Author Topic: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?  (Read 10372 times)

Offline The Evasive 1

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WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« on: October 30, 2009, 10:35:00 am »
I know there is another thread about the Blue Marvel with a petition, but it doesn't seem to be getting any real attention. I am surprised. When the character and mini-series was introduced we were all on here praising Greivoux and Marvel for finally having a Black character that was in the same league as Thor and the Sentry. Now the character has vanished without so much as a whimper and nobody seems irritated. What the heck happened? We now have one of the most powerful characters in the MU and he just disappears??? DC is doing the same thing with Icon. McDuffie introduces him and them no one wants to use the character in their stories?

I don't want to pull any "cards" here, but it sure is interesting that two black "supermen" have been introduced and now they are gone into limbo. I guess I shouldn't be surprised....

 >:(

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2009, 06:31:38 pm »
Marvel?  They're too obsessed on events.  Blue Marvel wants page time, he needs to be part of an event.  Solo stories in the corner of universe are fine for existing fans (and potentially good reads), but exposure would come from him showing up in Seige and Doomwar.

But maybe Marvel will slow down on the events and allow independant storylines to shine.

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2009, 07:40:39 am »
I definitely think a Blue Marvel Dark Reign one shot is in order. I just can't believe that Osborn would ignore this guy. He would want him to join the team or neutralize him. Also, the New Anvengers and other anti-Osborn forces would want BM on their side to counter Sentry. I think BM deserves a one-shot at least. Tying him to Dark Reign would up his profile as well.

As for Icon, I'm not quite sure where he fits in at DC. It would've been interesting to perhaps have him take over for Supes instead of Mon-El, though I doubt that would've made much sense or been financially advisable since Mon-El has a longer history and association with Superman. Unfortunately I think the reintroduction of the Milestone characters was bungled. I much rather would've had them remain in their own universe, like the Wildstorm characters. But get at least an equal push as those characters. It would be cool to do something with Icon, etc. for Blackest Night, but Johns, etc. are not even giving John Stewart much to do in that series. If anything, with all the BN books and tie-ins, all the human GLs (Jordan, Stewart, Gardner, and Raynor) should be headlining books for the run of the series.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 07:45:10 am by Emperorjones »

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2009, 08:24:37 am »
For DC, I think DC is going in too many directions.  Right after re-introducing Milestone, then they introduce the line Shield and Web are part of, and was there another line???  On top of that, there is so much rebooting and reshuffling, that it is hard to keep track of the core, let alone new guys.

Dark Reign Blue Marvel--agree with what you said.

Offline voodoochild

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Re: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2009, 05:03:05 pm »
See, I think this is exactly the problem with trying to retcon a character as powerful as Blue Marvel into the greater Marvel continuity's past.  The question of "Where was he when..?" always comes around.  How does he justify sitting out WWH, The Civil War, AND the Skrull Invasion, not to mention all of the other world threatening events that have happened in the MU since the 1960's?  Now that he's been "reactivated", how does a character this formidable exist so completely off the grid?  Wouldn't Blue Marvel have been one of Nick Fury's earliest recruits in his war against Osborn?  Wouldn't Osborn have approached the Brother with an offer he couldn't or shouldn't refuse?

I appreciate the effort with creating an omega level Black character, but his presence in the MU feels shoehorned and inorganic.

Sorry.  :(

Offline DJfunkyPuddle

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Re: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2009, 05:15:58 pm »
See, I think this is exactly the problem with trying to retcon a character as powerful as Blue Marvel into the greater Marvel continuity's past.  The question of "Where was he when..?" always comes around.  How does he justify sitting out WWH, The Civil War, AND the Skrull Invasion, not to mention all of the other world threatening events that have happened in the MU since the 1960's?  Now that he's been "reactivated", how does a character this formidable exist so completely off the grid?  Wouldn't Blue Marvel have been one of Nick Fury's earliest recruits in his war against Osborn?  Wouldn't Osborn have approached the Brother with an offer he couldn't or shouldn't refuse?

I appreciate the effort with creating an omega level Black character, but his presence in the MU feels shoehorned and inorganic.

Sorry.  :(

Maybe BM could be brought into the final Dark Reign event to make up for his disappearance over the years?  A "My bad guys, but I'm here for you now," type of thing.  It would be nice to see him reduce Osborn to a red smear.

Offline The Evasive 1

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Re: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2009, 08:21:33 pm »
See, I think this is exactly the problem with trying to retcon a character as powerful as Blue Marvel into the greater Marvel continuity's past.  The question of "Where was he when..?" always comes around.  How does he justify sitting out WWH, The Civil War, AND the Skrull Invasion, not to mention all of the other world threatening events that have happened in the MU since the 1960's?  Now that he's been "reactivated", how does a character this formidable exist so completely off the grid?  Wouldn't Blue Marvel have been one of Nick Fury's earliest recruits in his war against Osborn?  Wouldn't Osborn have approached the Brother with an offer he couldn't or shouldn't refuse?

I appreciate the effort with creating an omega level Black character, but his presence in the MU feels shoehorned and inorganic.

Sorry.  :(
I understand your point. I guess I was just able to buy the story of where and why he wasn't around since the 60's with Greivoux's ideas. At least I was cool with it thinking we would see the character from that point on in other major Marvel events. Unfortunately.....

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2009, 02:44:07 pm »
Well, Bendis is championing use of the Sentry at Marvel so he gets constantly used.

For Adam to get equal shine it would take a Brubaker, Pak, Millar or Loeb wanting
to use him for him to get mainstreamed into the Marvel Universe.


Offline JLI Jesse

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Re: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2009, 07:24:35 pm »
Well, Bendis is championing use of the Sentry at Marvel so he gets constantly used.

For Adam to get equal shine it would take a Brubaker, Pak, Millar or Loeb wanting
to use him for him to get mainstreamed into the Marvel Universe.



But the Sentry did spend several years MIA before Bendis decided to you use him.  I think he was a character better left to his mini.  Who knows, maybe the Blue Marvel is too

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2009, 03:05:06 am »
I see what both Voodoochild and JLI Jesse are saying, but if they didn't do anything with characters like Sentry and Blue Marvel after creating them, there would be some new event that came along where they would probably create similar Omega-level characters. Or the fans of those minis would logically ask where was Sentry or Blue Marvel when a major event happened? Now that Blue Marvel has been created I say use him.

I shared some of VC's concerns about BM sitting out too much of Marvel's recent history. I think his backstory was intriguing, but it made no sense that future Presidents, not as concerned about the racial implications of his power wouldn't reactivate him to tackle real world situations or the invasions, etc. that have happened to America/Earth in the Marvel universe. I also don't think it makes much sense to leave his keeping in the hands of one white woman-despite the mystical power that white women hold over black men ;D. Plus, I don't see why BM wouldn't challenge the Executive Order, especially after black heroes like Falcon, War Machine, and Luke Cage came along.

His intriguing backstory started to fall apart for me and I lost a little respect for the guy who just sat back and took it instead of standing up for what he felt was right. Now, Mr. Grevioux hinted that BM wasn't totally sidelined after the Executive Order, that he might've been doing stuff secretly. There was at least one example of that in the miniseries. Hopefully we'll get to see more of that in a future mini.

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2009, 07:01:47 am »
If you wanted an explanation for all of that you could have it where he operated in secret overseas(much in the same way that Superman used to dash around so fast he was virtually invisible) averting natural disasters and the like during the time of the executive order.

As far as what heís been doing lately I can think of several reasons why he wouldnít participate in recent events 1) he did-you just didnít see him do it 2)He saw that they jailed and shot Captain American decided nothing had changed and just let the new jack heroes fend for themselves 3)being that Adam is roughly at the Sentryís power level but sane, everybody(The Skrulls, Fury and Osborne) decided to leave him alone out of fear.

P.S.: I am of the opinion that both the Sentry and Blue Marvel are too powerful to work in the M.U.

The M.U. works best when the villains slightly out-power the heroes.

Green Goblin could fly and Spider Man canít. Red Skull has an army and Captain America is just one guy (with an occasional sidekick). Dr. Doom is a technologist with both science and magic at his disposal and a relentless robot army at his command and the F.F. are a squabbling family of Superheroes whose leader has only mastered science. Loki is a cunning and tricky sorcerer and Thor is a fearless warrior who acts before he thinks.

At least as originally conceived these guys were ligit threats to our heroes. What could threaten Adam and the Sentry? Galactus? Ego?

Those Cosmic characters are best if used sparingly. What are Adam and the Sentry supposed to do the rest of the time?
  
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 07:15:36 am by Vic Vega »

Offline Battle

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Re: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2009, 09:24:44 am »
P.S.: I am of the opinion that both the Sentry and Blue Marvel are too powerful to work in the M.U.

The M.U. works best when the villains slightly out-power the heroes.

Green Goblin could fly and Spider Man canít. Red Skull has an army and Captain America is just one guy (with an occasional sidekick). Dr. Doom is a technologist with both science and magic at his disposal and a relentless robot army at his command and the F.F. are a squabbling family of Superheroes whose leader has only mastered science. Loki is a cunning and tricky sorcerer and Thor is a fearless warrior who acts before he thinks.



I agree.

Offline voodoochild

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Re: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2009, 04:25:16 pm »

I shared some of VC's concerns about BM sitting out too much of Marvel's recent history. I think his backstory was intriguing, but it made no sense that future Presidents, not as concerned about the racial implications of his power wouldn't reactivate him to tackle real world situations or the invasions, etc. that have happened to America/Earth in the Marvel universe. I also don't think it makes much sense to leave his keeping in the hands of one white woman-despite the mystical power that white women hold over black men ;D. Plus, I don't see why BM wouldn't challenge the Executive Order, especially after black heroes like Falcon, War Machine, and Luke Cage came along.

RIGHT!  If you want to control a Black man and keep him pacified in the 1960's, do you really give this assignment to a blonde haired-blue eyed white female agent?  The first time they get attacked for being a mixed race couple...it's all over. :D

His intriguing backstory started to fall apart for me and I lost a little respect for the guy who just sat back and took it instead of standing up for what he felt was right. Now, Mr. Grevioux hinted that BM wasn't totally sidelined after the Executive Order, that he might've been doing stuff secretly. There was at least one example of that in the miniseries. Hopefully we'll get to see more of that in a future mini.
Again, right!  No disrespect to the creator or the fans, but having Adam go all pacifist and non-confrontational during some of the most turbulent years of the modern era is the inherent problem with this story.  You've created a God-like Black character and have him sit out the Civil Rights movement, Vietnam, and the Black Power Era?  Really?  He's chilling at home with Blondie while Watts is burning?  Seriously?  It's actually a great storytelling choice if it's a topic you're going to deal with later in the narrative.  Like having Blue Adam explain himself to Falcon or Luke Cage, or to survivors of whatever fictional cataclysm a character as powerful as Blue Adam could have easily averted but didn't 'cause he chose not to.  Is he so honor bound to his word to a long dead president that he stood by and watched thousands suffer when he could have helped?  What kind of psychosis could a character like that have?  Does his choice back in the 60's haunt him?  Maybe he feels he is above the issues of normal people.   That's a great story worth exploring.  Not some typical lame super villain confrontation we've all seen ten million times before.
I hope Grievoux gets to explore some of this stuff 

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2009, 06:47:54 pm »

I shared some of VC's concerns about BM sitting out too much of Marvel's recent history. I think his backstory was intriguing, but it made no sense that future Presidents, not as concerned about the racial implications of his power wouldn't reactivate him to tackle real world situations or the invasions, etc. that have happened to America/Earth in the Marvel universe. I also don't think it makes much sense to leave his keeping in the hands of one white woman-despite the mystical power that white women hold over black men ;D. Plus, I don't see why BM wouldn't challenge the Executive Order, especially after black heroes like Falcon, War Machine, and Luke Cage came along.

RIGHT!  If you want to control a Black man and keep him pacified in the 1960's, do you really give this assignment to a blonde haired-blue eyed white female agent? The first time they get attacked for being a mixed race couple...it's all over. :D

Nah, you give the brotherman Philipina twins. By the time he'd of come up for air Carter'd  be the Prez. ;D

His intriguing backstory started to fall apart for me and I lost a little respect for the guy who just sat back and took it instead of standing up for what he felt was right. Now, Mr. Grevioux hinted that BM wasn't totally sidelined after the Executive Order, that he might've been doing stuff secretly. There was at least one example of that in the miniseries. Hopefully we'll get to see more of that in a future mini.

Again, right!  No disrespect to the creator or the fans, but having Adam go all pacifist and non-confrontational during some of the most turbulent years of the modern era is the inherent problem with this story.  You've created a God-like Black character and have him sit out the Civil Rights movement, Vietnam, and the Black Power Era?  Really?  He's chilling at home with Blondie while Watts is burning?  Seriously?  It's actually a great storytelling choice if it's a topic you're going to deal with later in the narrative.  Like having Blue Adam explain himself to Falcon or Luke Cage, or to survivors of whatever fictional cataclysm a character as powerful as Blue Adam could have easily averted but didn't 'cause he chose not to.  Is he so honor bound to his word to a long dead president that he stood by and watched thousands suffer when he could have helped?  What kind of psychosis could a character like that have?  Does his choice back in the 60's haunt him?  Maybe he feels he is above the issues of normal people.   That's a great story worth exploring.  Not some typical lame super villain confrontation we've all seen ten million times before.
I hope Grievoux gets to explore some of this stuff  

The writers got around this with ICON mainly because the lead character had lived thru the slave days and reconstuction. For him, the 60's were a case of A)this too will pass and B) his wife had died so he had his own issues to work out and the chaos around him would have seemed secondary. 

The Blue Marvel doesn't have the detachment that comes from being near ageless. He may have had however felt that he was hindering mankind.

He'd of been the only known hero in that era. Without the natural check that a worldful of heroes would be to him his every public act would have been a paradigm shift.  So maybe he took a non-intervention stance.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 02:25:23 pm by Vic Vega »

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: WHERE IS ADAM THE BLUE MARVEL?!?!?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2009, 07:19:44 pm »
The potential for a Dr. Manhattan like complex could be there for Blue Marvel, but that's not what I got from the mini. He's not removed from humanity, and I think he perhaps agonized from his decision, but from what we've seen so far, he honored the Executive Order for the most part. So it didn't bother him that much. Plus he fell in love with the agent and they had a family and he became a teacher so that show's some acceptance of the status quo.

I applaud Mr. Grevioux's efforts, but once again, I think the origin just doesn't jibe with the kind of stand up character that he created. I can see how Adam might not want to be used as a political tool by either whites or blacks, or how he might quit for a while, out of fear of what his revelation might do. But I can't see him keeping that position, not when prominent blacks like Thurgood Marshall and astronaut Robert Lawrence, etc. and others become important national figures and the world doesn't end. Maybe the idea of a black superman might scare white racists enough that they won't attack blacks? Maybe they might be too afraid to do so. It's an idea that wasn't explored in the mini. Like others have said, would BM sit out Watts, the other riots, especially the ones after Dr. King's assassination? What about the Boston busing crisis? Or the LA Riots? And those are just a few of the racial disturbances. What about stuff like the Ethiopian famine, Chernobyl, the San Francisco earthquakes, Rwanda, Somalia, Bosnia, etc., etc. I could also see LBJ or Nixon trying to bring Adam aboard as an example of what a respectable Negro is like to perhaps counter the growing radicalism of the time. Also, the idea that COINTELPRO wouldn't be out to neutralize BM doesn't make sense, which goes back to having one agent-an agent who fell in love with him and compromised herself-as the one keeping tabs on him.

Johh Ridley covered similar ground in his American Way series. Though it wasn't perfect, Mr. Ridley's kept his story squarely in the 60's and had his black hero-the New American-deal more directly with the racism surrounding his revelation. Whereas BM sort of bypassed that, leaving a large gap in his backstory.

I also can't buy the idea that the Skrulls and Osborn would be so afraid of BM that they would leave him alone.There's no gurantee that he would do the same to them, so it makes sense to co-opt him or destroy him. Leaving him be doesn't make much  sense. Same with the heroes. How can you not try to get this guy on your team?

It might have been better to just make BM a contemporary hero without that backstory.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 07:23:45 pm by Emperorjones »