Author Topic: The Black Comic Book debate  (Read 7261 times)

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

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Re: The Black Comic Book debate
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2009, 11:07:18 pm »
Kyle Rayner's Latino heritage is virtually non-existant in the comics and this fact is evidenced by the lack of racial vitriol thrown at the character during the H.E.A.T. VS Kyle fans war.

A serious examination of how the White comic buying audience intersects with other demographics in terms of entertainment media would be interesting.

The insular comic fan defense doesn't work as we look at the success of characters like Kyle Rayner, Bart Allen, Cassandra Cain and Bucky. All of the aforementioned characters picked up the mantle of established characters and yet they were never exposed to the type of vitriol directed toward charcters fof color who did the same.

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: The Black Comic Book debate
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2009, 12:19:57 am »
If the "Cosby" approach worked, John Stewart would be the main Green Lantern now.  He's always been a classy guy, and to most of the non-comic reading world, he IS the Green Lantern through the animated series.  But he was pushed aside for no good reason.

Reg, I gotta disagree with you there too.  John WAS pushed aside for a reason. 

Hal Jordan. 

I know John was in the cartoon, but I didn't watch that; I read the comics.  For most of my comic book life, Hal has been THE Green Lantern.  Guy is my favorite, I like John and Kyle too, but it was always going to be Hal in the end, whether he was displacing John, Kyle or Guy.

I'd rather have John join GL Corp and get the time he deserves there.  He's proven himself to be a leader and I'd like to see him join the honor guard with Guy and Kyle.

I grew up with Hal too.  The same way folks from another generation grew up with Alan Scott.

Offline FLEX HECTIC

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Re: The Black Comic Book debate
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2009, 02:25:03 pm »
I read in a sales and marketing book that "all sales are emotional!"

I can see the point that was made from the video about Capcom and what is often done at Marvel, DC or in the movies concerning race in the dominant super hero role.

I believe it touches upon certain alpha male personas within the super hero genre. Many white males see themselves in that position in life as well as fantasy where as many black males do not.

Super heroes are fictional characters that have some aspects of real life mixed in to add to the mystique surrounding them as a probable or as a possible.

The problem I see in the black super hero genre is no one has assumed the role of Jack Kirby, Stan Lee or even Speilberg for that matter and taken control of that market as a face. We have a whole lot of "SHY" super hero creators that seem to want to avoid the controversial confontations with the fanboy and the fanbro community as if geeks and nerds bite harder than they bark. That is soooo not heroic and does not endear you to fans who want to see you do battle with the forces of evil in real life and then win them over in the make believe!

Do we as a black men feel heroic to the point of assuming the drivers seat position or are we waiting and hoping for someone to seat us there as a show of faith? The super hero seat is taken and not given!

Often we release a black super hero only to see it fail or not reach A-list status and then we deteremine that maybe there is not a big enough black comic book audience out there.

But if "all sales are emotional" then perhaps what needed to be done is pathologically find out what makes the black audience tick and then deliver it even if it means drastic alterations to canon, continuity and quite possibly the whole story arc. We need to be in the trenches getting our primary colored suits dirty thus earning that on the sideline audience. If we build it they will come.

Another factor is this divided black comic book audience that exists on various alternate websites needs to be united as one functioning unit so that our purchasing power and overall influence on sales and marketing is increased. Every fanbro has friends who have friends and so on... and so on... and so on!

Money Talks!

From where Capcom, Marvel, DC and Hollywood sit they do not see someone black playing super hero in real life and making a stand for the black super hero genre in the fantasy realm so this will continue until things change on our end!

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

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Re: The Black Comic Book debate
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2009, 02:51:21 pm »
If the "Cosby" approach worked, John Stewart would be the main Green Lantern now.  He's always been a classy guy, and to most of the non-comic reading world, he IS the Green Lantern through the animated series.  But he was pushed aside for no good reason.

Reg, I gotta disagree with you there too.  John WAS pushed aside for a reason. 

Hal Jordan. 

I know John was in the cartoon, but I didn't watch that; I read the comics.  For most of my comic book life, Hal has been THE Green Lantern.  Guy is my favorite, I like John and Kyle too, but it was always going to be Hal in the end, whether he was displacing John, Kyle or Guy.

I'd rather have John join GL Corp and get the time he deserves there.  He's proven himself to be a leader and I'd like to see him join the honor guard with Guy and Kyle.

I grew up with Hal too.  The same way folks from another generation grew up with Alan Scott.

This Hal defense doesn't fly when one looks at the history of publication as well.

John Stweart is a contemporary of Hal, not some usurper who appeared decades later to take over a position.

Offline JLI Jesse

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Re: The Black Comic Book debate
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2009, 05:21:48 pm »
If the "Cosby" approach worked, John Stewart would be the main Green Lantern now.  He's always been a classy guy, and to most of the non-comic reading world, he IS the Green Lantern through the animated series.  But he was pushed aside for no good reason.

Reg, I gotta disagree with you there too.  John WAS pushed aside for a reason. 

Hal Jordan. 

I know John was in the cartoon, but I didn't watch that; I read the comics.  For most of my comic book life, Hal has been THE Green Lantern.  Guy is my favorite, I like John and Kyle too, but it was always going to be Hal in the end, whether he was displacing John, Kyle or Guy.

I'd rather have John join GL Corp and get the time he deserves there.  He's proven himself to be a leader and I'd like to see him join the honor guard with Guy and Kyle.

I grew up with Hal too.  The same way folks from another generation grew up with Alan Scott.

This Hal defense doesn't fly when one looks at the history of publication as well.

John Stweart is a contemporary of Hal, not some usurper who appeared decades later to take over a position.

He may be a "contemporary" but looking back from the 60s up until his "death" Hal was the GL in the JLA, the GL who had his own book, etc.  Would anyone have cared if John was behind Zero Hour?  Not really, but Hal's defection really made waves.  Much like Guy, John took his place in the JLA from time to time and would take over the main book from time to time, but Hal is the silver age Green Lantern and to many people that makes him the classic.  John and Guy will never be Hal's equal as far as comics go and at this point, Kyle probably won't either.

Offline Pantherfan

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Re: The Black Comic Book debate
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2009, 07:03:12 pm »
If the "Cosby" approach worked, John Stewart would be the main Green Lantern now.  He's always been a classy guy, and to most of the non-comic reading world, he IS the Green Lantern through the animated series.  But he was pushed aside for no good reason.

Reg, I gotta disagree with you there too.  John WAS pushed aside for a reason. 

Hal Jordan. 

I know John was in the cartoon, but I didn't watch that; I read the comics.  For most of my comic book life, Hal has been THE Green Lantern.  Guy is my favorite, I like John and Kyle too, but it was always going to be Hal in the end, whether he was displacing John, Kyle or Guy.

I'd rather have John join GL Corp and get the time he deserves there.  He's proven himself to be a leader and I'd like to see him join the honor guard with Guy and Kyle.


To hop on Reg's comment, D.C. should've capitalized on the growing popularity of John Stewart as a result of the cartoon. It just llooks like the current regime at DC just doing retreads of the Silver Age instead pushing characters forward.

Offline Battle

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Re: The Black Comic Book debate
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2009, 08:07:19 am »
To hop on Reg's comment, D.C. should've capitalized on the growing popularity of John Stewart as a result of the cartoon. It just looks like the current regime at DC just doing retreads of the Silver Age instead pushing characters forward.


DC comics has always been unappealing to me, both in editorial and in content.

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: The Black Comic Book debate
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2009, 04:25:15 pm »
If the "Cosby" approach worked, John Stewart would be the main Green Lantern now.  He's always been a classy guy, and to most of the non-comic reading world, he IS the Green Lantern through the animated series.  But he was pushed aside for no good reason.

Reg, I gotta disagree with you there too.  John WAS pushed aside for a reason. 

Hal Jordan. 

I know John was in the cartoon, but I didn't watch that; I read the comics.  For most of my comic book life, Hal has been THE Green Lantern.  Guy is my favorite, I like John and Kyle too, but it was always going to be Hal in the end, whether he was displacing John, Kyle or Guy.

I'd rather have John join GL Corp and get the time he deserves there.  He's proven himself to be a leader and I'd like to see him join the honor guard with Guy and Kyle.

I grew up with Hal too.  The same way folks from another generation grew up with Alan Scott.

This Hal defense doesn't fly when one looks at the history of publication as well.

John Stweart is a contemporary of Hal, not some usurper who appeared decades later to take over a position.

He may be a "contemporary" but looking back from the 60s up until his "death" Hal was the GL in the JLA, the GL who had his own book, etc.  Would anyone have cared if John was behind Zero Hour?  Not really, but Hal's defection really made waves.  Much like Guy, John took his place in the JLA from time to time and would take over the main book from time to time, but Hal is the silver age Green Lantern and to many people that makes him the classic.  John and Guy will never be Hal's equal as far as comics go and at this point, Kyle probably won't either.

When you had new readers coming to comics by way of the collectables/cards frenzy in the 90's, Kyle was the reigning G.L.

These readers didn't really know who Hal was.

But since Kyle was a young guy like Damage or Ray or Azarel young readers could identify with them.

Once folks figured out that you couldn't actually fund your college education by selling off your comic books, a good part of the readership jetted. The folks that stayed got "treated" to an onslaught of silver age characters (that they were unfamilar with and didn't care about) taking over their books.

D.C. managed to alienate the few new readers it had managed to get since the 80's.

Now while I totally understand why D.C. did what it did (only a 30+ something has the cash or
the inclination to buy a 60 dollar Jay-Golden Age Flash-Garrick action figure)  It wasn't the brightest long term stragegy.