Author Topic: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!  (Read 100700 times)

Offline Francisco

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #135 on: March 02, 2010, 06:11:17 pm »
Why should T'challa choose Storm over Wakanda?  Because he knows she expects it and told him so--she told him if the PG refused her as his queen, she expected him to give up Wakanda.

So the Panther God not approving the marriage and Doom taking over Wakanda and murdering thousands is the same thing??
Don't get fooled by the bombs that I get I'm still I'm still Saddam from Iraq.

Offline Rutog98

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #136 on: March 02, 2010, 06:16:06 pm »
Why should T'challa choose Storm over Wakanda?  Because he knows she expects it and told him so--she told him if the PG refused her as his queen, she expected him to give up Wakanda.

So the Panther God not approving the marriage and Doom taking over Wakanda and murdering thousands is the same thing??

You bring up an interesting point. T'challa knew that Doom was after the vibranium and he knew that one of the locks was something that only Storm could unlock. If Ororo had not been there, then Doom would have killed and kept killing to blackmail Storm into coming out and opening that lock. Hmmm...I still think T'challa should have taken the risk and saved Storm.
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Princesa

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #137 on: March 02, 2010, 06:47:56 pm »
On the Doomwar front. As to the cell, I took it as meant for Magneto (who T'Challa had run ins with in the Priest series )or any mutant and the guy was just trying to mess with her head. I didn't see it as all as being for her. I also didn't see him "abandoning" her. He might have felt that way but what did he do? he didn't have the fire power to get her out, which meant taking down Doom so he enlisted help from her family.Her family.  One thing that has always been stressed about T'Challa from Yost's Storm mini to this--T'Challa NEVER asks for help. That's how Storm knew Shadow King still had control of him, but he dropped all pride all pretense, he went hat in hand to HER family. That says all there needs to be said about how he feels for her.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 06:54:56 pm by Princesa »

Offline Rutog98

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #138 on: March 02, 2010, 07:34:57 pm »
On the Doomwar front. As to the cell, I took it as meant for Magneto (who T'Challa had run ins with in the Priest series )or any mutant and the guy was just trying to mess with her head. I didn't see it as all as being for her. I also didn't see him "abandoning" her. He might have felt that way but what did he do? he didn't have the fire power to get her out, which meant taking down Doom so he enlisted help from her family.Her family.  One thing that has always been stressed about T'Challa from Yost's Storm mini to this--T'Challa NEVER asks for help. That's how Storm knew Shadow King still had control of him, but he dropped all pride all pretense, he went hat in hand to HER family. That says all there needs to be said about how he feels for her.

Excellent points.
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline DJfunkyPuddle

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #139 on: March 02, 2010, 08:08:20 pm »
On the Doomwar front. As to the cell, I took it as meant for Magneto (who T'Challa had run ins with in the Priest series )or any mutant and the guy was just trying to mess with her head. I didn't see it as all as being for her. I also didn't see him "abandoning" her. He might have felt that way but what did he do? he didn't have the fire power to get her out, which meant taking down Doom so he enlisted help from her family.Her family.  One thing that has always been stressed about T'Challa from Yost's Storm mini to this--T'Challa NEVER asks for help. That's how Storm knew Shadow King still had control of him, but he dropped all pride all pretense, he went hat in hand to HER family. That says all there needs to be said about how he feels for her.

Excellent points.

I totally agree, I saw the cell as one for mutants/superhumans.  For choosing Wakanda over Storm, I think T'Challa's taking a very utilitarian approach (needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few).  Doom did say "...it won't matter who rules this country. It will be a wasteland of ash and charred bones."  Losing his wife sucks, but I've always seen T'Challa as the sum of his people and I don't think he'd ever recover from such devastation.

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #140 on: March 02, 2010, 09:17:28 pm »
That says all there needs to be said about how he feels for her.




(To be fair, that ALMOST flew.)

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #141 on: March 03, 2010, 02:45:07 am »
The only version of the Black Panther that wouldn't have sacrificed his wife would have been "happy pants Panther" and maybe McGregors classic nice guy Panther.

Every other version of the character has been a machavelian plotter to some degree. Even Reg's straight talking version didn't actually SAY he was going to abdicate the throne for her. He let that question hang. I don't think he knw what he would have done himself.

In story-wise Pricnesa make a good point as T'Challa could just have easily gone to his friends (The Avengers) who are probably scarier to a guy like Doom than the X-men are anyway (but on the other hand Steve would have had a problem with all the killing that is going to go on). Look at the azz-whipping Doom just got from Thor.

As far as the book goes the numbers are clear on one thing: Whenever this character is NOT in a crossover sales drop. Reg's arc started as a Dark Riegn X-over. Power stood on its own and got bad numbers. Back to Africa stood on its own too and got bad (but slightly better than Mayberry's) numbers also. 

Comics fans are art ho's: Reg got John Romita Jr. at the very beginning and after that no other name as big.

Priest buckdanced for fanboys for the entirety of his run and got numbers below 25K for 90% of his run as a reward. I am a fan of his but if anybody was a beneficary of editorial welfare it was Priest. Marvel would have been in thier rights to have killed his book after issue 20.

Mayberry had a no name artist and no tie ins and saw the same kinds of numbers that Priest did. So I want to see what kind of numbers Doomwar gets. Since he will have had both at that point.

If they do decide to relaunch the title they need to rename it Black Panther and Storm. That alone will net the book about 2-4K in orders it isn't getting now (the orders are done by retailers who short everything that isn't written by Bendis). Putting both thier names on the book will also allow marvel to justify putting a name artist on the thing for once(since its now an X-book by default). Put a guy like Alan Davis or Jae Lee on this book for a year and then look at the numbers.

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #142 on: March 03, 2010, 02:48:22 am »
Thanks VV,

In my previous post I had said that there was not a DR crossover. I forgot about the initial tie-in that launched the book. My apologies. I wish there had been another one with Shuri more directly involved.

Offline blkyoda

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #143 on: March 03, 2010, 09:10:02 am »
On the Doomwar front. As to the cell, I took it as meant for Magneto (who T'Challa had run ins with in the Priest series )or any mutant and the guy was just trying to mess with her head. I didn't see it as all as being for her. I also didn't see him "abandoning" her. He might have felt that way but what did he do? he didn't have the fire power to get her out, which meant taking down Doom so he enlisted help from her family.Her family.  One thing that has always been stressed about T'Challa from Yost's Storm mini to this--T'Challa NEVER asks for help. That's how Storm knew Shadow King still had control of him, but he dropped all pride all pretense, he went hat in hand to HER family. That says all there needs to be said about how he feels for her.

This is a non-issue. The entire royal family including T'Challa's wife are infected with machines that not only make them unknowing spies for Doom but could potentially be used to harm them as well. If he goes after Storm and lets her know what's up Doom may flip a switch and she dies, along with everyone else. It sounded nice to say he left Storm to the wolves for dramatic purposes but let's be real about this, he made the only sound decision you can make in that situation. Further, Cyclops does that ish* all the time, thinking of his 'people' before his wive(s) friends etc. Real Leaders have to make touch choices. That's what a KING does, and that's what any woman marrying a king would understand. It ain't all about them and their love, he's got a entire civilization to protect. Nuff said.

Offline blkyoda

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #144 on: March 03, 2010, 09:26:43 am »
I have no interest in gloating, or fanning the flames of conspiracy theories.


I'm picking up the slack for us both.  ;D But that's ONLY because I am truly joyful, not because I'm taking pleasure in others' misery.



But Obama following Bush? Bullsh*t. Obama is 1) qualified, and 2) has actually accomplished something during his short time in office. I'm sure Maberry is a perfectly competent writer - I'm not arguing otherwise - but he's out of his league here. As kitamu re said, what has he given to the Panther legacy? NANITES, that's what. Nanites and a punk bitch where a warrior king once stood. And the only reason why he's even been remotely accepted here is because of the pussification of the black American male. No self-respecting black man - and certainly not one who has any regard for women - would be caught dead reading this piece of sh*t.


Not to get overly political here but...

Bush f**ked up the country and the world for years by ignoring history and tradition, and making it clear that he played favorites and didn't care to make new friends. After 9-11, which was indirectly his fault depending on who you believe (and there are certain things I won't write even I DO believe them.) he had a chance to really unite the world towards a common purpose and get things done. Instead he blows it all on a fake war, tax cuts and screwing the poor.

Allegory:

The previous writer came in with new ideas but quickly gained a reputation for dissing fanboys and crapping on the established history of a well loved character.
Then the previous writer was given the marriage of the decade, literally, in Storm and T'Challa's marriage. All the hype and marketing was amazing. He had the chance to springboard this book to heights unseen in Panther's entire history. The wedding issue sold 63K the most of ANY black panther comic in HISTORY. And yet it was back down to 20K something 3 issues later.

Same story, just nobody had to die...but the allegory continues....

Obama follows Bush he's smart, he's capable but he's a little too committed to the system when the public is really calling for a radical change and a new direction. He hires alotta of the same people that Bush had, extends policies that Bush had and basically continues some of the things that everyone was unhappy with. Plus he's saddled with alotta mess that Bush MADE and left in his lap.  He's doing his best, he's doing OKAY - Not great but OKAY since he's only been in office for a year. I will withold judgment (but extending the patriot act for a year last week doesn't give me much optimism.)

Allegory:

Mayberry follows previous writer, he's okay, has some books under his belt but he's a LITTLE too committed to the previous regime. The previous writer's style wasn't working, the cast wasn't connecting with people and the sales were down. So what does he do? He picks the least developed least interesting character from the LAST regime and decides to dedicate the comic to HER? Just like Obama following Bush's lousy policies. By the time JM finally comes up with an interesting idea (I think Doomwar is actually rather interesting) it's too late. Comic is dead and he's just playing out the string. Could he have really turned it around, we'll never know. But he should've really gone in a different direction rather than trying to re-habilitate something that was moribund already. Hell Priest got 12 issues out of Casper Cole and that was a TERRIBLE idea. But he knew the book needed to go in another direction and FAST.

Maybe Obama will figure it out as well, Mayberry got cancelled after 12 issues, at least Obama has 4 years.


Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #145 on: March 03, 2010, 10:50:56 am »
The previous writer came in with new ideas but quickly gained a reputation for dissing fanboys and crapping on the established history of a well loved character.
Then the previous writer was given the marriage of the decade, literally, in Storm and T'Challa's marriage.
This is why I can't take you seriously. You seem to be the kind of hater that pretends to be objective but puts forth propaganda.
If you had just said that the previous writer created the marriage of the decade, I could just ignore your peculiar interpretation of the events. But apparently, your little narrative doesn't allow for any credit for anything for RH and you're too uncouth to voice your "criticism" here in his house with any semblance of respect.

« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 10:53:50 am by Curtis Metcalf »
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Offline blkyoda

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #146 on: March 03, 2010, 11:04:42 am »
The previous writer came in with new ideas but quickly gained a reputation for dissing fanboys and crapping on the established history of a well loved character.
Then the previous writer was given the marriage of the decade, literally, in Storm and T'Challa's marriage.
This is why I can't take you seriously. You seem to be the kind of hater that pretends to be objective but puts forth propaganda.
If you had just said that the previous writer created the marriage of the decade, I could just ignore your peculiar interpretation of the events. But apparently, your little narrative doesn't allow for any credit for anything for RH and you're too uncouth to voice your "criticism" here in his house with any semblance of respect.



Curt, grow up. It's over, the comic is being canceled. You don't like my post - mortem or eulogy then don't read it. The marriage wasn't created by the past writer, Priest had the idea of Storm and BP getting married in the previous volume but it didn't go through (which I'm happy about, I think his version of the marriage would've been depressing.) So it WAS given to him, and he did make it happen but he did not create it. Why don't you point your phone rightgeous indignation somewhere else, there are plenty of autoposies being done on this book find one that makes you happy and go away.

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #147 on: March 03, 2010, 11:12:52 am »
The previous writer came in with new ideas but quickly gained a reputation for dissing fanboys and crapping on the established history of a well loved character.
Then the previous writer was given the marriage of the decade, literally, in Storm and T'Challa's marriage.
This is why I can't take you seriously. You seem to be the kind of hater that pretends to be objective but puts forth propaganda.
If you had just said that the previous writer created the marriage of the decade, I could just ignore your peculiar interpretation of the events. But apparently, your little narrative doesn't allow for any credit for anything for RH and you're too uncouth to voice your "criticism" here in his house with any semblance of respect.



Curt, grow up. It's over, the comic is being canceled. You don't like my post - mortem or eulogy then don't read it. The marriage wasn't created by the past writer, Priest had the idea of Storm and BP getting married in the previous volume but it didn't go through (which I'm happy about, I think his version of the marriage would've been depressing.) So it WAS given to him, and he did make it happen but he did not create it. Why don't you point your phone rightgeous indignation somewhere else, there are plenty of autoposies being done on this book find one that makes you happy and go away.
Actually, I'm asking you to grow up. I am not talking about a comic book that I'm not reading but rather respecting my friend as a man, and acting like a man yourself. Maybe you genuinely don't get it; your behavior to date certainly supports that hypothesis.
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
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Offline blkyoda

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #148 on: March 03, 2010, 11:26:24 am »
The previous writer came in with new ideas but quickly gained a reputation for dissing fanboys and crapping on the established history of a well loved character.
Then the previous writer was given the marriage of the decade, literally, in Storm and T'Challa's marriage.
This is why I can't take you seriously. You seem to be the kind of hater that pretends to be objective but puts forth propaganda.
If you had just said that the previous writer created the marriage of the decade, I could just ignore your peculiar interpretation of the events. But apparently, your little narrative doesn't allow for any credit for anything for RH and you're too uncouth to voice your "criticism" here in his house with any semblance of respect.



Curt, grow up. It's over, the comic is being canceled. You don't like my post - mortem or eulogy then don't read it. The marriage wasn't created by the past writer, Priest had the idea of Storm and BP getting married in the previous volume but it didn't go through (which I'm happy about, I think his version of the marriage would've been depressing.) So it WAS given to him, and he did make it happen but he did not create it. Why don't you point your phone rightgeous indignation somewhere else, there are plenty of autoposies being done on this book find one that makes you happy and go away.
Actually, I'm asking you to grow up. I am not talking about a comic book that I'm not reading but rather respecting my friend as a man, and acting like a man yourself. Maybe you genuinely don't get it; your behavior to date certainly supports that hypothesis.

Read the comic, and have since day one. Bought every issue. I notice that you didn't address my post either. The Previous writer did not create the marriage of Storm and T'Challa. It was an old idea that he brought to fruition. But I forgot, you just wanna whine and b***h because you've got some wild hair up your a** about my view of how the comic has been written at times and whether I'm reading it. 

If you're all that bent out of shape then go after Jenn, she's gloating that the comic has been canceled, railing against anyone who liked it and is slamming a book she hasn't read since the new guy took over. Oh that's right you're selective about who you want to complain about because you'd rather play passive aggressive "I'm protecting my friend" games. You'd think that after 3 or 4 years of this you'd finally get over yourself and hang up your "protector of [author's] pride" uniform juuuuussssttt long enough to allow other people to grieve and bemoan the passing of the comic in their own way. You can ply all the 50 cent words and mock disdain that you want it won't mask the fact that you've been whelping like a spanked puppy after every comment I've made on this site for 4 freakin' years. When I was talking about poor sales numbers you whined that I was being a hater, when I was saying that the marriage needed to be capitalized on you belly ached like I took your lunch money. On and on you've been sniffing after me like I stole your girlfriend and sent you the pictures. You have neither shamed me into silence nor enlightened me into agreement with anything you've ever written. How about you split the difference and go after a real target. Or just go home and call the previous writer so you can gossip about how mean I am. Sheesh.

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Black Panther Cancelled??!!!
« Reply #149 on: March 03, 2010, 11:36:44 am »
On the Doomwar front. As to the cell, I took it as meant for Magneto (who T'Challa had run ins with in the Priest series )or any mutant and the guy was just trying to mess with her head. I didn't see it as all as being for her. I also didn't see him "abandoning" her. He might have felt that way but what did he do? he didn't have the fire power to get her out, which meant taking down Doom so he enlisted help from her family.Her family.  One thing that has always been stressed about T'Challa from Yost's Storm mini to this--T'Challa NEVER asks for help. That's how Storm knew Shadow King still had control of him, but he dropped all pride all pretense, he went hat in hand to HER family. That says all there needs to be said about how he feels for her.

Agree totally and glad you picked up the subtlety of Storm's jailor's strategy.  These are fictional characters so there is more than enough room for different interpretations but in further support of T'Challa's feelings for Storm I'd like to point out that he did in fact choose Storm over his obligation to Wakanda when rescued from death by her and confronted with the choice of leaving her to sub for him in noble sacrifice or fighting with her against the hordes of undead.  He refused to leave of course even at Storm's urging and Neither he nor Storm had any idea of Shuri and Ramonda's plot to exchange Morlun for them.

Peace,

Mont