Author Topic: FIRST STEPS TOWARD A-LIST  (Read 37781 times)

Offline Seven

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FIRST STEPS TOWARD A-LIST
« on: November 07, 2009, 08:02:56 am »
According to Mr. Maberry

Quote
Issue #10 will give you another glimpse into the kind of power upgrade T'Challa's getting. Not everything is measured in how many tons a hero can lift, but in how many kinds of battles he's prepared for

Quote
For the record, T'Challa can now lift about one ton.  Not Spider-man level, but not shabby either.  Enhanced power in the hands of a physicist has a lot of potential. (and fighting is all about physics, when you think about it: mass, torque, depth of penetration, force, etc.)


I'm hoping he is now very similar to Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) only with the speed and strength upgrades.

Quote
In Batgirl #14 the writer, Kelley Puckett, places Cassandra in a position within the story in which her skills are analyzed by a group of government experts. Through this panel, the creative team reveal to the reader that the character is written as having no metagene. Her genetic status was felt to be incompatible with her recorded abilities by one of the experts, however, who stated: "Her individual moves are borderline human. It's her aggregate speed that's metahuman. Look -- humans can throw a 100 miles-per-hour fastball, smash concrete blocks with their heads, and run 4.2 forties. What they can't do is all of that at once. It's not so much physical as... as mentally impossible. Too much to coordinate."
---Kelley Puckett (w), Damion Scott (p), John Lowe (i). Batgirl (14) (May 2001), DC Comics.

I don't know who has read her books on HEF, but she has some amazing feats, and was pretty popular because of them. I'm convinced that T'challa would be the same.

I think he should be able to bullet time, to show off his speed. In the same manner that Hulk and other heroes are strength based, Tíchalla should be about speed and agility, with his one ton level strength.

Quote
power in the hands of a physicist has a lot of potential. (and fighting is all about physics, when you think about it: mass, torque, depth of penetration, force, etc

So his genius analytical/physicist mind in tandem with is upgrade should allow him to do some incredible speed and agility feats in my opinion. Think the movie Equilibrium (classic movie btw, C. Baleís audition for Dark Knight basically) with itís Gun Kata.

Quote
Gun Kata is a fictional gun-fighting martial art discipline that is a significant part of the film. It is based upon the premise that, given the positions of the participants in a gun battle, the trajectories of fire are statistically predictable. By pure memorization of the positions, one can fire at the most likely location of an enemy without aiming at him in the traditional sense of pointing a gun at a specific target. By the same token, the trajectories of incoming fire are also statistically predictable, so by assuming the appropriate stance, one can keep one's body clear of the most likely way of enemy bullets.

This is also not taking into account one of this main superpowers for many years, that has been ignored or misusedÖ.He has superhuman senses, but he hardly uses them, or in a way that is cool.

He should be able to notice things to a terrifying minutiae degree that others miss would miss. When combined with his analytical abilities and physicist mind  (like Mr. Maberry said with him using his new 1 ton level) this ďsense-tellingĒ (detect whether someone is lying by detecting inflection and change in a subject's voice, observing and interpreting their body language and analyzing physical signs like pulse and heart rate.) would be a great way to show off his super-senses; using them during fights to tell when a person is going to move, there next action or do something. So he would appear  a lot faster because of it. Mr. Hudlin did show this during CW, between Tíchalla and Sue Storm when she was trying to lie to him, that was awesome. I hope this concept is not forgotten.

Tíchalla does not and should not be a clone of Spiderman. So I will have to agree with Marvel and Maberry. Remembering that I didnít want him to be Captain Wakanda (Cap clone). So this physicist slant is pretty awesome, and welcomed.






« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 11:10:23 am by Seven »

Offline Seven

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Re: T'challa's Upgrades part III: What feats should we see?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2009, 09:26:03 am »
Another thing, how does this upgrade improve his chances of facing Doom?

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Re: T'challa's Upgrades part III: What feats should we see?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2009, 02:34:51 pm »
One ton? That's quite realistic,given current Olympic standards...and becomes part of an incredibly impressive arsenal when you factor in his foot speed (definitely faster than CA--who clocks 60mph--even BEFORE his upgrade) his supersenses (how sharp are they now?),his agility,his uberintellect,etc...

....ladies n germs? We're prolly in store for the illest ride with the illest BP and supporting cast ever. And that's sayin LOTS with Dwayne,RH,CJP,and Denys Cowan having made BP the true O.G. he is.

Jonathan? Gotta admit: I'm really impressed with you. You're a worthy successor to your trailblazin forescribes. Lol.
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Offline The Cat

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Re: T'challa's Upgrades part III: What feats should we see?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2009, 05:12:08 am »
^^^^ I agree. I have never seen T'Challa as peak-human; in the way marvel represented him in the past; and I really hope that this adjustment is permanent.  ;)

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: T'challa's Upgrades part III: What feats should we see?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2009, 06:57:22 am »
^^^^ I agree. I have never seen T'Challa as peak-human; in the way marvel represented him in the past; and I really hope that this adjustment is permanent.  ;)

I actually perceive much of what is comsidered "low level" superhuman is ACTUALLY within human performance parameters.

However,the kind of simultaneous performance that Cassandra Cain aka Batgirl is capable of may very well be metahuman,and I think that TChalla should be the pinnacle example of this kind of physical and mental superability.

This approach that jonathan has hinted at,btw,preserves the traditional MU perception of the physical difference between BP and CA: basically CA is stronger and more durable than BP. Our 616 CA has yet to demonstrate the strength levels of our 616 BP's "upgrade",but Ultimate CA is clearly stronger at 5 tons. Steve Rogers will surely be placed around 5 tons upon his 616 return,if for no other reason than the fact that Wolverine should NEVER be stronger than CA (or BP,to be real about it) and Wolverine clocks in at 2 tons. Now recall that we have hundreds of real world examples wherein regular humans experienced a hyperadrenaline dump and moved trucks,vans,etc. when they and/or their loved ones were in danger. This is the kind of strength that is clearly human that should be REGULAR for CA and BP. So we have the most solid real world examples that 5 tons is reasonable for the CA's and BP's of the world.

However,what I think we'll see is that CA will eventually clearly be stronger and more durable than BP,and BP will clearly be quicker,faster,more agile,slicker,more acrobatic,smarter (in the sense that REED,TONY and HANK are smarter than Steve...in a infogeek ubertech sense) and more capable than CA in the sense of say the ultimate Olympic decathlete fused with the ultimate academic decathlete fused is more capable than say the world record setting powerlifter--a specialist--will outperform the decathlete in their chosen specialty.However,BP is far more guileful,clever,ruthless and manipulative than the aforementioned braintrust triumvirate of the MU (which should in actuality be a ogdoad including TCHALLA DOOM THE LEADER maybe KANG and definitely BRUCE BANNER). He supplements his superintellect with the kind of spiritual serenity,ultimate ubercool unflappable prep powerlord,rigorously royal,ubergenius ubertech flyness of CJP BP,and now he has the way overdue illness that jonathan supplies him with.

Remember the kinds of feats that CJP had Bruce Banner-Hulk pull off during CJP's CA+FALCON team up (btw CJP FALC=THEE DEFINITIVE FALCON)? Expect variations to the nth degree of creativity on that theme.

BP is gonna be da ISH,son. Just wish he didn't have to have a power boost to justify very plausible feats on his part.
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Re: T'challa's Upgrades part III: What feats should we see?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2009, 07:16:39 am »
So BP can...decrypt DOOM's encoded transmissions,unravel and foil his latest plots,dodge attacks by supervillains and Doombots, fend off attempts to read his mind,note the arrival of a lethal synthetic virus that THE CABAL tries to kill him and his superhero homies with,analyze its components and construct a cure for the rest of them while TCHALLA uses his ka to render it useless...all while balancing on a laser beam that he's traversing in order to catch DOOM unawares.

That's a aggregate feat TChalla has long been capable of and should now be a staple of his series.
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Offline Seven

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Re: T'challa's Upgrades part III: What feats should we see?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2009, 08:22:42 am »
The question is the 1 ton level is max or his base. It should be his base level (but I'm not the writer lol). That way he can see T'challa once in a while push himself to a great feat that he would not usally do... like 5 tons with max effort. His human frame would still be a reason for him not to do that all the time.

But if max is 1 ton, then I will be kind of disappointed. I hate when characters are boxed up. For example, Wolverine, Cap or Spiderman are never boxed in.

« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 01:21:50 pm by Seven »

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Re: T'challa's Upgrades part III: What feats should we see?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2009, 01:07:12 pm »
The question is the 1 ton level is max or his base. I should be his base level (but I not the writer lol). That way he can see T'challa once in a while push himself to a great feat that he would not usally do... like 5 tons with max effort. His human frame would still be a reason for him not to do that all the time.

But if max is 1 ton, then I will be kind of disappointed. I hate when characters are boxed up. For example, Wolerine, Cap or Spiderman are never boxed in.



Co-sign like tangent's homeboy.
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Offline Seven

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Re: T'challa's Upgrades part III: FIRST STEPS TOWARD A-LIST
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2009, 07:54:36 am »
There is a very interesting thread on CBR which pretty much sums up what I have seen anecdotally with Tíchalla and why I have always been a huge advocate of him getting upgraded and having better feats and Why I think he isnít A-list.

Tíchalla is one of those rare characters that has pretty much everything, his personality, background, upbringing, iconic outfit and more.  But his power-set and how he gets his powers is very, very convoluted and does not really make much sense.  For a lot of people itís one thing that turns them off, they get to the point where they are like cool, cool, cool, then when they see this power-set itís a huge let down.  Powers usually does not make the character, but for some reason in Tíchalla case it does (along with lack of feats).

Let me explain.

Tíchalla becoming Peak-Human from the Heart Shape Herb has *never* made sense to me (or a lot of people for that matter). While this does not take into account all its nuances, in its simplest explanation the HSH was the Wakandan ďsuper soldier formulaĒ but not as good. This is how it was and has been presented for years. This sort of thing was a big factor in the destruction of the character post Lee/Kirby. Not that he had those powers then, but comic-fandom rules came along Cap was THE Peak Human. In tandem with writers after Lee/Kirby/McGregor striping away all the cleverness and technology from Tíchalla, young fans would see this guy in the extremely cool outfit, only to find out he was only human and jumped around a lot. He fought Klaw when he came around and thatís it (The lame avengers run by Roy Thomas, thank god for Mr. Priest ret conning it).

Even if he was shown to be just Ďbelowí Captain America (whoís SSF put him at the very highest possible level of Peak Human) you had characters like Daredevil, Hawkeye, etc who seem just as fast, if not fasterÖ and feats whoís were far better then ĎPeak-humaní Tíchalla. It made no sense, this was killing the character. He had pretty much everything, but for a long time he was just a guy jumping around in a cat suit that everyone the comic (the characters) said was cool, but whose feats where not all that great when compared to the A-list heroes, B-list even.  He was not the guy from FF #52, but someone else. A character with so much potential, stuck in the background. He was still cool, but he was stuck there.

Captain America being Peak Human from the SSF makes sense for Steve Rogers; who was a sickly, geeky kid who became the pinnacle of human perfection for America during WW2, when he joined the SS program while trying to help America. But for Tíchalla it made no sense. Heís royalty and was not some sickly child. He was raised and trained from Birth. If Daredevil and so many others could attain peak human status or near it without any substance, while at the same time having feats that far out classed Tíchalla, understand that this is a huge factor in some comic fans not respecting the character at all. After Lee/Kirby/Donald McGregor and Before C. J Priest he (Tí challa) was totally stripped of all technology and was not a prep master, just a human acrobat in a cat suit that jumped around. The guy standing in the back ground of all the other Avengers. Priest received a lot of hate for returning Tíchalla to his roots, Tíchalla was the biggest bad ass in Marvel period, but other books did not honor it. Understand that this is the real reason why Mr. Hudlin gets a lot of flack, because he was having none of That B.SÖhis run was a big F-u to all the haters out there of the character. He did it his wayÖand he was the first writer (Jason Aaron followed up nicely) that did not hold back with Tíchalla. While Priest explained everything, Mr. Hudlin didnít. Good or bad, I understood why. Spiderman does not explain, neither does Batman. Why should Tíchalla???  None of these characters are with limits, for example Wolverine. He does something above his level and its coolÖ.but Tíchalla always seems to have them.

Still the convoluted background of his powers linger.

Donald McGregor did a great job trying to explain and define the Heart Shape Herb so it would make sense.

Quote
"The poultice stimulated and accentuated the human being's kinesthetic sense. The kinesthetic sense is the subliminal perception that allows human beings to close their eyes, yet know where the different parts of their bodies are. If you didn't have this sense, you couldn't pick your nose or wash your hair if your eyes weren't open. The poultice, plus the stimuli of rigorous theological and physical training, heightened your kinesthetic sense. It heightens the proprioceptors (the proprioceptive system processes the orientation sense to the brain) and perceptions in your body. That is how you sense where a tree limb or a building edge is, know exactly where it is and never have a moment's doubt that your fingers will close about it...The sacred anointment poultice has a second effect on your muscles and ligaments, specifically on the joints where bones connect and swivel, mesh and respond. There are receptors in these joints called the Pacinian corpuscles that carry the signal to the brain to fulfill proper movement. Somehow the poultice is absorbed into those receptors and makes them especially sensitive...This is what enables you to twist and dodge with unparalleled grace."
--- Donald McGregor - Panthers Prey



Quote
ďIn truth, he had been content with the knowledge that the religious rituals had even him a spiritual strength that has in turn enhanced his physical prowessĒ


McGregor accomplished separating the Heart Shape Herb from the Super Soldier formula, however when other writers dumbed down his explanation, it also made Tíchalla the Wakandan Captain America, only he was weaker (and Steve still had far better feats).  Gone was the spiritual strength to enhance his physical prowess, the HSH just turned him peak human, and he could jump around a lot. Priest followed McGregor, but by then what I just explained pretty much was negated.

Hudlin made Tíchalla a product of Royal Wakandan eugenics, but did not touch on the HSH much until the first arc of this volume. The eugenics and warrior training in this volume in my opinion has raised the character up, and giving him new life. Still the issue of the HSH turning someone peak human who should be able to attain peak human status without it is troubling.  Tíchalla and Shuri both should be peak human before they even take the herb. But then that leaves the herb only giving them superhumanly acute senses, which is why McGregorís explanation was always the best. Tíchallaís reflexes, the way he moves, twist and turns, the fact that he can jump and know where to put out his hand without even thinking about it are what the HSH should be about about. Peak Human Status should not even factor in at all.

Also the fact that BAST is granting the power also does not make sense. Why would the Panther god only give his/her top follower peak human ability? That does not make sense at all. This makes Tíchalla look weak in my opinion. it also makes Bast look weak too. Daredevil and many others become Peak human without it, so does Batman and many other DC and Marvel heroes in tandem with better feats.

So the upgrade is pretty awesome to me. 1 ton is great; he does not have to be as strong as Spiderman. Spider-Man is able to lift almost 10 tons at maximum effort.  The question is if Tíchallaís maximum effort is 1 ton versus 1 ton being his base strength (with his maximum effort falling short of Spiderman at about like 5 tons). That latter is the better upgrade. If his maximum effort strength is 1 ton then that is very disappointing. The better way would be to just state his base level, and not give a real limit to who far he can push himself, but make the limit that is decent like 4-5 tons but he could suffer structural damage to his body as the reason why he does not do this.

Like I said, 1 ton is great, but my focus though is on speed. Speed kills, and Tíchallaís speed should be on par with Spiderman. Most who have longed for an upgrade almost never site lifting power or his strength. Even if his max was 1 ton, his speed should be his best physical power.



One thing that does make me kind of weary is turning him into triathlon 2.0. Spider-Man's reflexes are some where around 15 to 18 times that of a normal human and them making Tíchalla being only 3 or 4 is just making him triathlon physically. I fear that is how it will be viewed.  It ready has by some.

When folks compare Tíchalla to another hero itís mostly DCís Batman. The comparison is from the right family. Tíchalla should be compared and more a long the lines of Cassandra Cain (former Batgirl). That is my new beating drum.  She is extremely popular for a reason. She is Ďpeak humaní but she performs what many think Tíchalla should be able to do. If T'challa had her feats he would be one of the most popular heroes at Marvel and yes A-list. So I will start posting them for debate.


Feats and good powers explaintion = closer to A- list.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 11:21:28 am by Seven »

Offline Shade

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Re: T'challa's Upgrades part III: FIRST STEPS TOWARD A-LIST
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2009, 08:14:28 am »
There is a very interesting thread on CBR which pretty much sums up what I have seen anecdotally with Tíchalla and why I have always been a huge advocate of him getting upgraded and having better feats and Why I think he isnít A-list.

Tíchalla is one of those rare characters that have pretty much everything, his personality, background, upbringing, iconic outfit and more.  But his power-set and how he gets his powers is very, very convoluted and does not really make much sense.  For a lot of people itís one thing that turns them off, they get to the point where they are like cool, cool, cool, then when they see this power-set itís a huge let down.  Powers usually does not make the character, but for some reason in Tíchalla case it does (along with lack of feats).

Let me explain.

Tíchalla becoming Peak-Human from the Heart Shape Herb has *never* made sense to me (or a lot of people for that matter). While this does not take into account all its nuances, in its simplest explanation, the HSH was the Wakandan ďsuper soldier formulaĒ but not as good. This is how it was and has been presented for years. This sort of thing was a big factor in the destruction of the character post Lee/Kirby. Not that he had those powers then, but comic-fandom rules came along Cap was the Peak Human. In tandem with writers after Lee/Kirby/McGregor striping away all the cleverness and technology from Tíchalla, young fans would see this guy in the extremely cool outfit, only to find out he was only human and jumped around a lot. He fought Klaw when he came around and thatís it (The lame avengers run by Roy Thomas, thank god for Mr. Priest ret conning it).

Even if he was shown to be just Ďbelowí Captain America (whoís SSF put him at the very highest possible level of Peak Human) you had characters like Daredevil, Hawkeye, etc who seem just as fast, if not fasterÖ and feats whoís were far better then ĎPeak-humaní Tíchalla. It made no sense, this was killing the character. He had pretty much everything, but for a long time he was just a guy jumping around in a cat suit that everyone the comic (the characters) said was cool, but whose feats where not all that great when compared to the A-list heroes, B-list even.  He was not the guy from FF #52, but someone else. A character with so much potential, stuck in the background. He was still cool, but he was stuck there.

Captain America being Peak Human from the SSF makes sense for Steve Rogers; who was a sickly, geeky kid who became the pinnacle of human perfection for America during WW2, when he joined the SS program while trying to help America. But for Tíchalla it made no sense. Heís royalty and was not some sickly child. He was raised and trained from Birth. If Daredevil and so many others could attain peak human status or near it without any substance, while at the same time having feats that far out classed Tíchalla, understand that this is a huge factor in some comic fans not respecting the character at all. After Lee/Kirby/Donald McGregor and Before C. J Priest he (Tí challa) was totally stripped of all technology and was not a prep master, just a human acrobat in a cat suit that jumped around. The guy standing in the back ground of all the other Avengers. Priest received a lot of hate for returning Tíchalla to his roots, Tíchalla was the biggest bad ass in Marvel period, but other books did not honor it. Understand that this is the real reason why Mr. Hudlin gets a lot of flack, because he was having none of hat B.SÖhis run was a big F-u to all the haters out there of the character. He did it his wayÖand he was the first writer (Jason Aaron followed up nicely) that did not hold back with Tíchalla. While Priest explained everything, Mr. Hudlin didnít. Good or bad, I understood why. Spiderman does not explain, neither does Batman. Why should Tíchalla???  None of these characters are with limits, for example Wolverine. He does something above his level and its coolÖ.but Tíchalla always seems to have them.

Still the convoluted background of his powers linger.

Donald McGregor did a great job trying to explain and define the Heart Shape Herb so it would make sense.

"The poultice stimulated and accentuated the human being's kinesthetic sense. The kinesthetic sense is the subliminal perception that allows human beings to close their eyes, yet know where the different parts of their bodies are. If you didn't have this sense, you couldn't pick your nose or wash your hair if your eyes weren't open. The poultice, plus the stimuli of rigorous theological and physical training, heightened your kinesthetic sense. It heightens the proprioceptors (the proprioceptive system processes the orientation sense to the brain) and perceptions in your body. That is how you sense where a tree limb or a building edge is, know exactly where it is and never have a moment's doubt that your fingers will close about it...The sacred anointment poultice has a second effect on your muscles and ligaments, specifically on the joints where bones connect and swivel, mesh and respond. There are receptors in these joints called the Pacinian corpuscles that carry the signal to the brain to fulfill proper movement. Somehow the poultice is absorbed into those receptors and makes them especially sensitive...This is what enables you to twist and dodge with unparalleled grace."--- Donald McGregor - Panthers Prey



ďIn truth, he had been content with the knowledge that the religious rituals had even him a spiritual strength that has in turn enhanced his physical prowessĒ

McGregor accomplished separating the Heart Shape Herb from the Super Soldier formula, however when other writers dumbed down his explanation, it also made Tíchalla the Wakandan Captain America, only he was weaker (and Steve still had far better feats).  Gone was the spiritual strength to enhance his physical prowess, the HSH just turned him peak human, and he could jump around a lot. Priest followed McGregor, but by then what I just explained pretty much was negated.

Hudlin made Tíchalla a product of Royal Wakandan eugenics, but did not touch on the HSH much until the first arc of this volume. The eugenics and warrior training in this volume in my opinion has raised the character up, and giving him new life. Still the issue of the HSH turning someone peak human who should be able to attain peak human status without it is troubling.  Tíchalla and Shuri both should be peak human before they even take the herb. But then that leaves the herb only giving them superhumanly acute senses, which is why McGregorís explanation was always the best. Tíchallaís reflexes, the way he moves, twist and turns, the fact that he can jump and know where to put out his hand without even thinking about it are what the HSH should be about about. Peak Human Status should not even factor in at all.

Also the fact that BAST is granting the power also does not make sense. Why would the Panther god only give his/her top follower peak human ability? That does not make sense at all. This makes Tíchalla look weak in my opinion. Daredevil and many others become Peak human without it, so does Batman and all the other DC heroes in tandem with better feats.

So the upgrade is pretty awesome to me. 1 ton is great; he does not have to be as strong as Spiderman. Spider-Man is able to lift almost 10 tons at maximum effort.  The question is if Tíchallaís maximum effort is 1 ton versus 1 ton being his base strength (with his maximum effort falling short of Spiderman at about like 5 tons). That latter is the better upgrade. If his maximum effort strength is 1 ton then that is very disappointing. The better way would be to just state his base level, and not give a real limit to who far he can push himself, but make the limit that is decent like 4-5 tons but he could suffer structural damage to his body as the reason why he does not do this.

Like I said, 1 ton is great, but my focus though is on speed. Speed kills, and Tíchallaís speed should be on par with Spiderman. Most who have longed for an upgrade almost never site lifting power or his strength. Even if his max was 1 ton, his speed should be his best physical power.



One thing that does make me kind of weary is turning him into triathlon 2.0. Spider-Man's reflexes are some where around 15 to 18 times that of a normal human and them making Tíchalla being only 3 or 4 is just making him triathlon physically. I fear that is how it will be viewed.  It ready has by some.

When folks compare Tíchalla to another hero itís mostly DCís Batman. The comparison is from the right family. Tíchalla should be compared and more a long the lines of Cassandra Cain (former Batgirl). That is my new beating drum.  She is extremely popular for a reason. She is Ďpeak humaní but she performs what many think Tíchalla should be able to do. If T'challa had her feats he would be one of the most popular heroes at Marvel and yes A-list. So I will start posting them for debate.


Feats and good powers explaintion = closer to A- list.



Agree with everything said here. The herb making him peak human NEVER made sense to me either when he should have been peak human BEFORE he took the herb due to his genetic bloodline and training. Same with Shuri.
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Offline Seven

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Re: T'challa's Upgrades part III: FIRST STEPS TOWARD A-LIST
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2009, 08:24:34 am »
Yes, this is very common. Even Priest talked about it, and why he didn't want to write the character.
But when I debate and even talk to other comic readers, this is what I always find most striking. As a fan die hard fan of the character this has aways bothered me.

Offline Shade

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Re: T'challa's Upgrades part III: FIRST STEPS TOWARD A-LIST
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2009, 08:33:22 am »
Yes, this is very common. Even Priest talked about it, and why he didn't want to write the character.
But when I debate and even talk to other comic readers, this is what I always find most striking. As a fan die hard fan of the character this has aways bothered me.

I won't lie I love BP and read anything I can get my hands on with him in it but his powerset has always been boring to me. If he didn't have other stuff going for him like he does I would've passed by him. I almost did actually.
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Offline Wakandan561

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Re: T'challa's Upgrades part III: FIRST STEPS TOWARD A-LIST
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2009, 08:45:23 am »
I don't think his power set is boring, it's just it has not been utilized as much as it should, even with Shuri as the new Black Panther, you don't see much of her "Panther Abilities".
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Offline Seven

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Re: T'challa's Upgrades part III: FIRST STEPS TOWARD A-LIST
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2009, 09:01:33 am »
Wakandan as explained above it really does not make much sense. I not saying boring, it just does not make sense. But Priest did say the thought his powers were boring, and that is very commonly heard. So Shady is not the only one.

There are characters with Peak Human ability, that don't need anything like a herb to get there. While Marvel says that Panther is on Par with Steve Rogers, his feats are no where near them. Then factor in the fact that even if they are, you get the reaction that Hudlin got. For example, T'challa moving to fast and then throwing Wolverine. But T'challa's feats are not on par. They are not consistant, and folks don't really know his powerset. Some say near/low superhuman, other Peakhuman, etc..etc...this hurts him.

I'm one of the biggerst Black Panther fans. I'm a hugger, even. I admit this. But Daredevil has better feats, Batman has better feats, Batgirl-Cass has better feats, Ironfist has better feats. I can go on and on. We are told how awesome T'challa is but we rearly see it. Then factor in his confusing  and non logical explaination for powers and you have folk being turned off, or readers flat out making every excuses to why he should not be able to do something (limitations), disrepsect of the character and the different double standards that are too many to list right now. These things are part (not all) of why he isn't A-list.

For example, when watching that Panther's Prey episode of Ironman Armored Adventures was great to me because T'challa was doing some amazing things. Dodging Tony attacks, keeping up with A.I.M air craft running, Jumping from building to building with no web  ;D those was awesome feats. Every person I know thought that was awesome. Another example is Jason Aaron's SI arc. That's what's need to get to A-list.



« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 11:25:19 am by Seven »

Offline moneyspider

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Re: T'challa's Upgrades part III: FIRST STEPS TOWARD A-LIST
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2009, 09:13:08 am »
What I don't really understand is...why can Spider-Man, who has the powers of a spider, lift 10 tons, but Panther, who has the power of a cat/panther, can only lift 1 ton, even with the upgrade?

Even if it is based on that "proportionate strength of the animal" thing, shouldn't that technically make Panther stronger than Spider-Man?

Shouldn't Panther be able to lift more than 1 ton, since cats are much stronger than spiders?

Or does Spider-Man's radioactive blood have something to do with his 10-ton strength level?