Author Topic: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.  (Read 6129 times)

Offline Jay

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #75 on: April 19, 2010, 03:50:52 PM »
The body speaks

Öm4
"You're gonna go out, and look, for, a job. The word today is...'job'. Jay Oh Bee...y'hear me?"

michaelintp

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #76 on: April 19, 2010, 07:12:35 PM »
Who has been footing the bill for Europe's defense?  ;)
I wonder what percentage of GDP France commits to its national defense?  How about Germany? How about Canada, for that matter?


That is a red herring. The point is we pay more per capita and as a percentage of GDP for health care than all of those countries for fair to middling results.


Exploding Entitlement Programs precipitating the implosion of America’s global power? Red Herring? Curtis, your comments prompted me to do a little Google search, and look what I came up with.  An article right on point:

ObamaCare and American Power
The lesson of Europe is that the U.S. can't fund a health entitlement and maintain superpower status.

The Wall Street Journal
Thursday, March 25, 2010
By MAX BOOT

A lot has been written about the impact of ObamaCare on health care and the economy. I am worried about its impact on our global power.

The United States currently spends roughly as much on defense ($661 billion in fiscal year 2009) as the rest of the world combined. But that's a pittance compared to what we spend on three major entitlement programs—Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Combined, they cost $1.38 trillion or almost 35% of the budget, compared with 17% for defense. And entitlements will only grow dramatically. The current unfunded liability for Social Security and Medicare, according to the 2009 Social Security and Medicare Trustees Report, is nearly $107 trillion—seven times the size of our economy.

It's hard to remember now, but there was a time when the federal government spent most of its money on the armed forces. In 1962, the total federal budget was $106 billion of which $52 billion—almost half—went for defense. It wasn't until 1976 that entitlement spending exceeded defense spending. Since then the totals have been getting more lopsided—more for social programs, less, in relative terms, for defense.

In 1935, Franklin Roosevelt assured the public that the new Social Security system would not lead to runaway spending. In 1965, Lyndon Johnson pledged that the fiscal impact of Medicare would be minimal. And now Barack Obama cites a Congressional Budget Office estimate claiming that the vast new health-care entitlement will actually reduce the deficit.

Count me as skeptical. Odds are great that the cost-containment provisions will never be rigorously implemented while the promised subsidies will prove more costly than projected.

In other words, ObamaCare will likely continue the trend already evident during the first year of the administration—when, thanks to the bank bailout and stimulus bill, federal spending as a share of GDP soared to 24.7%, unprecedented in peacetime. If you add in state and local spending, the government as a whole consumes 37.5% of GDP, up from 34.7% in 2008. Prepare for those figures to climb further as government takes on new health-care obligations.

To consider the implications for defense, look at Europe. Last year government spending in the 27 European Union nations hit 52% of GDP. But most of them struggle to devote even 2% of GDP to defense, compared to more than 4% in the U.S.

When Europeans after World War II chose to skimp on defense and spend lavishly on social welfare, they abdicated their claims to great power status. That worked out well for them because their security was subsidized by the U.S.

But what happens if the U.S. switches spending from defense to social welfare? Who will protect what used to be known as the "Free World"? Who will police the sea lanes, stop the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, combat terrorism, respond to genocide and other unconscionable human rights violations, and deter rogue states from aggression? Those are all responsibilities currently performed by America. But it will be increasingly hard to be globocop and nanny state at the same time. Something will have to give.

President Obama's budget projects that "core" defense spending (excluding supplemental appropriations for wars) will fall as a percentage of GDP to 3% in 2019 from 3.9% in 2010. Assuming the economy keeps growing, that will still deliver more defense spending in absolute terms—but economic growth may well be endangered by the higher taxes needed to fund ObamaCare. Even if defense spending stays steady, it will be increasingly hard to replace aging weapons systems such as Bradley Fighting Vehicles, Abrams tanks and Black Hawk helicopters, which were purchased during the Reagan defense buildup.

The Air Force, which is responsible for maintaining air and space superiority—a sine que non of American power—faces a particularly big budget crunch. Its aircraft are aging and need to be replaced (KC-135 tankers and B-52 bombers are more than 40 years old), but each new plane is much costlier than its predecessor.

The Navy faces a similar problem. It now has only 283 ships—the smallest number since 1916. Granted, each of those vessels is much more capable than earlier models. But at some point quality cannot substitute for a crippling lack of quantity.

The crunch will not come anytime soon. The U.S. will remain strong for years to come. But if we are looking at major threats to our global standing, we should not look at China, Iran or Russia. We have met the enemy and he is us—specifically, our insatiable demand for entitlement spending, which ObamaCare will only exacerbate.

Mr. Boot is a senior fellow in National Security Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations and author most recently of "War Made New: Technology, Warfare, and the Course of History, 1500 to Today" (Gotham, 2006).


Offline Jay

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #77 on: April 19, 2010, 08:30:24 PM »
Micheal why do WE need to police the world? Just let: France and Switzerland do it ;)

You know what's going to keep America safe in the 21st century. Not aircrafts and guns but good intelligence work and stop Al-Queda before they strike us. We don't need superior aircrafts and tanks. We need smart guys in the C.I.A who can figure out what the terrorists are planning before they do it.  That's how we're going to keep our borders safe.
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michaelintp

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #78 on: April 20, 2010, 07:07:15 AM »
Above, jokingly, people commented as to whether I am getting tired arguing with Democrats about health care. That's not really my motivation (health care is not even even one of my "main" issues - geopolitics are more important to me in this era).  So why do I do this?  One fundamental reason:

To stop the hate.

If all one does is listen to folk who demonize those they disagree with, and talk with people who just reinforce one's point of view, one will never come to appreciate that while we may disagree, those we disagree with do have reasons for holding the positions they hold.  Often those reasons are not in the slightest bit ill-motivated.  Those one disagrees with might even be well-motivated (shock of shocks!).

So it does get my back up with confronted with disparaging comments, and expressions of outright hatred, directed against Conservatives, or Republicans, or Tea Party Protesters, when there are in fact numerous reasons why they take the positions they take, and why they object to the policies of the Administration. You may not agree with them, or with me, but I've tried to share with you a number of reasons why a reasonable person has grounds for concern, and chooses to strongly express that concern. 

My reaction is the same when confronted with anti-religious bigotry expoused by some smug secularists, who mock and vilify devoutly religious people. My reaction is the same on several other fronts as well.

And for those many of you who don't "hate" folks you disagree with, and who do regularly engage in dialogue with people you disagree with, at times it is just fun to hear a different point of view, and to force yourself to test your own thinking, and to find out why others hold different points of view. For me, this is really an interesting aspect to all this.

I understand full well that those of you who support the Administration's expansion of entitlement programs are not evil people, not fools, not ill-motivated.  Maybe a little shortsighted (hahaha), but what the heck. ;) Really, though, often the premises we start from are very different, as are our values, our view of what constitute fundamental rights, and our predictions of outcomes.

OK, anyway, that's all I have to say on that point.   

On the "haves or have nots" point, I've discussed this on the forum before, and won't repeat myself other than to say that I was definitely not one of the "haves" growing up. Nor was my wife. We just studied hard and worked hard. 

Jay, as to your idea that if what I am predicting proves to be true we can turn the clock back and undo it ... no, by then it will be too late.  Too many people will be further dependent on the State, and less reliant on themselves.  If we get to that point, of America becoming a second-rate militarily-impotent isolationist nation with a miserable economy and mountains of debt, populated by the psychologically self-absorbed, that truly will herald the decline of what was once a great nation. We will be in no position to fight those who threaten us, who will include not only terrorist cells but major nation states (some of whom support those terrorists) that will flex their muscles everywhere they can, to expand their spheres of influence, economically, militarily, and ideologically. And this world will be a far far worse place for it.

michaelintp

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #79 on: April 20, 2010, 07:41:37 AM »
A couple of observations:
It seems to me that the NY Times Tea Party poll I referenced earlier indicates that the Tea Party is pretty synonymous with the right-wing of the Republican party. The whole Tea Party thing has been a rather effective public relations campaign.

Absolutely...
Last Thursday, there was a tea party rally in Columbia, South Carolina and guess who showed up to protest?  
"The rally---smaller than last year's crowd, estimated at 4,000 --- had colorful signs and costumes.  Some waived the S.C. Sovereignty Flag, a symbol of the state's 1860 secession from the Union.  "Save our State Self Rule for S.C."  read one sign.  Another warned of the "Commie Red Tax Monster."
O'Connor, John, The State, Friday, April 16th, 2010:page A1, A8

Confederate sympathizers, that's who!!!  You don't get anymore right-wing republican than that.


I'm not from the South, and have no positive associations with the Confederate flag. To try to get into the mind of white folk from the South who do not see the Confederate flag as being on the same league as the swastika, they must re-frame the Civil War in their minds to convince themselves that it was all about State's Rights.  Nevermind that in the early to mid-19th Century the States' disagreement with each other, and with the Federal Government, wholly centered around the institution of slavery.  To me, this seems to be an example of folk who want to admire their ancestors and history, and kinda kid themselves to do so. Beyond the obvious symbolism, which I don't like, what troubles me is that the guys who brought those flags are shooting themselves in the foot. Have any of you spoken with Southerners on this topic of the Confederate Flag, the Civil War, and so on.  I mean, other than the outright racists (who I have no tolerance for) what do the folks say who acknowledge that slavery was a horrible violation of the rights of the individual, but who still cling to Confederate images. Do they just dance around slavery, minimizing the slavery part as some "small part" of some broader historical context?  Do they just focus on the legalistic arguments surrounding whether succession was justified (the voluntary compact stuff)? 

Using such images taints the legitimate view that the domestic size of the Federal Government (and for that matter, of the State Governments) should be limited, because the Individual, not the State, should be viewed as paramount. And that our nation should not be bankrupted, as we are in truth a powerful force for good in the world.

I imagine most folks at the rally were not waving those flags. In fact, I wonder who brought those flags?

I much prefer the "Don't Tread of Me" flag.  

I don't like Commies, though.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 08:13:38 AM by michaelintp »

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #80 on: April 20, 2010, 09:52:57 AM »
I don't care what they think.  They clearly don't THINK very well.  Confederate flag = Nazi flag.  You know it, Mike. 

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #81 on: April 20, 2010, 10:28:31 AM »
Who has been footing the bill for Europe's defense?  ;)
I wonder what percentage of GDP France commits to its national defense?  How about Germany? How about Canada, for that matter?


That is a red herring. The point is we pay more per capita and as a percentage of GDP for health care than all of those countries for fair to middling results.


Exploding Entitlement Programs precipitating the implosion of America’s global power? Red Herring? Curtis, your comments prompted me to do a little Google search, and look what I came up with.  An article right on point:


When I said "This is a red herring" I was referring to your bringing up defense spending in the context of the health spending of other industrialized nations. As I pointed out, those nations achieve comparable health care results while spending significantly less per capita than we do. That is what we need to do as well. The health care reform law passed by Congress is what was politically feasible. It is a moderate law that is a necessary but not sufficient step towards the overall reform needed. In general, government programs are good at providing universal coverage and competitive markets are good are driving down costs. Our system was/is a feathered fish doing neither.

In the context of the broader deficit and debt issues, sure that's relevant. I see now that's probably what you meant. Of course there are structural issues that need to be addressed. They have been a long time in the making. All of this hullaballoo about it now suggests a partisan interest to me.
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Offline moor

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #82 on: April 20, 2010, 11:05:19 AM »
Who has been footing the bill for Europe's defense?  ;)
I wonder what percentage of GDP France commits to its national defense?  How about Germany? How about Canada, for that matter?


That is a red herring. The point is we pay more per capita and as a percentage of GDP for health care than all of those countries for fair to middling results.


Exploding Entitlement Programs precipitating the implosion of America’s global power? Red Herring? Curtis, your comments prompted me to do a little Google search, and look what I came up with.  An article right on point:


When I said "This is a red herring" I was referring to your bringing up defense spending in the context of the health spending of other industrialized nations. As I pointed out, those nations achieve comparable health care results while spending significantly less per capita than we do. That is what we need to do as well. The health care reform law passed by Congress is what was politically feasible. It is a moderate law that is a necessary but not sufficient step towards the overall reform needed. In general, government programs are good at providing universal coverage and competitive markets are good are driving down costs. Our system was/is a feathered fish doing neither.

In the context of the broader deficit and debt issues, sure that's relevant. I see now that's probably what you meant. Of course there are structural issues that need to be addressed. They have been a long time in the making. All of this hullaballoo about it now suggests a partisan interest to me.


I would humbly point out that no law exists stating that these two principles are mutually exclusive.  ;)  You can do both efficiently and effectively, and just as michaelintp suggests, while avoiding anything more than minimal intrusion into the province of personal protections and freedoms enjoyed by the citizens.

Offline Jay

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #83 on: April 20, 2010, 12:34:43 PM »
Above, jokingly, people commented as to whether I am getting tired arguing with Democrats about health care. That's not really my motivation (health care is not even even one of my "main" issues - geopolitics are more important to me in this era).  So why do I do this?  One fundamental reason:

To stop the hate.



Gasp! I don't hate republicans. I think they maybe nervously attached to their guns alittle too much hehe but that's about it.


Jay, as to your idea that if what I am predicting proves to be true we can turn the clock back and undo it ... no, by then it will be too late.  Too many people will be further dependent on the State, and less reliant on themselves.  If we get to that point, of America becoming a second-rate militarily-impotent isolationist nation with a miserable economy and mountains of debt, populated by the psychologically self-absorbed, that truly will herald the decline of what was once a great nation. We will be in no position to fight those who threaten us, who will include not only terrorist cells but major nation states (some of whom support those terrorists) that will flex their muscles everywhere they can, to expand their spheres of influence, economically, militarily, and ideologically. And this world will be a far far worse place for it.


Actually Micheal we may have already gotten to that point and it has nothing to do with the state but everything to do with Mommy and Daddy. You ever watch sweet 16? We're rasising these kids to become too dependent on someone or something.

But I don't want us to become too self-reliant on the state. I want the state to help a man when he's down.

Lets look at how things are now.

Millions of people out of work and despartely looking for a job. (This was me until a few months ago) but lets focus on people (The out of work indiviual) in general.

Now they have to rely on the state to give them an unemployment check. But at the same time a lot of people hate getting an unemployment check they want to work. Or maybe the government is about to cut off unemployment benefits and they are afraid they won't get a job in time and you just spend your nights worrying about what to do next.

And here's the kicker. H.R doesn't give a damn that you NEED A JOB NOW!
Not later, not two months from now but NOW NOW.
And to add insult to injury the government just gave a whole bunch of 'stimulus' money to these coporations so they can keep there jobs when they were suppose to loan it back to the people.

Now I see only two options.

1) We go down there and demand our money at gunpoint

or
2) we regulate those industry so they don't stuff like that again and at the same time we get those coporate lobyyists out of Washington.

But we need government control over those business and the best way to do that is get those loybbists and make it so they can't fund senators and congressmen.

Once you get that out of the way, we need a living wage. We can at least do that much for our citizens. Heck, Great Britian does that much for it's citizens and they're not even a super power.

Now one of the problems with a living wage is that this might put more people out of work because employeers would have to pay there lower workers more. Or or maybe they take a pay cut. I understand there are execs that work hard for there money but what about the ones that don't. What about execs that just sit goes to a meeting everyonce in awhile and still collect a fat check?

Aren't there people at AIG that has lost millions of dollars and then asked for like a thousad dollar bonus to do God-knows what?

http://www.mytwodollars.com/2008/10/17/aig-execs-caught-wasting-even-more-of-our-money-after-bailout/

Surely you can pay more money to it's people so they can be better off. But that would be putting a cap on how much people could potentially earn so people at the bottom can have more.

And finally, Universal Health Care. Hows about this. Private vs Public Health Care faciliaties. Curtis is right. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. In fact, Great Britian has both private and public faciliaties.

And this actually works to your benefit too. With a Public Option in place this give the private industries something to compete for. There's now a competition or a Market in place now to provide a better service. How we going to steal these Americans away from the 'public' option.

I don't want to see people become too dependent either but I think the government should be doing more for it's people and as to defense. Why not let the other members of NATO do it? Serisously who elected us the WORLD POLICE?!
"You're gonna go out, and look, for, a job. The word today is...'job'. Jay Oh Bee...y'hear me?"

michaelintp

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #84 on: April 20, 2010, 07:05:49 PM »
Given the disparaging stereotypes heaved (as in vomited) upon Tea Party Protesters, some of you might be interested in the following, which appears to be a far more even-handed portrait of Tea Party Protests than the picture painted by Leftist ideologues who scour images to find something, anything, that might be exploited as offensive or racist. 

The real story, portrayed below, comports with my son’s experience at the Tea Party Protest in Los Angeles (photos shared above).  It is worth noting that this overview is from the CNN Political Producer who has been covering Tea Party Rallies throughout the country.  He happens to be African-American.  He is not a Tea Partier.

All I’m asking for is fairness here.  Probably a wistful thought in this political climate.

CNN salutes the 'colorful smiles' of the tea parties
Washington Post
David Weigel
April 7, 2010

CNN's decision to embed with the Tea Party Express as it traveled toward D.C. -- Fox News did the same thing last year, in the run-up to the Sept. 12 taxpayer march on Washington -- befuddled the right and left alike. Mediaite's Tommy Christopher speculated that the network was out for "nuggets of gold," video and photos of tea partyers waving racist signs.

That's not how CNN's Shannon Travis describes his embed experience.

[H]ere's what you don't often see in the coverage of Tea Party rallies: Patriotic signs professing a love for country; mothers and fathers with their children; African-Americans proudly participating; and senior citizens bopping to a hip-hop rapper. ... It is important to show the colorful anger Americans might have against elected leaders and Washington. But people should also see the orange-vested Tea Party hospitality handlers who welcome you with colorful smiles.

There were a few signs that could be seen as offensive to African-Americans. But by and large, no one I spoke with or I heard from on stage said anything that was approaching racist.

Almost everyone I met was welcoming to this African-American television news producer.

It's been almost a year since CNN's Susan Roesgen became tea party public enemy No. 1 for a combative segment she filmed at an event in Chicago. This is how coverage of the tea party has evolved.

Here is the article referenced above (bolding added):

Reporter's notebook: What really happens at Tea Party rallies
By Shannon Travis, CNN Political Producer
April 7, 2010 4:08 p.m. EDT

(CNN) – When it comes to the Tea Party movement, the stereotypes don't tell the whole story.

Here's what you often see in the coverage of Tea Party rallies: offensive posters blasting President Obama and Democratic leaders; racist rhetoric spewed from what seems to be a largely white, male audience; and angry protesters rallying around the Constitution.

Case in point: During the health care debate last month, opponents shouted racial slurs at civil rights icon Georgia Rep. John Lewis and one person spit on Missouri Rep. Emanuel Cleaver. The incidents made national headlines, and they provided Tea Party opponents with fodder to question the movement.

But here's what you don't often see in the coverage of Tea Party rallies: Patriotic signs professing a love for country; mothers and fathers with their children; African-Americans proudly participating; and senior citizens bopping to a hip-hop rapper.

Last week, I saw all of this during a five-city Western swing as the Tea Party Express national tour made its way across the country. CNN was along for the ride, and I was charged with planning CNN's coverage for five stops in two states: St. George, Provo and Salt Lake City, Utah; and Grand Junction and Denver, Colorado.

This latest Tea Party caravan kicked off on March 27 in Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's hometown of Searchlight, Nevada. It is scheduled to make 45 stops before rolling into Washington on April 15, not so coincidentally on "Tax Day."

CNN was the only national news outlet on this Western leg of the tour. We had a full team on the ground: myself, correspondent Ed Lavandera, producers Tracy Sabo and Jim Spellman and the crew of the CNN Express bus. For Spellman, it was his third Tea Party Express tour.

Together, we beamed out images of the anger and the optimism, profiled African-Americans who are proud to be in the Tea Party's minority and showed activists stirred by "God Bless America" or amused by a young rapper who strung together rhymes against the president and Democrats.

The CNN Express traveled with the Tea Party Express buses for hundreds of miles, from rally to rally to rally.

Being at a Tea Party rally is not quite like seeing it on TV, in newspapers or online. That's the reason CNN is covering this political movement -- and doing so in ways few others can or choose to do.

It is important to show the colorful anger Americans might have against elected leaders and Washington. But people should also see the orange-vested Tea Party hospitality handlers who welcome you with colorful smiles.

There were a few signs that could be seen as offensive to African-Americans. But by and large, no one I spoke with or I heard from on stage said anything that was approaching racist.

Almost everyone I met was welcoming to this African-American television news producer.


And though speakers railed against the "lame-stream media," activists and their leaders praised CNN, especially for being the only national media outlet riding along for the post-weekend stops. Some of them e-mailed me after my trip, thanking our crew for fairly giving them a voice.

Speaking of stereotypes, I did get a few curious stares as I pulled up to the rallies. But not because of my skin color. It was because of my car rental: a Volvo.

I hadn't intended to rent a Volvo, a car stereotyped as the favorite of liberal elites. But upon arriving at the Las Vegas airport, the rental company was out of American-made cars with a GPS system and satellite radio. I had nearly a thousand miles of driving ahead, through desert, mountains and cities. Since it had GPS and satellite radio, the Volvo fit the bill.

Outside of the occasional stare, none of the real cowboys at the rallies came up to the Volvo and asked me, "Hey buddy -- where's your cashmere sweater and arugula?" If they had, I might have pointed out that until just recently, Volvo was owned by Ford Motor Co., an American icon.

Jokes aside, stereotypes can loom large when they're magnified through a television lens, on the radio, the pages of a newspaper or in the vastness of the Internet.

So, it's important that with a newsworthy, growing phenomenon like the Tea Party movement, viewers and readers fully understand what they see and what they don't.


Offline Battle

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #85 on: April 21, 2010, 10:04:54 AM »

Introducing the State capital of South Carolina...Columbia's first African-American Mayor
We Made History!
Columbia, South Carolina - Benjamin, an attorney, defeated District 4 Councilman Kirkman Finlay, whose campaign was built around his warning that the city’s budget was in crisis and that the only way to save it was to shrink local government to a more manageable size.

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/04/21/1389365/city-chooses-benjamin-we-made.html#ixzz0lkrpiIuy
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/04/21/1389365/city-chooses-benjamin-we-made.html

---------------------------------------------------



So, Mike... a promise of 'lesser' government means a seat in public office?

michaelintp

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #86 on: April 21, 2010, 08:45:10 PM »
So, Mike... a promise of 'lesser' government means a seat in public office?

Not necessarily. Depends on how many sensible voters there are.  ;)

Offline Francisco

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #87 on: April 21, 2010, 09:02:33 PM »
I think it depends of the candidates and how well they manage to show what they're all about and to address the needs of the voters.
To promise someone who just got mugged to reduce the size of government isn't smart campaigning.
Don't get fooled by the bombs that I get I'm still I'm still Saddam from Iraq.

michaelintp

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #88 on: April 22, 2010, 07:05:36 AM »
C'mon guys, you know I was only kidding.  Of course it may depend on what local government spends its money on.  If it is for police, the fire department, road maintenance, other forms public maintenance, that's one thing.  Or it may be that the voters are being short-sighted, or willing to believe unrealistic promises of a free lunch, that if really pursued will financially run the city into the ground, drive out business and new business development, increase unemployment, and the like.  Depends on the facts of the specific case.  However, given the dire economic condition of so many of our cities these days, I would bet on the latter being the case.  After all, nobody likes to be told that they've maxed out on their credit and that its time to pay up.  Hmmmm ... now that I think about it ... maybe I wasn't really kidding after all, hahaha.  ;D

(Oh, and Jay, I do agree with you that I am troubled that the Europeans have been taking a free ride on the United States for decades.  I just don't see how weakening the U.S. Military will benefit us over the long term, given the geopolitical threats we face and will continue to face.  I really don't want the United States to end up like England or France, as a "former" power.  Someone else will fill the vacuum, and odds are it won't be someone nice.  On the issue of "trusting" businesses, it is not a matter of mere trust. Those investment bankers either should not have received those bailouts, or if to avert disaster they were absolutely necessary, heavy strings should have been attached that were not. As a general rule, we are better off by allowing markets to operate freely and efficiently, but without fraud or misrepresentation, with aggressive criminal and civil pursuit of those who would attempt to defraud the public. Because while the State can defer paying the piper, the piper will eventually need to be paid; even for a nation as affluent as the United States, the Government cannot sustain its position indefinitely based on policies of short-sighted fiscal irresponsibility. The sh*t will hit the fan, and we, and even more our children and grandchildren, will have to pay the price of our short-sightedness. There really is no free lunch.)

But, anyway, does anyone have any reaction to the article by Shannon Travis, CNN Political Producer, that I posted above? Did anyone find it eye-opening, or view Mr. Travis's experience and perceptions as reasons to give the vast majority of the Tea Party folk the benefit of the doubt? (Not that you agree with 'em, but that you are at least willing to view them in a different light).

Offline Redjack

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Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« Reply #89 on: April 22, 2010, 09:38:32 PM »
No.

Meeting celebrities and prominent social figures who happen to be black is not the same for a great many white people as just meeting a black person. The former get an exemption that the normal folks don't.

It's about gettin' down for what you stand for, yo. For real. -DMX