American Gangster!
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2009, 09:29:01 am »
The Dark Knight: "I am whatever Gotham needs me to be!"


This was said just before Batman took the blame for Harvey Dent's downfall and told Commissioner Gordon to hunt him so that Gotham City could be saved.

Let's flip that two faced coin and see it from a black version.


Black Super Hero: "I am whatever the black community needs me to be!"


Which is what?

What exactly does the black community need?

In a parallel world if you are a young black male your immediate peers are whom?

I know very few black people if at all that do not have a friend, relative or acquaintance that has not been to prison, been shot or associated with the criminal element in some way. Hip Hop musical tastes count too even if the listener never duplicates the influential violent acts not so subliminally depicted in the songs.

A huge percentage of our target audience or demographics we need to sell our black super heroes to is in that GANGSTA lifestyle.

The reason that there is not a white version of Martin Luther King is because white people for years already had presidents, governors, senators, executives etc. etc.

The diabolical white villains reflected the scientific and or corporate enemies of their time mixed in with politics. The villains actions or deeds sold the story itself.

The moment you start generating revenue from black super heroes and flossing those big toys around town the gangsters will take notice and attempt to rob, extort or take you out anyway. Notice the number of wealthy black athletes carrying guns because they are targeted for robbery at gunpoint.

When the Suge Knights (Kingpin) of the world hang you out the window and demand you sign over the licensing and merchandise rights to your A-list black super hero you will remember this post. In fact they will smell the money just as soon as one of our black comic book conventions begins to make money on a large scale.That is who they are and freely chosen lifestyle so I welcome them to my comic booth with my Rorschach hat and Punisher t-shirt on. LOL!

As black men we know that last paragraph was not a joke.

We will face our enemies... or they will face us as fate would have it!


We are what the black community needs us to be!


The Black Super Hero versus The American Gangster!




(I can't believe this thread has not been padlocked yet. Thanx Reggie!)

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

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Re: The Black Super Hero versus The American Gangster!
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2009, 10:54:48 am »
Black Super Hero: "I am whatever the black community needs me to be!"


Which is what?

What exactly does the black community need?


This question undermines a significant part of your premise.

The Black community is not a monolith; therefore I would expect the responses to run the gamut of possibilities.

T'Challa- His Black community needs him to be the stalwart defender, monarch and bearer of the Panther mantle.

Cage- his Black community needs him to maintain the redemptive role of a former criminal and hero for hire; to the selfless hero and protector that he is today.

Black Lightning- His Black community needs him to be the great example of homegrown heroism and leadership that he has always been.

There is no such thing as the Black community in the sense that you express it here.

What does exist are communities with Black people in them and each have their own unique nature and requirements.

Offline FLEX HECTIC

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Re: The Black Super Hero versus The American Gangster!
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2009, 09:47:36 pm »
Jefferson sergeant I like your last sentence so much I am going to meditate on that!





Okay I'm done!

I guess the key question is more of and If or a WHEN evil knocks on your door as opposed to just one being a role model or a pillar of symbolism.

The versus part of my thread is the scenario where conflict comes in or acts of violence are committed.

If a or any black community had it all together then the need for any super hero diminishes.

If Spiderman were more about Peter Parker just getting an education and being a happy smiling upstanding citizen then the proportionate strength of a spider is just a mere circus act at best.

There are buppie neighborhoods that have little or no crime but so are there upper class white neighborhoods who have no need for Superman.

We are talking black super heroes as a direct need and response to criminal behavior as it pertains to comic books and thus real life.

Every now and then a break in or a car jacking or a sexual assault takes place in a wealthy community and reactions vary.

Each super hero has their own agenda one way or another so who is taking up the mantle against an obvious fake and real gangster agenda?

Gangsters have a way of crossing lines and inserting themselves wherever they see fit and profitable.

One of our clients was pistol whipped in his own home while his family was tied up in Beverly Hills. The fact that he was white and the perpetrator was black can be something blown way out of proprtion considering the class of neighborhood he lives in.

My sound man in the apartment above me was murdered by black youth over a drug deal gone bad.

The reason I mention this is since lines have been crossed in such severe ways it sets up racial profiling for those of us who do not break the law. Black on black crime is bad enough but add in the racial element and boudaries can be breached where no community is safe simply because a growing cancer was not checked that puts us all at risk. White people have their own methods for dealing with brothas that cross that line and history shows that it aint often pretty. It would be safer if we settled this in house with our own heroes and or values.

When someone like Reggie is pulled over by cops for driving something fancy because he "Might" be a drug dealer, a gangster or a pimp even though we all know better then that is a cause for alarm all around.

That gangster image is killing us in all manner of image and likeness.

Oprah was referenced as "NIGGA" in South Africa by a black youth who did not know better.

That is an ocean away for a negative greeting to reach so no black community is immune to the cancer of gangsterism!




I like the thought patterns that have come of this dialogue and would hope that some of the white members of this board would weigh in and give honest and open perspectives on how you see things from comic books to real life.

Michael that is your cue so get off that lurk mode and get up in here. Don't be shy!





Offline FLEX HECTIC

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Re: The Black Super Hero versus The American Gangster!
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2009, 11:09:44 am »
Kanye West is...


THE BLACK PANTHER!


Not.


If you hang with out with gangsters long enough their vibe eventually rubs off on you and you do something that is totally out there and you pay a price for it later on.

Now I could really get deep and point out Serena is dating Common who started out as a conscious rapper only to portray "bad guys" in the movies but that would be pushing it a bit too far.

After Kanye and Jay Z dissed Chris Brown for his behavior it seems that Chris was only following the examples set by his much older peers when it comes to respecting women.

If Kanye stepped away from that type of atmosphere and went back to his "Jesus Walks" mode I bet he would get all those "Gangsta" demons away from around him and be more revolutionary as he was when he made the infamous "George Bush does not like black people" comment and set himself apart as a true thinker.

In time healing and forgiveness will prevail but Hip Hop will have to purge itself of The Gangster image because it pulls too many peeps toward sociopathic behavior whereby they snap and lose it at a moments notice and then cannot figure out why they behave as they do.

This sense of entitlement and "It's all about me" could have been a bigger disaster considering the deep south country music associations and the racial climate with a black president getting attacked on a regular by white right wingers.

God forbid if Taylor Swift had tried to grab the mic back from his hands and he in his hallucinogenic "Gangster" mode wrestled with that smaller "White Girl" and it evolved into something else much worse.

Suppose it was one of them heavy metal rock and roll groups with their own big bodyguard entourage. Would he have grabbed the mic from them too or was it just a size matter?

Fortunately Beyonce was wise enough to hold out an olive branch but even she needs to sit down with her husband and talk out these Gangster issues and the direction of Hip Hop and RnB's future.

I feel that the Gangsta/Diva selfish image is going to be harmful to us all in the long run. Right now there are a whole lot of Hip Hoppers with deep pockets but no discipline. This can be a severe problem where diplomacy is concerned and much needed in the President Obama loves Hip Hop era.

What's the contingency plan for when a gangsta rapper makes aggressive advances at The Second Coming of Mother Teresa? Or spits nasty rhymes at a foreign dignitary that stepped on his new high top kicks? I could go on but you get the point as more of them gain international fame yet their behavioral patterns are unpredictable, potentially embarrassing and foreign law dangerous.

This piss all over your own audience because we are rich and you are not attitude is getting to be very expendable. We have to decide if we wish to continue to make certain black entertainers wealthy as opposed to comic book creators who can give us more.

In the meantime I will sit and wait for the next great Hip Hop blunder to comment further!




P.S. Could some diabolical computer hacker please find a way to switch the decimal points in Jay Z's bank account with Dwayne McDuffie's so that this Milestone Media thang can blow up past DC and Marvel and give us a 24 black super hero channel because I have seriously had enough of this studio gangster schtick!







Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: The Black Super Hero versus The American Gangster!
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2009, 10:19:22 am »
You should not assume the motives behind people.  If you actually met the people you admire/dislike you might be very surprised who you actually click with. 

Sometimes the guys with the worst images are the most professional and friendly.  Sometimes the people who seem to share your value system are quite hypocritical. 

I hope Kanye takes this moment to actually do some self-exploration.  I don't know him, but he is hella talented.

Offline FLEX HECTIC

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Re: The Black Super Hero versus The American Gangster!
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2009, 01:46:41 pm »
Good point!


I had to learn that the hard way when I moved to Los Angeles and would run into so and so and be disappointed that their stage persona was nothing like how they really are in real life but then again they are only human so my starstruckness lasted about 2 seconds.

I would guess that the black super hero concept would be more of a referee for the ideals system as a checkmate to help prevent chaotic behavior from happening in the first place but their is still no guarantee that everybody would behave accordingly.

The black super hero ideology should be something one can fall back on just before they lose all their manners as Kanye did when he took that action. Something like that or what Chris Brown did can derail careers and leave scars both physical and emotionally for others as well as themselves.

The Black Panther as a fictional character or a real life concept could very well be an @$$hole behind the scenes but should always be depicted as being James Bond proper and dignified even in the heat of the most deadliest battle. Grabbing the microphone while Sue Storm was speaking to promote Storm over her would be rude on his part. Reed, Ben and Johnny would have a word with him on that and he might get escorted from the Baxter Building promptly.

I would rather have black men "FAKE" like they are super heroes than to "REALLY" be gangsters because the damage left behind burns for years to come!


Also as super heroes when we get to that A-list status as a whole genre and we are respected much better than we are now we should be the ones to attack this behavior at all costs and then be the ones with the most forgiveness when healing is needed.

I wouldn't throw Kanye under the bus but the voices that do attack him should come from a platform that cares about the image of black men. My daddy spanked me when it was necessary and my son gets that treatment too when he behaves less than super hero status. Kanye will survive the spanking that is ongoing as will others after him.

Chastisement + Healing = Better Person (Unless they are just a rebel in contempt)

We all are sinners in one way or another but their should be checks and balances. A super hero 10 commandments with some sort of guidelines would help.


Could you imagine if Biggie and Tupac were raised on comic book values as opposed to the streets?


Think that over as you meditate about that black comic book convention you're getting ready to promote! LMAO! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



Seriously... I would rather see you or Mac Dee doing it big with the black super hero movement even if you dudes were @$$holes and obnoxious behind the scenes!!!!!


(The urge to TROLL overtakes me)

Flex: "Reggie X wassup man!"

Reggie X: "Fleeeeeeex what's poppin TROLL!"

Flex: "Just paTROLLing the forum and whatnot looking for threads to spam you know how I do."

Reggie X: "Yeah I feel ya."

Flex: "Aw this must be Mrs. Hudlin. Your wife is so beautiful. You are truly blessed."

Reggie X: "Uh Flex... this is not my wife... This is..."

Smoking Hot Woman: "Hi I'm Laquaishlaneisha."

Flex: "Laqua... OK I get it. Nice to meet you La La."

Reggie X: "Soooo Ah... Flex I'll catch ya later."

Flex: "In fact we'll pretend like this meeting never took place."

Reggie X: "Great idea. Peace!"

(As Reggie X and that "FINE" lady who is not his wife walk away Flex bursts into tears)

Flex: "My idol Reggie X has betrayed the super hero code! Our ideals are ruined!"

(Regaining his senses)

Flex: "But then again... Reggie X has game like dat!"