Author Topic: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.  (Read 35395 times)

Offline Vic Vega

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Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« on: February 19, 2010, 07:21:31 am »
What do you guys make of THIS?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35475336/ns/us_news-life/#storyContinued

How oppressed can you BE if you have your own airplane?

I am waiting for the media to call THIS guy a terrorist. He fits the definition of one.

Somehow I think I’m going to be waiting a long while....

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2010, 07:38:57 am »
Second on all that.

Offline Catch22

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Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 07:49:07 am »
Consider it thirded!

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2010, 08:06:41 am »
I was just going to post this but Vic is on the job.
Agree with all your points. The first thing I thought was, "Isn't this domestic terrorism?" Still waiting...
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2010, 09:54:20 am »
Is fourthed a word? ROFL If i hear someone say "he is defending his American right for free speech" one more time
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 03:49:38 pm by akumatrunigga »
With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.

Offline Battle

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Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2010, 10:17:12 am »
How 'bout the fifth? ;D

It was bound to happen. Just check out the FOX radio circuit, for instance...  The nutcases are still so scorned about the '08 presidential election that they forgot to go back to thier miserable lives.
When you allow these phoney-ass, big mouth,  political cronies 'talk show' types to spew so much hate on the air towards our current president and his administration  to millions and millions of losers...   couple that nonsense with the tea party rallying and th' incessant bitchin' and complaining, you're eventually gonna get someone emotionally and mentally unstable enough to take desperate measures on... someone!  ...or something! :(

It's terrorism, plain and simple.
Right now fat-ass, limburger is on the radio trying to avert the accusations as fast as he can inhale pork chops.

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2010, 11:26:47 am »
@ Think Progress:

Quote
Today a man flew a plane into a Texas federal building in an apparent domestic terrorist attack. The suicide bomber, identified as Joseph Andrew Stack, was allegedly a right wing extremist who wrote on a website that violence “is the only answer” and expressed anger at the IRS, the federal government, and health care reform.

Newly-minted Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA) appeared on Fox’s Neil Cavuto and showed none of the outrage and concern about terrorism that he exuded during his Senate election campaign. Asked for his reaction, Brown said he felt for the families, but quickly shrugged off the attack and transitioned to say that “people are frustrated” and “no one likes paying taxes.”


http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/18/scott-brown-terrorism-yawn/

Way to keep perspective guy.

Offline Battle

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Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2010, 12:39:14 pm »
Que sera sera

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2010, 02:47:19 pm »
@ Think Progress:

Quote
Today a man flew a plane into a Texas federal building in an apparent domestic terrorist attack. The suicide bomber, identified as Joseph Andrew Stack, was allegedly a right wing extremist who wrote on a website that violence “is the only answer” and expressed anger at the IRS, the federal government, and health care reform.

Newly-minted Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA) appeared on Fox’s Neil Cavuto and showed none of the outrage and concern about terrorism that he exuded during his Senate election campaign. Asked for his reaction, Brown said he felt for the families, but quickly shrugged off the attack and transitioned to say that “people are frustrated” and “no one likes paying taxes.”


http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/18/scott-brown-terrorism-yawn/

Way to keep perspective guy.


Some one should ask him how he would feel about someone flying a plane into his workplace.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2010, 05:29:55 am »
Is it terrorism? I can see it and then again, not all evil acts are terrorism.  It seems to me that the point of terrorism is to instill fear, to fight a "war", etc.  There is a big picture involved.  This guys motive was more "F-you!!!". He seems closer to the guy last Dec who in St. Louis walked into his place of buisness and started shooting his co-workers because his company screwed with their pensions or something like that.  People don't call that terrorism.  But then again, how different was he from a one time "unabomber"? 

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2010, 09:33:55 am »
The problem is if it wasnt for the note nor knowing the identity of the fellow it would have became a terrorist act from the arab community.
With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.

Offline Hypestyle

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Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2010, 05:31:05 pm »
all too bad that some people were hurt and another was killed by this rampage..
hmm.. if the perpetrator survived, would folks consider it an "outrage" for him to be arrested and read the Miranda?
Be Kind to Someone Today.

michaelintp

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Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2010, 10:54:05 pm »
Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA) in the interview above seemed to be reacting to the quick association between the Austin airplane bomber, Joseph Stack, and Conservatives (including the Tea Party Protesters) who are opposed to excessive taxation.  And he is correct that to associate the two is grossly unfair.

In response to your speculations, above, your waiting is over: An article from the Wall Street Journal (in part provided below) states, "...the incident meets the definition of terrorism: a politically motivated attack on civilians."

Of course Stack engaged in a domestic terrorist act (blowing up a building with his airplane in a suicide attack to make a “political” statement).  But rather than playing word games, people are more interested in the substance (as in the case with other recent cases of domestic terrorist acts). 

The key questions, in this regard, are:

1.  Was he acting alone?  Or was his action coordinated in any way with others?

2.  From what ideology did he gain his inspiration?  Was he in regular, rare, or any contact with proponents of this ideology? (If his acts were in fact inspired by any coherent ideology, rather than motivated out of some personal rage against the IRS).

3.  Was he active in any movement that advocates violence against the United States Government or its citizens?  In the past, did he openly express sympathy for those who engage in such violence?

4.  Were there any warning signs, in terms of what he communicated to co-workers, friends or family?  In terms of what he previously posted on his websites? 

5.  Could anything have been done to prevent his murderous act?

My understanding is that Stack acted alone, without coordination, without prior open suggestion that he would engage in such an act.  He penned a muddled manifesto that was as much Leftist as Rightist (causing some of the Right to characterize him as a radical Leftist, though that too is unfair).  In truth, his "thinking" reflected a more personal insanity and rage than a coherent ideology   I’ve not heard of any past meaningful activism on his part.  It is doubtful that with such persons, with no warning signs and no conspiratorial contacts, that much can be done to prevent such incidents in the future.  In some ways his act is similar to that of Fort Hood shooter, for example, but in some ways quite different (as in that case, issues of political correctness apparently induced the Army to not take proper measures in advance where there were clear warning signs; the guy should have been removed from his position as a Major long before he initiated his Fort Hood attack).

If more info has come to light that I’m unaware of, feel free to share.  But from what I’ve seen of this, it appears Stack was just nuts. 

Touching on some of these points, here is the article from the Wall Street Journal that addresses the issue of Media Bias -- the Media's immediate jumping to conclusions to serve a liberal/left ideological end to negatively stigmatize those who legitimately dissent against the policies of the current Administration:

Pot Calls Kettle Stack
The Austin attack and the media's stereotypes.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703787304575075610490995030.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_MIDDLETopOpinion
By JAMES TARANTO

"A software engineer with an anti-government grudge crashed his single-engine plane into an office building that housed nearly 200 Internal Revenue Service employees," FoxNews.com reports. Joseph Stack, 53, killed one IRS man, 67-year-old Vernon Hunter, along with himself.

Inevitably a debate has arisen over whether the attack was an act of terrorism. Fox notes that Art Acevado, police chief of Austin, Texas, where the attack occurred, "labeled the incident a single act by a lone individual and refused to classify it as terrorism":

But at least one lawmaker, U.S. Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Texas, disagreed and compared the incident to the 1995 bombing that killed 168 people in the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

The White House dodged the question:
Press Secretary Robert Gibbs told reporters aboard Air Force One that White House officials will let an investigation "play out" before determining how to label the incident. He had earlier said that the incident did not appear to be terrorism, and when asked specifically if domestic terrorism was a possibility, he said he did not suspect ''somebody like an Al Qaeda.''

Arguing that it was terrorism was the Council on American-Islamic Relations, which issued a press release:
[CAIR] called the apparent airborne suicide attack on an Internal Revenue Service (IRS) office in Austin, Texas, an act of "terror."

"Before taking off in the light plane that he allegedly used to attack the IRS office, Joseph A. Stack reportedly set fire to his own home and posted an anti-government screed on the Internet that was signed "Joe Stack (1956-2010)." . . .
"Whenever an individual or group attacks civilians in order to make a political statement, that is an act of terror," said CAIR National Executive Director Nihad Awad. "Terrorism is terrorism, regardless of the faith, race or ethnicity of the perpetrator or the victims. We pray for the speedy recovery of those injured in the attack." . . ."

Awad noted that if a Muslim had carried out the IRS attack, it would have surely been labeled an act of terrorism.

That's odd. Why would CAIR think a Muslim would do something like this? The question is facetious, of course: CAIR is understandably defensive about the stereotyping of Muslims as terrorists, or terrorists as Muslims. Such stereotyping is also understandable, since the last time terrorists flew planes into buildings, they were Muslims who claimed a religious motive. One can hardly fault CAIR for pointing out that the Stack attack runs counter to the stereotype, although expressly citing the stereotype in the process undercuts the message.

In any case, CAIR is right that the incident meets the definition of terrorism: a politically motivated attack on civilians.

When people say it wasn't terrorism, what they probably mean to say is that it wasn't an act of organized terrorism or war. Had the attacker been Muslim and left a screed against "infidels," it would have been reasonable to suspect that he was part of al Qaeda or some other enemy group, or at least that he was influenced by its ideology. That he was apparently a lone nut instead is a great relief not only to CAIR but to anyone who worries about attacks by America's enemies.

Some in the media were quick to engage in stereotyping--but not against Muslims:

Jonathan Capeheart of the Washington Post wrote: "After reading [Stack's] 34-paragraph screed, I am struck by how his alienation is similar to that we're hearing from the extreme elements of the Tea Party movement." Chris Rovzar of New York magazine added: "A lot of his rhetoric could have been taken directly from a handwritten sign at a tea party rally."  National Review's Steve Spruiell notes two other tea-party references that have since been edited out. Time magazine: "Toward the end of what appears to be his final note, Stack wrote, 'Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let's try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.' (See the making of the Tea Party movement.)" This one, from the New York Times, is especially clever: “In April 1990, a firebomb packed with a tea bag--a reference to the Boston Tea Party--and addressed to the I.R.S. was placed in the mail in Royal Oak, Mich. It exploded, injuring a postal worker.”

A look at the actual screed, however, shows that in many ways it runs counter to the stereotype of a right-wing nut. Yes, Stack's biggest grievance was against the IRS. But his complaint here is very specific and not ideological: He says he was adversely affected by the agency's enforcement of a tax-code provision titled "Treatment of Certain Technical Personnel."

He does, however, rail in more general terms against corporate "thugs and plunderers," "the joke that we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies," "the vulgar, corrupt Catholic church," and "the recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies"--left-wing bogeymen all. His closing line is:

“The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.”


When the more over-the-top tea partiers call Obama a communist, they do not mean it as a term of approbation.

Our purpose in pointing all this out is to dispel a stereotype, not to reinforce one, so let's be clear: Stack is in no way typical of left-wingers either. But the eagerness with which journalists rushed to link him with the tea-party movement suggests that they are invidiously biased against dissenters from the current U.S. government. That's a stereotype of the media that turns out to have a good deal of truth.

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2010, 10:59:44 pm »
A terrorist doesn't need to be connected to a group to be a terrorist.  He just needs to commit an act of terror, which this guy did.  We're in agreement there.

I don't look for crazies to be consistent, or even coherent in their arguments. 

Could one argue that the Tea Party is creating a violent atmosphere that encourages acts like this?  Hell yes.  They certainly aren't denouncing them. 

michaelintp

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Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2010, 11:22:55 pm »
A terrorist doesn't need to be connected to a group to be a terrorist.  He just needs to commit an act of terror, which this guy did.  We're in agreement there.

I don't look for crazies to be consistent, or even coherent in their arguments. 

Could one argue that the Tea Party is creating a violent atmosphere that encourages acts like this?  Hell yes.  They certainly aren't denouncing them. 

Reginald, one can argue anything one wishes.  But that doesn't take away from the fact that Americans have the right to protest and express dissent against the policies and acts of their government.  Sure, there are always some who feel that dissent is dangerous. Including people in positions of power (in the Government, in the Media, etc) who may be on the receiving end of those protests. 

Fortunately, we have a Constitution.

Of course if any persons are involved with groups that advocate violence against the United States Government or its citizens, those persons need to be monitored (whether they be on the Left or the Right) and prevented from engaging in acts of terrorism. But to broadly condemn dissent as creating a dangerous atmosphere, when you just happen to disagree with the views of those protesting, is ... itself ... dangerous in undermining the very foundation of our democratic society.

... and, putting aside the extreme fringes, I do think that this terrible bombing was generally denounced by both Republicans and Democrats.