Author Topic: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?  (Read 32127 times)

Offline bluezulu

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2006, 11:04:46 am »
We'll have to agree to disagree here, Blue. Side kicks serve an important function of allowing the reader someone to relate to when they can't do so with the main character. Batman's angst is hard to get through, so they have Robin. Tarzan barely has thought processes, so he has Jane and some adopted kid who's name I forget, and so on and so forth. Priest might have taken race into account when he decided to use Ross (who actually appeared in Ka-zar first) instead of making someone new, but he did so to challenge perceptions of Panther by fanboys (who are majority white). What's so bad about that?
----------------------------------
absolutly nothing. :) everything is not meant to be seen as good or bad. priest is a genius and his use of ross was very creative for a lot of reasons, including the ones you listed above. so when you see reg's no holds barred no excuse making version of tchalla as the "baddest"black man, there are reasons for it considering the last series. the last series with it's subtlies (sp) and metaphors and plot twist was criticaly aclaimed but the fanboys did not but it. ok they are not buying it in masses now but imo this book is not pandering or catering to them. (note the fact that you don't like it  ;) ) im sorry this run was not written for you in mind. as a fan of the character you can look forward to him in marvel adventures and avengers united, however in this series you are not getting your old pantehr.

Offline JRCarter

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2007, 06:42:27 pm »
white wash jones was a sambo type charecer, big lips and in black face,  if marvel reintroduces that charecter, they will get to see the nigger in me >:(

They could always do like DC did with Chop-Chop from Blackhawk and say that the sambo-type depiction was part of a comic-book-within-a-comic-book.

Offline The Evasive 1

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2007, 07:27:56 pm »
Quote
but some have the opinion that we have had a pseudo reverse white whash jones in the form of ross. it was pure genius on his part but tell me the diffence in the need for white wash jones and ross. if you are scared say you are scared but the truth remains that ross served a a bizaroo world like black/white face character so that white readers could have someone they relate to in the pages of black panther. amazing work by priest because to this day his biggest fans of the book put the character of ross in the top 3 reasons why they loved the book.

And just how exactly did you come to this conclusion?

Ross wasn't some cleverly hidden stereotype. He represented the disbelieving the disbelieving reader who didn't take Panther seriously. Priest knew alot of people would have a hard time taking Panther seriously because for the longest time, he was a second stringer who always needed the help of whatever character he was guest starring with, from Iron Man to DD. Rather than bury his head in the sand, Priest met that challenge head on. It's was Hudlin by way of recon who 'white washed' T'Challa's history, not Priest.

Ross was simply a man out of his element, and Priest used that for comedy. What's more, it allowed T'Challa to be a mysterious bad ass because we the reader didn't see inside his head, but Ross'. When Ross was surprised, generally so were we. Opinion varies yes, but I feel it allowed for better story telling, not just straight up fights.

Finally, Priest actually was very respectful of Ross' character when Ross was in his state department element. When the Senate tried to remove Panther from America, Ross made an impassioned plea, defending Panther's character and in the same issue verbally bitch slapping Captain America. In the same arc he stood on equal footing with Magneto, Namor, Dr. Doom (hologram anyways) and Warlord Kro, discussing the sinking of an American ship. In earlier issues he broke down the international business implications of Panther nationalizing all business in Wakanda with ease. So...where is the disrespect, exactly?

I was respectfully reading you opinion on this matter and was completely content until I saw the negative plug at Hudlin....again.

Damn, can you get into a conversation at least once without having to throw a negative comment at Hudlin? You have let everybody who will listen, here and at other Internet boards, know what you think about the history of Hudlin's BP and Hudlin's writing. I respect your opinion but let's stick to the debate and keep that particular point out, please.

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2007, 07:57:40 pm »
If I hear ANOTHER Everett K. Ross lament as a smoke screen to diss RH BP,I swear...


SUPREME ILLUMINATION:

Look,I make no bones about the fact that I LOVED PRIEST'S RUN and on top of that I LOVED PRIEST'S ROSS.No doubt.I loved PRIEST'S interpretation of BP as well.I have gone into depth and detail about it any number of times prior to this,so I won't do so again.

But I love RH BP as well,and nobody but RH could've put BP where he currently IS. The change in the status of the character due to RH penning him,and the unrelenting badassity of His Royal Pantherness in every regard is nothing new. Let me recall to your mind once again,all RH BP haters...MOST OF YOU HATED PRIEST BP TOO,THAT'S WHY IT GOT CANCELLED.Much of the SAME OUTRAGE that most of you are heaping upon RH? YOU HEAPED IT ON PRIEST,TOO.On his own website,PRIEST speaks about this very negative reaction by the boards to BP being treated like the King and genius and tech innovator and warrior that he was originally meant to be and which he demonstrated at his inception and during several arcs of THE AVENGERS in the...was it  the 80s?...and with D-MAC (that's DWAYNE MCDUFFIE for all you foolish mortals out there).All prior to PRIEST getting his hands on him.

The only thing that RH did with BP was make him EVEN DOPER STILL.If you LIKE THE CHARACTER,YOU SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS.Any argument to the contrary is purely moronic.You don't like RH's writing style? Alright.YOU SHOULD STILL BE HAPPY THAT BP IS NOW A MAJOR PLAYER IN THE MU,IN CIVIL WAR,AND WILL BE IN WORLDWIDE HULK.Even with so brilliant a scribe as D-MAC and PRIEST are,they didn't come CLOSE to this kind of exposure and respect FROM ALL QUARTERS OF THE MU that RH HAS GOTTEN FOR BP.I just read the WHOLE of RH BP and almost all of PRIEST BP...as I own almost the entire run of both.Both are MAGNIFICENT writers...and both have RADICALLY DIFFERENT STYLES.My manz PRIEST has a more prose-oriented,more lyrical,more convoluted style.More multilayered.He has sharp wit and humor and ironic twists that he utilizes more frequently than does RH.RH doesn't LACK these elements,he just doesn't use them THE SAME WAY that PRIEST DOES because THEIR STYLES are different.But make no mistake...BOTH ARE QUALITY WRITERS.RH is more straight up hardcore than PRIEST's writing tends to be.RH BP is regal,but he's quick to beatcha down,too.RH BP is MORE ACCESSIBLE than PRIEST BP...therefore the role that ROSS played in PRIEST'S interpretation of BP is null and void here vis-a-vis RH BP.You know what ROSS does much more of now? HE LETS US SEE HOW THE GOVERNMENT WORKS WHEN THE MEDIA ISN'T SNOOPING AROUND AND REPORTING THEIR PRIVATE AND NON-P.C. CONVERSATIONS.Those who don't think that the General was a realistic depiction ought to hear the kind of talk that permeates the armed services bases.I lived in San Diego (a military town) and reside in LONG BEACH ( a military town until recently) and I can assure you that I have heard many an office and NCO use racist labels for their race and other races so frequently that nobody even twitches at it anymore.You remember that phrase..."CURSES LIKE A SAILOR"? Are many of you so naive as to think that such a common adage has no bearing on the reality of life in the armed forces? If so,please utilize your cranium for something more than nodding to the preposterous crapola of other people,and cogitate...reflect...consider...ponder on your own and FOR YOURSELF for a moment.

It is ENTIRELY plausible for BP to defeat CAPTAIN AMERICA.The premier representatives of combat athletes on this planet have FOR DECADES been Black.No doubts were raised as to whom the baddest man on the planet was,and frankly he hasn't been white since before John L. Sullivan.And throw ROCKY MARCIANO outta here before we even START that argument...any Black heavyweight champ who was in his prime from Joe Lewis to Floyd Patterson would utterly destroy ROCKY,and that's why he WOULD NOT FIGHT ANY BLACK CHAMP IN HIS PRIME.Kickboxing? Hoost and Bonjasky...and Hoost in particular would crush anyone in his prime.Including the current 7 footer and champ Semmy Schilt (who is European). Between Hoost and Bonjasky,the K-1 has been dominated for more years by a Black champ than at a comparable time by ANYBODY OTHER PAIR COMBINED.As soon as MMA starts producing million dollar paychecks regularly,bruthas will run that too.You're already seeing the signs.George St.Pierre,Anderson Silva,Vanderlei Silva,Rampage Jackson,and Yves Edwards when his head is on straight.

What I'm saying here is that the premier representatives in single combat have generally been Black since the time we were allowed to genuinely compete.It makes sense that THE PREMIER BLACK MAN would hold a similar edge over his premier Caucasian counterpart.Don't start with cries of racism...because if that's true then it's racist to claim that MICHAEL JORDAN is greater than anybody else...including every White player whom has ever played the game.It would be racist to claim that the premier sprinters in sprinting history are Blacks...and I recall to your mind that Whites ARE represented proportionately in these events,UNLIKE the other events that Whites dominate WHERE BLACKS ARE NOT EQUALLY REPRESENTED BECAUSE WE'RE NOT THAT INTERESTED IN THOSE SPORTS...YET.

Except...when Black people dominate a sport? It's because of our TREMENDOUS NATURAL TALENT.When White people dominate a sport? It's because of their tremendous will,focus,intellect,savvyness and the like...if you believe the sports pundits.Even when playing the same game at the same time and working in tandem.Whom say these things on national TV and don't realize they're being racist.Offensively so.Because Joe Montana was extra savvy and brilliant and focused and possessed uncommon will and savvyness.And Jerry Rice...his favorite receiver and probably the greatest to ever play the game...was merely superbly gifted physically,but less endowed with the finer and more sublte aspects of character that indicates true greatness that withstands the tests of time rather than physcial gifts that fade as time inexorably marches on.Despite the fact that Jerry Rice in particular embodies the absolute falseness of this belief.

And Captain America can lose to anyone from Primus to Crossbones...except...when facing the premier example of the premier athletes and hand to hand combatants on the Earth? He MUST win...he cannot possibly lose.I remember the uproar when PREIST had TCHAKA merely TIE with CAPTAIN AMERICA...and had a whole ambush set to wipe out CAP and all the soldiers with him should CAP have done something out of line.Ohhhhh...do I remember the uproar and pisstivity of most people in my LCS.And when RH BP actually BEAT CAP DOWN and CARRIED HIM OFF? That set off so many people that one of the most rabid CAP fans started a physical altercation with me.No joke.And the ironic thing is...after BP,CAP is my favorite guy.


So shut it up about ROSS.RH is not PRIEST,so deal with it.Don't like it? DON'T BUY IT. But if you're a BLACK PANTHER fan,as opposed to a FAN OF A WRITER...then AT LEAST CREDIT RH for doing WHAT NOBODY ELSE COULD HAVE DONE:

He made BP and A-LIST PLAYER RECOGNIZED THROUGHOUT THE MU.

If you hate on that,you're not a BP fan anyway,and nothing will satisfy you no matter what unless it includes the denigration and/or cancellation of the character.Period.

Endeth illumination.
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2007, 07:59:57 pm »
And hell no they weren't being racist with BP...maybe not as well informed,definitely not authentic in regards to an actual "BLACK VOICE"...but MARVEL was being neither degrading nor racist IMO.
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Offline voodoochild

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2007, 11:54:42 pm »
Ross wasn't a reverse stereotype.  Ross was a device Priest used (unsuccessfully) to pander to white fans.

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2007, 12:25:30 pm »
yeah, Ross was a plot device ... a funny plot device, but a plot device nonetheless.


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Offline The Evasive 1

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2007, 12:36:13 pm »
If I hear ANOTHER Everett K. Ross lament as a smoke screen to diss RH BP,I swear...


SUPREME ILLUMINATION:

Look,I make no bones about the fact that I LOVED PRIEST'S RUN and on top of that I LOVED PRIEST'S ROSS.No doubt.I loved PRIEST'S interpretation of BP as well.I have gone into depth and detail about it any number of times prior to this,so I won't do so again.

But I love RH BP as well,and nobody but RH could've put BP where he currently IS. The change in the status of the character due to RH penning him,and the unrelenting badassity of His Royal Pantherness in every regard is nothing new. Let me recall to your mind once again,all RH BP haters...MOST OF YOU HATED PRIEST BP TOO,THAT'S WHY IT GOT CANCELLED.Much of the SAME OUTRAGE that most of you are heaping upon RH? YOU HEAPED IT ON PRIEST,TOO.On his own website,PRIEST speaks about this very negative reaction by the boards to BP being treated like the King and genius and tech innovator and warrior that he was originally meant to be and which he demonstrated at his inception and during several arcs of THE AVENGERS in the...was it  the 80s?...and with D-MAC (that's DWAYNE MCDUFFIE for all you foolish mortals out there).All prior to PRIEST getting his hands on him.

The only thing that RH did with BP was make him EVEN DOPER STILL.If you LIKE THE CHARACTER,YOU SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS.Any argument to the contrary is purely moronic.You don't like RH's writing style? Alright.YOU SHOULD STILL BE HAPPY THAT BP IS NOW A MAJOR PLAYER IN THE MU,IN CIVIL WAR,AND WILL BE IN WORLDWIDE HULK.Even with so brilliant a scribe as D-MAC and PRIEST are,they didn't come CLOSE to this kind of exposure and respect FROM ALL QUARTERS OF THE MU that RH HAS GOTTEN FOR BP.I just read the WHOLE of RH BP and almost all of PRIEST BP...as I own almost the entire run of both.Both are MAGNIFICENT writers...and both have RADICALLY DIFFERENT STYLES.My manz PRIEST has a more prose-oriented,more lyrical,more convoluted style.More multilayered.He has sharp wit and humor and ironic twists that he utilizes more frequently than does RH.RH doesn't LACK these elements,he just doesn't use them THE SAME WAY that PRIEST DOES because THEIR STYLES are different.But make no mistake...BOTH ARE QUALITY WRITERS.RH is more straight up hardcore than PRIEST's writing tends to be.RH BP is regal,but he's quick to beatcha down,too.RH BP is MORE ACCESSIBLE than PRIEST BP...therefore the role that ROSS played in PRIEST'S interpretation of BP is null and void here vis-a-vis RH BP.You know what ROSS does much more of now? HE LETS US SEE HOW THE GOVERNMENT WORKS WHEN THE MEDIA ISN'T SNOOPING AROUND AND REPORTING THEIR PRIVATE AND NON-P.C. CONVERSATIONS.Those who don't think that the General was a realistic depiction ought to hear the kind of talk that permeates the armed services bases.I lived in San Diego (a military town) and reside in LONG BEACH ( a military town until recently) and I can assure you that I have heard many an office and NCO use racist labels for their race and other races so frequently that nobody even twitches at it anymore.You remember that phrase..."CURSES LIKE A SAILOR"? Are many of you so naive as to think that such a common adage has no bearing on the reality of life in the armed forces? If so,please utilize your cranium for something more than nodding to the preposterous crapola of other people,and cogitate...reflect...consider...ponder on your own and FOR YOURSELF for a moment.

It is ENTIRELY plausible for BP to defeat CAPTAIN AMERICA.The premier representatives of combat athletes on this planet have FOR DECADES been Black.No doubts were raised as to whom the baddest man on the planet was,and frankly he hasn't been white since before John L. Sullivan.And throw ROCKY MARCIANO outta here before we even START that argument...any Black heavyweight champ who was in his prime from Joe Lewis to Floyd Patterson would utterly destroy ROCKY,and that's why he WOULD NOT FIGHT ANY BLACK CHAMP IN HIS PRIME.Kickboxing? Hoost and Bonjasky...and Hoost in particular would crush anyone in his prime.Including the current 7 footer and champ Semmy Schilt (who is European). Between Hoost and Bonjasky,the K-1 has been dominated for more years by a Black champ than at a comparable time by ANYBODY OTHER PAIR COMBINED.As soon as MMA starts producing million dollar paychecks regularly,bruthas will run that too.You're already seeing the signs.George St.Pierre,Anderson Silva,Vanderlei Silva,Rampage Jackson,and Yves Edwards when his head is on straight.

What I'm saying here is that the premier representatives in single combat have generally been Black since the time we were allowed to genuinely compete.It makes sense that THE PREMIER BLACK MAN would hold a similar edge over his premier Caucasian counterpart.Don't start with cries of racism...because if that's true then it's racist to claim that MICHAEL JORDAN is greater than anybody else...including every White player whom has ever played the game.It would be racist to claim that the premier sprinters in sprinting history are Blacks...and I recall to your mind that Whites ARE represented proportionately in these events,UNLIKE the other events that Whites dominate WHERE BLACKS ARE NOT EQUALLY REPRESENTED BECAUSE WE'RE NOT THAT INTERESTED IN THOSE SPORTS...YET.

Except...when Black people dominate a sport? It's because of our TREMENDOUS NATURAL TALENT.When White people dominate a sport? It's because of their tremendous will,focus,intellect,savvyness and the like...if you believe the sports pundits.Even when playing the same game at the same time and working in tandem.Whom say these things on national TV and don't realize they're being racist.Offensively so.Because Joe Montana was extra savvy and brilliant and focused and possessed uncommon will and savvyness.And Jerry Rice...his favorite receiver and probably the greatest to ever play the game...was merely superbly gifted physically,but less endowed with the finer and more sublte aspects of character that indicates true greatness that withstands the tests of time rather than physcial gifts that fade as time inexorably marches on.Despite the fact that Jerry Rice in particular embodies the absolute falseness of this belief.

And Captain America can lose to anyone from Primus to Crossbones...except...when facing the premier example of the premier athletes and hand to hand combatants on the Earth? He MUST win...he cannot possibly lose.I remember the uproar when PREIST had TCHAKA merely TIE with CAPTAIN AMERICA...and had a whole ambush set to wipe out CAP and all the soldiers with him should CAP have done something out of line.Ohhhhh...do I remember the uproar and pisstivity of most people in my LCS.And when RH BP actually BEAT CAP DOWN and CARRIED HIM OFF? That set off so many people that one of the most rabid CAP fans started a physical altercation with me.No joke.And the ironic thing is...after BP,CAP is my favorite guy.


So shut it up about ROSS.RH is not PRIEST,so deal with it.Don't like it? DON'T BUY IT. But if you're a BLACK PANTHER fan,as opposed to a FAN OF A WRITER...then AT LEAST CREDIT RH for doing WHAT NOBODY ELSE COULD HAVE DONE:

He made BP and A-LIST PLAYER RECOGNIZED THROUGHOUT THE MU.

If you hate on that,you're not a BP fan anyway,and nothing will satisfy you no matter what unless it includes the denigration and/or cancellation of the character.Period.

Endeth illumination.

And with that the, haters and trolls feel a rolling in their guts and convulse in fits of pain as they realize they are hit with a supreme illness that they still cannot fathom  yet can't logically  deny.

Each one, teach one brother. Lay those trolls out.

Offline The Evasive 1

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2007, 01:08:11 pm »
yeah, Ross was a plot device ... a funny plot device, but a plot device nonetheless.

Speaking of which, did any of you read "Steel" after Priest took it over (before it too got canceled)? The writers before hand were not that great and Priest DID up the level of quality somewhat. However, I soon realized he was trying to put that "Ross" element in his stories as he made up this white kid who apparently sweeps Steel's niece, Natasha, off her feet within a period of two issues. This kid, to me, had the same qualities as Ross. In fact, it pretty much WAS Ross as a sixteen year old. It seemed like Priest was once again throwing in a white character who went around telling "black" themed jokes, which is what Ross did on occasion and attempting to provide comic relief for the story. What is also interesting is how when Priest's takes over the character of Steel he makes him weaker than he was ever written by other writers (including white writers) and the one romantic interest starts playing Steel for the real antagonist of the story. Priest also makes  the resident black girl wave off all potential suitors in the 'hood who approach her except a scraggly dress white kid, with holes in his jeans and long hair, who shows up on her door step and offers to buy ice cream which she immediately jumps on after dissin' everyone else (including brothas if I remember right). This romantic hook up happens in the FIRST ISSUE. Talk about a rushed romance. Forget about the uproar T'Challa and Storm's union caused.

Why does Priest come in and cut these black heroes and their stories down to the knees? I understand the idea of drama and making more challenges for the hero but why take a character and make him weaker still than he already is in the comic book universe? Again, this reminds me of reading Priests vision of what he was going to do to BP if the series hadn't gotten canceled while he was writing it. He was going to make T'Challa into a world class villain like Doom, allow Storm to marry T'Challa but divorce him and hook Ross up with Monica. I see a pattern here. Priest really wants to get the "larger demographic" to relate to his stories, which I understand. But does he have to lead these characters and their supporting cast down these dark roads when there are barely any black heroes of worth in comics as it is? All in the name of Drama? Pu-leez!! It's bad enough he didn't want to write BP when he was first given the assignment in the first place.

With all this said, I AM a fan of his run of BP though if he had been allowed to write in the changes he wanted I would have eventually dropped the book eventually. Thank God, Reggie took over. I don't care what the haters say. T'Challa would eventually have sucked.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 12:43:29 am by Evasive1 »

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2007, 07:55:11 am »
yeah, Ross was a plot device ... a funny plot device, but a plot device nonetheless.

Speaking of which, did any of you read "Steel" after Priest took it over (before it too got canceled)? The writers before hand were not that great and Priest DID up the level of quality somewhat. However, I soon realized he was trying to put that "Ross" element in his stories as he made up this white kid who apparently sweeps Steel's niece, Natasha, off her feet within a period of two issues. This kid, to me, had the same qualities as Ross. In fact, it pretty much WAS Ross as a sixteen year old. It seemed like Priest was once again throwing in a white character who went around telling "black" themed jokes, which is what Ross did on occasion and attempting to provide comic relief for the story. What is also interesting is how when Priest's takes over the character of Steel he makes him weaker than he was ever written by other writers (including white writers) and the one romantic interest starts playing Steel for the real antagonist of the story. Priest also makes  the resident black girl wave off all potential suitors in the 'hood who approach her except a scraggly dress white kid, with holes in his jeans and long hair, who shows up on her door step and offers to buy ice cream which she immediately jumps on after dissin' everyone else (including brothas if I remember right). This romantic hook up happens in the FIRST ISSUE. Talk about a rushed romance. Forget about the uproar T'Challa and Storm's union caused.

Why does Priest come in and cut these black heroes and their stories down to the knees? I understand the idea of drama and making more challenges for the hero but why take a character and make him weaker still than he already is in the comic book universe? Again, this reminds me of reading Priests vision of what he was going to do to BP if the series hadn't gotten canceled while he was writing it. He was going to make T'Challa into a world class villain like Doom, allow Storm to marry T'Challa but divorce him and hook Ross up with Monica. I see a pattern here. Priest really wants to get the "larger demographic" to relate to his stories, which I understand. But does he have to lead these characters and their supporting cast down these dark roads when there are barely any black heroes of worth in comics as it is? All in the name of Drama? Pu-leez!! It's bad enough he didn't want to write BP when he was first given the assignment in the first place.

With all this said, I AM a fan of his run of BP though if he had been allowed to write in the changes he wanted I would have eventually dropped the book eventually. Thank God, Reggie took over. I don't care what the haters say. T'Challa would eventually have sucked.

Wasn't Prest also responsible for turning Steel's family, the Irons clan from a slightly poorer version of the Huxtables into a mass of abuse and disfucntion? It's almost like he thought that his happy family was too good to be true.

Note that Steel lasted nearly FOUR YEARS at DC before Priest came on the book. This may be another case where his attempts to mainstream the book drove off its target audience.  On the other hand, along with Denis Cowan that was the first time Steel had an all-black artist writer team.

Offline The Evasive 1

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2007, 11:18:11 am »
[Wasn't Prest also responsible for turning Steel's family, the Irons clan from a slightly poorer version of the Huxtables into a mass of abuse and disfucntion? It's almost like he thought that his happy family was too good to be true.
Yeah, I remember that. That was f@#%ed up too. Even the characters were drawn "uglier" than what was seen before in the series. All of a sudden the Natasha mother gained 300 lbs. Her brother walked around with no shirt and pants hanging off his butt and he always had a 40 in his hand. The grandfather was senile all of sudden. Added to that, they didn't nor cared to talk to Steel and apparently he felt the same. What happen to his guilt for exposing his identity and getting them all in danger. He was originally portrayed to really love his family. When Priest got it, Steel acted like he could have cared less. In fact, most times he didn't pay attention to Natasha. In fact, Natasha herself changed and started acting like some ignorant black round the way girl who insulted everyone she came into contact with. It appeared to me she was now acting like the negative stereotype of an angry black woman. who rolls her eyes and cusses out anyone for anything she doesn't like. Maybe Priest was portraying her as acting out to get Steel's attention. IF that's the case, I didn't think it was that obvious.

Note that Steel lasted nearly FOUR YEARS at DC before Priest came on the book. This may be another case where his attempts to mainstream the book drove off its target audience.  On the other hand, along with Denis Cowan that was the first time Steel had an all-black artist writer team.

Yeah this was one of the positive factors of that run.

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2007, 07:55:41 pm »
I would argue that the debut of Storm - the blue eyed, long-haired African with no concept of clothing, for crying out loud - was more racist than BP could ever be.

In fact, Natasha herself changed and started acting like some ignorant black round the way girl who insulted everyone she came into contact with. It appeared to me she was now acting like the negative stereotype of an angry black woman. who rolls her eyes and cusses out anyone for anything she doesn't like.

God, that's why I'm going to weep buckets the day Hudlin leaves this title. I just FEEL Sassy Negress Storm is going to make an appearance between now and the day I die.

Ev - the siggy, LOVE IT!!! "Mr. Han? Suddenly, I'd like to leave your island..."
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 08:00:05 pm by Jenn »

Offline Yaw

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2007, 07:53:10 pm »
yeah, Ross was a plot device ... a funny plot device, but a plot device nonetheless.

Speaking of which, did any of you read "Steel" after Priest took it over (before it too got canceled)? The writers before hand were not that great and Priest DID up the level of quality somewhat. However, I soon realized he was trying to put that "Ross" element in his stories as he made up this white kid who apparently sweeps Steel's niece, Natasha, off her feet within a period of two issues. This kid, to me, had the same qualities as Ross. In fact, it pretty much WAS Ross as a sixteen year old. It seemed like Priest was once again throwing in a white character who went around telling "black" themed jokes, which is what Ross did on occasion and attempting to provide comic relief for the story. What is also interesting is how when Priest's takes over the character of Steel he makes him weaker than he was ever written by other writers (including white writers) and the one romantic interest starts playing Steel for the real antagonist of the story. Priest also makes  the resident black girl wave off all potential suitors in the 'hood who approach her except a scraggly dress white kid, with holes in his jeans and long hair, who shows up on her door step and offers to buy ice cream which she immediately jumps on after dissin' everyone else (including brothas if I remember right). This romantic hook up happens in the FIRST ISSUE. Talk about a rushed romance. Forget about the uproar T'Challa and Storm's union caused.

Why does Priest come in and cut these black heroes and their stories down to the knees? I understand the idea of drama and making more challenges for the hero but why take a character and make him weaker still than he already is in the comic book universe? Again, this reminds me of reading Priests vision of what he was going to do to BP if the series hadn't gotten canceled while he was writing it. He was going to make T'Challa into a world class villain like Doom, allow Storm to marry T'Challa but divorce him and hook Ross up with Monica. I see a pattern here. Priest really wants to get the "larger demographic" to relate to his stories, which I understand. But does he have to lead these characters and their supporting cast down these dark roads when there are barely any black heroes of worth in comics as it is? All in the name of Drama? Pu-leez!! It's bad enough he didn't want to write BP when he was first given the assignment in the first place.

With all this said, I AM a fan of his run of BP though if he had been allowed to write in the changes he wanted I would have eventually dropped the book eventually. Thank God, Reggie took over. I don't care what the haters say. T'Challa would eventually have sucked.

people want to worship the ground the Priest walks on (especially white folks only when compared to other Black writers) but the more I read his stuff (essays, opinions and comics) the more I don't like his views on alot of things.  His comics commonly had that deluding "white" element in his stories that just seem to scream "CROSSOVER!!"

Xero
Quantum and Woody
Falcon and Sgt Tork
etc.

Offline The Evasive 1

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2007, 12:52:59 am »
yeah, Ross was a plot device ... a funny plot device, but a plot device nonetheless.

Speaking of which, did any of you read "Steel" after Priest took it over (before it too got canceled)? The writers before hand were not that great and Priest DID up the level of quality somewhat. However, I soon realized he was trying to put that "Ross" element in his stories as he made up this white kid who apparently sweeps Steel's niece, Natasha, off her feet within a period of two issues. This kid, to me, had the same qualities as Ross. In fact, it pretty much WAS Ross as a sixteen year old. It seemed like Priest was once again throwing in a white character who went around telling "black" themed jokes, which is what Ross did on occasion and attempting to provide comic relief for the story. What is also interesting is how when Priest's takes over the character of Steel he makes him weaker than he was ever written by other writers (including white writers) and the one romantic interest starts playing Steel for the real antagonist of the story. Priest also makes  the resident black girl wave off all potential suitors in the 'hood who approach her except a scraggly dress white kid, with holes in his jeans and long hair, who shows up on her door step and offers to buy ice cream which she immediately jumps on after dissin' everyone else (including brothas if I remember right). This romantic hook up happens in the FIRST ISSUE. Talk about a rushed romance. Forget about the uproar T'Challa and Storm's union caused.

Why does Priest come in and cut these black heroes and their stories down to the knees? I understand the idea of drama and making more challenges for the hero but why take a character and make him weaker still than he already is in the comic book universe? Again, this reminds me of reading Priests vision of what he was going to do to BP if the series hadn't gotten canceled while he was writing it. He was going to make T'Challa into a world class villain like Doom, allow Storm to marry T'Challa but divorce him and hook Ross up with Monica. I see a pattern here. Priest really wants to get the "larger demographic" to relate to his stories, which I understand. But does he have to lead these characters and their supporting cast down these dark roads when there are barely any black heroes of worth in comics as it is? All in the name of Drama? Pu-leez!! It's bad enough he didn't want to write BP when he was first given the assignment in the first place.

With all this said, I AM a fan of his run of BP though if he had been allowed to write in the changes he wanted I would have eventually dropped the book eventually. Thank God, Reggie took over. I don't care what the haters say. T'Challa would eventually have sucked.

people want to worship the ground the Priest walks on (especially white folks only when compared to other Black writers) but the more I read his stuff (essays, opinions and comics) the more I don't like his views on alot of things.  His comics commonly had that deluding "white" element in his stories that just seem to scream "CROSSOVER!!"

Xero
Quantum and Woody
Falcon and Sgt Tork
etc.

You know one thing I always thought was kind of funny about Priest was that he always wanted to be known as a good comic book writer instead of a good black comic book writer. Yet, he kept bringing up how he was wronged in that the comic book industry would not recognize him as the first black comic book editor. This reminds me of how African American actors and comedians (i.e. Bernie Mack, Nia Long, etc.) will say similar statements of how they want to be recognized for just being entertainers, not black entertainers. Yet they will be happy to get those BET awards and NAACP recognition.

BTW, I do dig some Preist's work (Black Panther, of course) but I have to point out somethings I don't particularly like that he has done.

Offline Marvelous

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Re: Was Marvel being racist when the originally created Black Panther?
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2007, 01:52:48 am »
No.


"2. IF YOU DON'T READ THE BOOK BUT ARE WILLING TO ARGUE ABOUT IT EITHER YOU ARE:
a) An idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
b) A liar who is a fan who can't admit it to himself or others."