Author Topic: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.  (Read 104495 times)

Offline sinjection1

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #135 on: May 12, 2010, 10:40:30 am »
I agree, hopefully when/if he joins again it will get mention more often, but atleast he be in the main cast of the new Avenger cartoon..

I wonder how long we'll have to wait before the Black Panther debut in the series. If I'm looking at the correct promos for the series, it appears we'll have to slog through the back stories of Capt. America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Ant-Man, and Wasp before we get to our (or at least, my) favorite Avenger, the Black Panther.

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Yeah those are basically his powers, before m-day he was the leader of his squad Alpha Squadron, he also one of the few gay characters imo that not written like a stereotype/stereotypical way (I don't even notice he was until I read NM vol.2 & New X-Men for the 2nd time),
 

4Sake, you touch on very interesting subjects. We've all read it posted now and again - indeed, in this very thread - that Marvel Comics needs more black writers writing black characters. We've all discovered that all black writers can't please all black readers all of the time. Hudlin has suffered the slings and arrows of critics black and white alike who have found him lacking when it comes to capturing the true essence of the Black Panther and even moreso, Storm. He once had Storm utter a phrase (it's been so long ago now I've even forgotten what it was Storm even said) however, some deemed that one phrase so much out of Storm's character that it was discussed for quite some time.

So, it's difficult for talented black writers to portray black characters in a fashion that satisfies the diverse comicbook readership, how much more difficult then must it be for a writer to portray a gay character. Black characters are readily identifiable as such unless one takes into account the occasional x-geek who insists Storm - born of a Black-American father and a Kenyan mother - somehow managed to emerge from her black mother's womb a patchwork quilt of mutant humanity. Gays aren't as easily identified. Who would have ever suspected Northstar or Rawhide Kid of being gay? For a long time, Storm was written pretty much asexual (and quite badly IMO) during her earliest X-Men days. Ambiguous writing by Claremont (which I've only read about in forum posts but never seen evidence of in any comicbooks) and suggestive illustrations of Storm and other female characters (again, I"ve only read about these "scenes" in forum posts) has apparently convinced more than a few x-geeks that Storm is bi-sexual. Unless writers have a character come right out - "out of the closet" as it were - and state their sexual orientation or we see evidence of this orientation acted upon with another character, it is impossible to identify a gay character. Meanwhile, a character like Nezhno for instance is a prime target for those who eagerly labeled Storm bi-sexual and who are no doubt disgusted to see that Ororo seems to be a confirmed heterosexual. Unless some writer has Nezhno and Pixie in a Beak/Angel drunken underage intercourse/impregnation fiasco, his sexual orientation is undetermined.


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As for his tongue I remember him using it in battle once in New X-Men & once in Young X-Men. In New Mutants vol.2 I vaguely remember him using it to play sports (I think he caught a frisbee & football with it & maybe using it to play basketball once) when the kids there hang out. Plus it looks cool..  8)


I remember watching the Toad character using his tongue in the X-Men Evolution animated series. It just didn't seem to click with me. For one, the tongue is a very sensitive organ. To put it out there in harm's way like that doesn't seem too healthy.

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Yeah he some what back.. Selene had Eli Bard resurrect & some what completely control (they were trying to fight our of her control) alot dead former X-Men (he was one the one that was) so that they could battle with & distract X-Men while she had resurrect all 16 million mutants who died on Genosha that died.. Her goal sacrifice/eat their souls so she could become all powerfully/immortal, but she didn't get all the souls she need so she didn't become immortal so Warpath was able to do it defeat/kill her. All  to most of the mutants that were on Genosha souls were taking by her, but not not all the all the dead x-men/mutants that were fighting the X-Men on Utopia were. So he could one of the one who souls wasn't taken by her.  Then they would just need to take the transmode virus  out of his system/body just like they did Doug Ramsey & he would be good as new/maybe even better..

Looks like more X-Men weirdness to me  :D  I'd sure love to see Synch back healthy, whole and as a powerful black male mutant.   

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Glad that you do & I agree.. that is one of my main prob. with Kasper (beside he should have never became BP in the 1st.. At a minimum you should atleast be 15-25 % Wakandan/have Wakandan blood to be the BP.. ) I don't mind him calling himself the White Tiger (I think Kasper is a better/cool name than it), but also long as it has nothing to do with Wakanda because doesn't make sense in story.. But even worse was the Gold Lion.. it doesn't make sense at all for there to be Gold Lion in the Panther Cult with there is a Lion Cult in Wakanda & that Lion Cult/Lion God has been shown to dislike/attack T'Challa & hate the Panther Cult. the Gold Lion should be the Lion Cult version of the Black Panther.. An the Crocodile Cult should have the Green Crocodie or something like that..

In total agreement all the way.

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Aslo the English/British Howler/Howling Command is Percival ''Percy'' Pinkerton..

Thanks  ;) I think the only two Howlers that have ever stuck in my memory are Sgt Fury and Dum Dum Dugan.
Mr. MajestiK, I like your style. You are the wiser, calmer, more articulate second coming of sinjection to "that other place". You do me proud.

Offline 4sake

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #136 on: May 15, 2010, 01:19:43 am »

I wonder how long we'll have to wait before the Black Panther debut in the series. If I'm looking at the correct promos for the series, it appears we'll have to slog through the back stories of Capt. America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Ant-Man, and Wasp before we get to our (or at least, my) favorite Avenger, the Black Panther.


He's on this promo pic..





Christopher Yost  :  There's some new 'Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes' animated art floating around out there on the interweb. 7 of the 8 members revealed!

http://www.animatedsuperheroes.com/labels/2011%20Avengers%20Earth%27s%20Mightiest%20Heroes.html

http://twitter.com/yost/statuses/8687684389




4Sake, you touch on very interesting subjects. We've all read it posted now and again - indeed, in this very thread - that Marvel Comics needs more black writers writing black characters. We've all discovered that all black writers can't please all black readers all of the time. Hudlin has suffered the slings and arrows of critics black and white alike who have found him lacking when it comes to capturing the true essence of the Black Panther and even moreso, Storm. He once had Storm utter a phrase (it's been so long ago now I've even forgotten what it was Storm even said) however, some deemed that one phrase so much out of Storm's character that it was discussed for quite some time.

So, it's difficult for talented black writers to portray black characters in a fashion that satisfies the diverse comicbook readership, how much more difficult then must it be for a writer to portray a gay character. Black characters are readily identifiable as such unless one takes into account the occasional x-geek who insists Storm - born of a Black-American father and a Kenyan mother - somehow managed to emerge from her black mother's womb a patchwork quilt of mutant humanity.



Very true..

Gays aren't as easily identified. Who would have ever suspected Northstar or Rawhide Kid of being gay? For a long time, Storm was written pretty much asexual (and quite badly IMO) during her earliest X-Men days. Ambiguous writing by Claremont (which I've only read about in forum posts but never seen evidence of in any comicbooks) and suggestive illustrations of Storm and other female characters (again, I"ve only read about these "scenes" in forum posts) has apparently convinced more than a few x-geeks that Storm is bi-sexual. Unless writers have a character come right out - "out of the closet" as it were - and state their sexual orientation or we see evidence of this orientation acted upon with another character, it is impossible to identify a gay character.


I agree & John Byrne petty much says he always intened for Northstar to be gay/created Northstar as gay man.

Was it your intended when you created Northstar that he would be a gay man?

JB: When I created Alpha Flight they were basically half a dozen characters who could survive a prolonged battle with the X-Men. They had very little depth -- tho I am a compulsive creator of backstory, so I knew something about their histories even then -- and were not really created with any thought toward them eventually getting their own title.
Unfortunately (?) they proved enormously popular, and so Marvel began pushing me to do an ALPHA FLIGHT book. Eventually I relented, and agreed to do the series -- which meant I had one problem instantly: I had to find ways to make those characters more three dimensional.

One of the things that popped immediately into my head was to make one of them Gay. I had recently read an article in SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN on what was then (the early 80s) fairly radical new thinking on just what processes caused a person to be homosexual, and the evidence was pointing increasingly to it being genetic and not environmental factors. So, I thought, it seemed like it was time for a Gay superhero, and since I was being "forced" to make ALPHA FLIGHT a real series, I might as well make one of them Gay.

From there, it was a process of elimination. I didn't want the homosexual character to be one of the girls, since that was something people tended to associate (rightly or wrongly) with Claremont books. Mac Hudson and Heather were happily married and I did not want to mess with that. Michael was widowed with a daughter, and that way lay what I considered too much of a cliche, if he turned out to be Gay. Besides, as a Native Canadian he was already the resident "minority". The new guy, Puck, had his own set of problems. Sasquatach would be just too damn scary!! So I settled on Jean-Paul, and the moment I did I realized it was already there. Somewhere in the back of my mind I must have been considering making him Gay before I "decided" to so so.

Of course, the temper of the times, the Powers That Were and, naturally, the Comics Code would not let me come right out and state that Jean-Paul was homosexual, but I managed to "get the word out" even with those barriers. (8/24/2004)


http://www.byrnerobotics.com/FAQ/listing.asp?ID=2&T1=Questions+about+Comic+Book+Projects#106

Also Bling!/Roxanne ''Roxy'' Washington is both black/AA & a lesbian.. 8)





Also was thinking the today that there are a many characters that could easily identify as being mixed/multiracial(who right now are only know to be white)...  They could multiracial because the way they been drawn/the way there parents have been drawn/their parents haven't been show yet/their character history  & few other reasons.  Off the of top head Mercury, Gambit Cloud 9, Carmilla Black/Thanasee Rappaccini, Iron Fist/Rand & Rockslide could easy be multiracial characters..

Meanwhile, a character like Nezhno for instance is a prime target for those who eagerly labeled Storm bi-sexual and who are no doubt disgusted to see that Ororo seems to be a confirmed heterosexual. Unless some writer has Nezhno and Pixie in a Beak/Angel drunken underage intercourse/impregnation fiasco, his sexual orientation is undetermined.


PLEASE ANY ONE OTHER THAN PIXIE..

If the New X-Men ever get a book again I'd like to see him date :

Dust - the both have outside looking in thing going when it come to being X-students & they seem to have mutual respect for each other & ..





Or

Mercury - because she basically(non-toxic) living metal he will be able to feel her because his  vibranium tattoos/powers make hard for him to feel things, but he felt Mercury when she touch him..  





I remember watching the Toad character using his tongue in the X-Men Evolution animated series. It just didn't seem to click with me. For one, the tongue is a very sensitive organ. To put it out there in harm's way like that doesn't seem too healthy.


True lol I remember him garbing with it & Scott shotting it with his beam & burning.. Also he came at Logan with once & he cut it with his claws..

But here Anole using his to get the remote & play basket ball (I think)..

  

Thanks  ;) I think the only two Howlers that have ever stuck in my memory are Sgt Fury and Dum Dum Dugan.


No prob, Yeah after the Fruy, Dugan & Jones the rest aren't really all that important or mention that much..

Also I remember you mention Prodigy while I'm not really a fan of his, but I thought I'd let u know he was last shown helping Scott organize/run his forces/teams in the 2nd coming.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 09:07:49 pm by 4sake »
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Offline 4sake

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #137 on: May 15, 2010, 06:53:59 pm »
However,in defense of some of the things we've seen in DW...

I am not at all appalled to see DOOM winning so handily the initial engagements v BP and placing BP in such dire peril.Simply put,this unprecedented success by an arch-enemy of such weight,power,reputation and brilliance as DOOM is purely grounds for an even more stunning victory by SHURI,TCHALLA,STORM and the band of heroes whom they've selected to overcome DOOM.

DW has been a textbook example of how a dramatic story should be told. The Prelude To DOOMWAR provided the set up and earliest action events. DW 1, 2, & 3 is taking the action towards the climax. All successful dramatic stories satisfy each of the necessary structural stages ending of course, with the resolution of the story. I'm still optimistic that the resolution of this story will be very favorable for every Black Panther, Storm, Shuri, Wakanda fan.

It's the nature of the events comprising the early stages of the story to this point which have chafed so many of us. I give Doom his props; he is an arch-villian at the apex of the MU. I understand that a good story should make the observer develop the customary feelings of antagonism for the bad guy, and goodwill for the hero. In this instance however, a story is developing where the villain of the piece is not only portrayed as infinitely more prepared as he has outmaneuvered and outclassed the heroes from the word go, the characterization of Doom has been such that his villainy is debatable.

This entire post is yet another example of sinjection's piercing intellect,his sure suasion borne from his lucid logic...and I completely respect this perspective that he offers here.Now my response here is sooo thoroughly subjective,that many who don't agree with me or see where I'm coming from could be and I think should be forgiven,but I think that any practicing martial artist--including the Hall of Fame inductee author of DOOMWAR,our very own JM--will feel me on this.

I was teaching clients of my ATACX GYM shortly after my post to sinjection detailing portions of the reasons why I have no problem with DOOM handily winning the early rounds in his confrontation with TCHALLA,WAKANDA and the assembled heroes at large,when in walks this crew of bruthas including in their number an impressively muscled brutha about 6'4" and 255 pounds of solid,striated sinew.He exuded that deep confidence and alpha-alpha male aura of the proven,experienced,skilled combatant and predator.I peeped him out of the corner of my eye as his boi from his crew (a young dude in his late 20's of similar height but only about 215 pounds,and whom I'd had occassion to physically remonstrate with regarding using excessive force when sparring with a comparatively new FEMALE client of mine literally 100 pounds lighter and 8 inches shorter after warning him FIVE TIMES regarding that behaviour with other clients of mine in the space of a week,then finally expelling him from my gym and returning his money to him) pointed me out.This NFL linebacker type brutha nodded once,observed me teach my client the shoulder roll off of the jab,then moved directly toward me when I finished.

As I turned to face him,he asked me only one question:"Did you kick (I'M DELIBERATELY NOT USING THE NAME OF THE BRUTHA WHOM I EXPELLED OUT OF MY GYM FOR LIABILITY REASONS,NOT BECAUSE I HAVE A SPECIAL CONCERN FOR PROTECTING HIS ANONYMITY) out of here?"

"Yes..." was all I had time to say before he bull rushed me with a double leg.I sprawled and helicoptered (the spin you use to go directly to your opponent's back from a sprawl without touching your feet on the ground.It's much faster than the regular method of spinning to your opponent's back).This huge brutha spun beneath me like a sabertooth tiger and somehow prevented me from getting his back,while seizing me with huge strength and literally throwing me away like he was doing a chest pass with a medicine ball.I snapped a back tuck mid-air,landed on my feet and we went at it hard and fast.Bare knuckle.No protective equipment.Old skool style.

Even at age 40--yes I'm 40--I usually enjoy a significant quickness and speed advantage over most people.I can still pull off a nearly 2 minute 800 meter and a sub 4.5 40 meter sprint.I can both bench press double my bodyweight and squat quadruple my bodyweight for reps,and I almost never lift steel.This kid was 10 years my junior and 100 pounds heavier,plus 7-8 inches taller.Par for the course for me,I've beaten guys like this mucho times.Nothing new there.What WAS new was when this dude smoothly transformed a shotgun jab he fired and which I barely eluded into a rolling downward backfist which cracked me just under my left ear and across my carotid.Another new thing was how he transformed his backfist into a neck tie and slammed a knee into my chest that--even though I barely blocked it--was delivered with such explosive power that it literally knocked me backwards off of my feet and snatched me out of his own grip.This guy was every bit as quick as I am,and that was every bit as disconcerting as seeing that this guy had a strong traditional martial arts background that covered the easily exploitable holes that most guys with MMA training--which he also had--leave wide open and which I'm used to exploiting.While I was enjoying the pain shooting down my neck from his backfist and the shortness of breath and fiery pain caused by his knee,he removed all doubt about his traditional martial arts background by firing a wicked knife kick at my groin which I barely managed to avoid,which set me up for a cold Muay Thai shin kick to the body which I also parried but which delivered alot of trauma to my conditioned forearms and shin which blocked the kick.I barely slipped the following cross and literally had to leap away in a dive roll to avoid being caught by his same-side knee/spinning elbow combination.I came back with a feint-sidekick to his knee which he dismissively blocked MT style,followed with a back kick that he not only waved away but nearly caught me in a standing achilles lock for even trying,I jumped over his attempt to shin kick my standing leg while running me backwards toward the gym wall and disengaged his hold on my foot with a kenpo technique called Breaking the Fetters and his answering hook missed ripping my head off by a quarter second.I'd angled myself to take advantage of the momentum he built up while running me toward the wall to either avoid the wall entirely or use the rebound to my advantage but he read me perfectly and stopped my attempted diagonal escape with another beautiful shin kick which I mostly parried but which still opened up my forehead.I took that momentum and the slamming energy of me against the wall to execute a double role from capoeira and a dive roll to put space between he and I but he was all over me with knees fists and elbows.I parried slipped eluded and countered with a ridgehand to the groin but he totally stopped that and countered with a handsword to my neck which I eluded.I served a left to his muscled stomach which scored,he countered with a overhand right which grazed me,I tried to toss him with a judo knee wheel and he wasn't having ANY of that PLUS he nearly tripped me with a foot sweep which I evaded,then he took me down with a left leg inside trip on my left leg.I countered immediately with a judo tomonage and thought I was going to take advantage and finish him but he executed a beautiful breakfall and rolled smoothly to his feet in a fighting stance,and immediately began moving in on me again.I started using my trademark elusive footwork but this guy was looking waaay too comfy tracking me down.He looked like a sabertooth on skates,huge powerful fluid quick smooth and predatory and I knew I was in trouble.

For the first time in my life,I'd been confronted by someone who was stronger,longer,just as quick or quicker,just as technically sound,possessed of just as deep of a combat arsenal,just as impressive with his conditioning so he could fight as long or longer than I can,just as coordinated,and mentally just as strong.I had ZERO of the traditional advantages that I usually used to quickly and decisively resolve matters in my own favor.After 34 years of martial arts training to overcome whatever obstacle,I was realizing under fire that I'd grown complacent with the physical,technical and mental advantages which I'd used time and time again to overcome my adversaries whatever their size and number...and I was facing that unpleasant sensation that comes to us when we're not only uncertain but deeply concerned that failure will have the worst possible consequences for us.

You know how I beat him? During another scramble during which we exchanged sidekicks,knees,heel hook kicks,punches,forearm smashes,elbows,and during which he blocked my 5 Swords (probably the trademark technique of my base punching and kicking art,Kenpo Karate) not only once but TWICE (again something which has never happened),this dude pulled off a jab,used a crescent kick to my lead left foot to almost sweep me,feinted a single leg and pulled off a Jon Bones Jones like spinning elbow which would have taken my whole head off had I not used my ginga to slide right under him while simultaneously slipping the elbow.I spit right in his face,then--off of a totally spontaneous movement borne from the fact that this dude had literally backed me into a corner blocking my escape--I used a Parkour style bounce off of the wall combined with Kenpo's Parting Wings to launch myself literally head first ( la cabeca in capoeira) like a human spear into his wide open face while his eyes were closed by my spit.This cracked his nose wide open and allowed me to roll passed him as his spine bent back like he was doing the Limbo under a bar.I finished his with a sidekick to the base of his spine and a full powered,full contact spin kick to his temple.He hit the ground out cold.

I calmly looked at the brutha whom I'd expelled,and told him he'd better get this dude I just beat as well as himself out of my gym right now because I'm calling the police.I put my cellie on loud speaker and let him hear the 911 operator answer the phone for effect to emphasize my point.Those guys evaporated before the police arrived,but I gave them every bit of info that I had on them including the make and color of the car they were driving,and every name that I knew pertaining to them.I also immediately moved my training location for the next 2 weeks.

Wow ur life is like a movie..  8) (I wish  U cud saw this go down)

What does this have to do with DOOMWAR? Simply EVERYTHING.

TChalla and the Wakandans had grown complacent using their traditional advantages over traditional foes.All of their foes-including DOOM--were constantly being trumped or at least nuetralized by Wakanda and TCHALLA because none of their foes had the wherewithal to change their games up enough to acquire a genuine advantage over the Wakandans.The Wakandans--unsurpassed in any field of human endeavor--saw no need to change what they were doing,as what they'd been doing was sufficient to repel any and all invaders of every stripe for 10,000 years.No ties ever.Wakanda slaughtered all her assailants,using her trademark tactic of leaving one foe alive to go back and warn all of his/her/their/its compatriots with words essentially reflecting JASON AARON'S run on BP during the Invasion: SEE WAKANDA AND DIE.Doom,Galactus,The Deviants,The Eternals,The Inhumans,SHIELD,the Zombie virus,etc. have all sought advantages over WAKANDA and all have failed,all were foiled by Wakanda's 100% foolproof methods.

Until now.


Interesting/good points

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Offline sinjection1

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #138 on: May 16, 2010, 05:15:49 am »
He's on this promo pic..



I've seen this promo but for some reason, didn't connect it to the upcoming animated t.v. show. The Panther is looking good. When it comes to style, functionality, and the intimidation/coolness factor, the Black Panther habit is second to none when compared to the costume/garb of the other superhero types. I always preferred the Panther without the cape, especially when the character is in battle. He (and/or she) appears more streamlined and sleek without the cape.

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I agree & John Byrne petty much says he always intened for Northstar to be gay/created Northstar as gay man.

Was it your intended when you created Northstar that he would be a gay man?

JB: When I created Alpha Flight they were basically half a dozen characters who could survive a prolonged battle with the X-Men. They had very little depth -- tho I am a compulsive creator of backstory, so I knew something about their histories even then -- and were not really created with any thought toward them eventually getting their own title.
Unfortunately (?) they proved enormously popular, and so Marvel began pushing me to do an ALPHA FLIGHT book. Eventually I relented, and agreed to do the series -- which meant I had one problem instantly: I had to find ways to make those characters more three dimensional.


Very interesting. "Unfortunately(?) they [Alpha Flight] proved enormously popular, and so Marvel began pushing me to do an ALPHA FLIGHT book." In my always humble opinion, Alpha Flight was one of the more exciting concepts developed for Marvel Comics period. The characters were fresh, original, intriguing, diverse, and dynamic---as exciting if not more so, than the X-Men. Byrne's comments seem to suggest he wasn't altogether enthused about his creation and that's what strikes me as being unfortunate. I now have to wonder if the very untimely death of James Hudson/Vindicator could have been Byrne's way of sabotaging Alpha Flight. I would hope not. An Alpha Flight team consisting of: Vindicator/J. Hudson, Guardian/H. Hudson, Sasquatch, Snowbird, Pathway, Goblyn, Northstar, Aurora, Shaman and Talisman would definitely reinvigorate my flagging interest in comics. A limited series featuring Cloak and Dagger as temporary members of the Imperial Guard would catch my interest as well. By the way 4Sake, whatever happened to Pathway and Goblyn? I doubt they're on Utopia.

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One of the things that popped immediately into my head was to make one of them Gay. I had recently read an article in SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN on what was then (the early 80s) fairly radical new thinking on just what processes caused a person to be homosexual, and the evidence was pointing increasingly to it being genetic and not environmental factors. So, I thought, it seemed like it was time for a Gay superhero, and since I was being "forced" to make ALPHA FLIGHT a real series, I might as well make one of them Gay.


hmmmm...Byrne felt "forced" to develop his excellent Alpha Flight concept as an ongoing and feeling put upon, decided to make a Flight member gay. Any inspiration for introducing a gay character Byrne might have found in the Scientific American article makes perfect sense to me. But it seems that the other part of Byrne's reasoning for making a Flight member gay was a sort of retaliation for being "forced" to produce the Alpha Flight ongoing.  :-\....don't know what to make of that.

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From there, it was a process of elimination. I didn't want the homosexual character to be one of the girls, since that was something people tended to associate (rightly or wrongly) with Claremont books.


Like Storm for instance. Ororo might not have been headed toward homosexuality but in the opinions of many Claremont/x-geeks, Storm's bisexuality was established fact. Hudlin's MARRIAGE OF THE CENTURY might not have ended this speculation but like RoLo, the "Storm is bisexual" express has been derailed by one of Hudlin's "many mistakes".

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Mac Hudson and Heather were happily married and I did not want to mess with that.


Nope. Don't let homosexuality become an issue in Mac and Heather's marriage; ugly, hairy, height-challenged dirty old men however... go for it. Both Wolverine and Puck had a thing for Mrs. Hudson at one time or another. In addition, IIRC, there was a significant age difference between Mac and Heather (ala Reed and Sue). The Hudsons didn't need any additional pressures on their marriage.

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Michael was widowed with a daughter, and that way lay what I considered too much of a cliche, if he turned out to be Gay. Besides, as a Native Canadian he was already the resident "minority". The new guy, Puck, had his own set of problems.


Heightened focus on a character's sexual orientation is a fairly recent phenomenon. Readers of Kid Colt, Two-Gun Kid, and Rawhide Kid weren't overly concerned with the sexuality of those characters. Yes, while there may or may not have been hints of homosexuality, obvious heterosexuality has always been depicted in a very tame way in comics. Heterosexual flirtations and marriages were prevalent. How many readers thought of heterosexual characters as a "majority"? Homosexuals are a minority---an "invisible" minority. Dr. Twoyoungmen/Shaman - a Native American - was a visible "resident minority". Laura Dean - a Black female - was a visible "resident minority" of Beta Flight. Had either Shaman or Pathway been homosexual as well, the reader would not have noticed this added aspect of "minority" status unless they learned of it through the character's public or private thoughts or statements on the matter or through intimate interaction with a character of their same gender.

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Sasquatach would be just too damn scary!!


...just too damn scary to be gay? I'm aware of the "lipstick lesbian" and super-fine gay male stereotypes out there. Throw the metrosexual in there too. Walter Langkowski wasn't "just too damn scary" to bed the beautiful Jeanne-Marie Baubier.

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So I settled on Jean-Paul, and the moment I did I realized it was already there. Somewhere in the back of my mind I must have been considering making him Gay before I "decided" to so so.


Every member of Alpha Flight was interesting; however, it seemed to me that Northstar was gaining in fan popularity at a faster rate than the others. I remember confirmed Northstar's homosexuality making t.v. national news reports. Looking back on Jean-Paul's earliest civilian appearances, he did seem aloof of the female attention he received. At the time, I chalked it all up to his being an arrogant ass. Eventually however, I did pick up on certain clues - the interaction between himself and Aurora when they both believed Langkowski to have been killed and his "mysterious illness" that appeared to me to be the A.I.D.S. virus at that time.

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Of course, the temper of the times, the Powers That Were and, naturally, the Comics Code would not let me come right out and state that Jean-Paul was homosexual, but I managed to "get the word out" even with those barriers. (8/24/2004)


The Rawhide Kid didn't become homosexual until recently, 5 years or so. Since Northstar, it seems there has been a proliferation of characters either being created homosexual or allowing circumstances of how established characters have been written to dictate their sexual orientation. Recently, I learned that the character Shatterstar is homosexual although his creator says he did not create him as such. As with the Rawhide Kid, editors interpreted Shatterstar's limited interaction with females as being a preference for males. The same could happen to Nezhno.

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Also Bling!/Roxanne ''Roxy'' Washington is both black/AA & a lesbian.. 8)





These scans are the most attractive illustrations of Bling I"ve seen to date. Like Jessica Jones (who was looking quite fetching legs crossed and wearing bunny slippers) it appears some artists have decided to give Bling a break from the ugly stick.

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Also was thinking the today that there are a many characters that could easily identify as being mixed/multiracial(who right now are only know to be white)...  They could multiracial because the way they been drawn/the way there parents have been drawn/their parents haven't been show yet/their character history  & few other reasons.  Off the of top head Mercury, Gambit Cloud 9, Carmilla Black/Thanasee Rappaccini, Iron Fist/Rand & Rockslide could easy be multiracial characters..


Really? Worth investigating in my spare time. Marvel doesn't seem shy about hooking up attractive black female characters with white male characters and at least 2 of those white characters have killed their black female lovers: Calypso/Kraven The Hunter - I believe Kraven killed Calypso. Nekra (black, although her skin is chalk-white)/Grim Reaper - Reaper killed Nekra. Wolverine has kissed Storm once or twice. Misty Knight pregnant and engaged to Danny Rand. Celia Reyes/Hank McCoy. Glory Grant (J.J. Jameson's erstwhile secretary) dated the hispanic characters Hector Ayala and Eduardo Lobo.

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PLEASE ANY ONE OTHER THAN PIXIE..


I defer to your more comprehensive knowledge of all things X-Men  :D I mentioned Pixie because of the memory of some member at "the other place" suggesting the two of them together.

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If the New X-Men ever get a book again I'd like to see him date :

Dust - the both have outside looking in thing going when it come to being X-students & they seem to have mutual respect for each other & ..





I don't follow the mutants anymore, but I do have a vague awareness of the characters. I see an illustration of Dust without her veil. Never saw that before. Knowing Marvel's and the x-writer's penchant for getting their white male characters into the pants of all female characters - white/non-white/extraterrestrial/extra-dimensional, etc...- I expect the rest of Dust's clothes will join her discarded veil and she'll find her completely naked body in the arms of some male X-Man not named Nezhno or Prodigy very soon, if not sooner.

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Or Mercury - because she basically(non-toxic) living metal he will be able to feel her because his  vibranium tattoos/powers make hard for him to feel things, but he felt Mercury when she touch him.. 



[/url
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With their tattoos and all, Nezhno and T'Challa are beginning to look like twin brothers.

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Also I remember you mention Prodigy while I'm not really a fan of his, but I thought I'd let u know he was last shown helping Scott organize/run his forces/teams in the 2nd coming.



Cool. I hope Prodigy doesn't manage to get himself killed off by an x-writer anytime soon.
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Offline 4sake

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #139 on: May 16, 2010, 03:27:09 pm »

I've seen this promo but for some reason, didn't connect it to the upcoming animated t.v. show. The Panther is looking good. When it comes to style, functionality, and the intimidation/coolness factor, the Black Panther habit is second to none when compared to the costume/garb of the other superhero types. I always preferred the Panther without the cape, especially when the character is in battle. He (and/or she) appears more streamlined and sleek without the cape.



Yeah, he does look petty cool their..


Very interesting. "Unfortunately(?) they [Alpha Flight] proved enormously popular, and so Marvel began pushing me to do an ALPHA FLIGHT book." In my always humble opinion, Alpha Flight was one of the more exciting concepts developed for Marvel Comics period. The characters were fresh, original, intriguing, diverse, and dynamic---as exciting if not more so, than the X-Men. Byrne's comments seem to suggest he wasn't altogether enthused about his creation and that's what strikes me as being unfortunate. I now have to wonder if the very untimely death of James Hudson/Vindicator could have been Byrne's way of sabotaging Alpha Flight. I would hope not. An Alpha Flight team consisting of: Vindicator/J. Hudson, Guardian/H. Hudson, Sasquatch, Snowbird, Pathway, Goblyn, Northstar, Aurora, Shaman and Talisman would definitely reinvigorate my flagging interest in comics. A limited series featuring Cloak and Dagger as temporary members of the Imperial Guard would catch my interest as well.


Think he feels that way is because they were something he thought wasn't that great/good maybe because when 1st made them for marvel they supposed be a 1 & done type team that could fight the X-Men & not die.. I think he never felt he ever put his hole heart into them like he did in Iron Fist creation  or his Super Man stories or his She-Hulk stories.. Kitty P. creation & etc..  Plus giving them a book probably was Jim Shooter idea or Shooter may made him write there ongoing & really seem to not like Shooter at all.. If it helps  he didn't put his all in making the Original New Mutants team/concept either because Shooter made he & CC make them.

I've heard you say more than once that you disliked your ALPHA FLIGHT run. Was it the art or the writing that you thought fell down?

JB: Alpha Flight (the team) were never really meant to be anything more than a bunch of superheroes who could survive a fight with the X-Men. They had no real depth, and I resisted suggestions that they get their own book for a couple of years. Then, finally, realizing Marvel would probably get someone else to do it, if I didn't, I relented and agreed. (Sidebar: ALPHA FLIGHT #1 was the biggest selling comic of its day -- 500,000 copies!!)

Down through the years, a number of Gay fans have approached me to say "thanks" for ALPHA FLIGHT and NorthStar, so I suppose it justifies its existence in that way -- but as a whole, except for a couple of bright moments, the book just never gelled for me, art- or story-wise. (4/4/98)


http://www.byrnerobotics.com/FAQ/listing.asp?ID=2&T1=Questions+about+Comic+Book+Projects#10


JB: Several members of what became Alpha Flight date back to my fan days. Guardian is chief among them, being created when I was in my early 20s as the figurehead of a whole line of "Canadian comics" I was hoping to produce. Snowbird, in very different form, was born around the same time. Shaman, originally called Chinook (he had only weather-controlling powers) came next. (There was also a character called Phoenix. No chance he would ever have made it into Alpha Flight!)

When I was assigned the gig of penciling UNCANNY X-MEN, Chris Claremont mentioned that Dave Cockrum had an idea that the Canadian government probably would not be too thrilled to see their multi-million dollar investment -- Wolverine -- head south as had so many other Canadian resources. Surely, he suggested, Ottawa would send somebody, perhaps even a team, to get him back. This sounded like a great idea, to me, and, of course, I had just the characters to do it. We decided to start with just one, tho, the leader of the group. Since Marvel at that time was publishing GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY the Powers that Were nixed the name Guardian, and since my backup, the Canadian Shield, was equally problematic in the Marvel Universe, he was without a name for a while. Chris took to calling him "Major Mapleleaf", and Roger Stern said we'd better come up with a name before that one stuck. Chris then tacked on "Vindicator", which absolutely did not work for me. What does Canada need to "vindicate"? I began pushing for the restoration of Guardian, and eventually pushed that thru.

Before that happened, tho, we had our "sequel" to do, with that group of Canadians coming down to reclaim Wolverine. I dropped in the renamed (and power enhanced) Shaman and a redesigned Snowbird, and came up with Northstar and Aurora (super speed to counter Nightcrawler's teleportation), and Sasquatch (to balance Colossus) and off we went. In the process I came up with real names and some backstory for each.

But in my mind, Alpha Flight existed only as a team assembled to fight the X-Men. When Marvel asked for an Alpha series, I resisted for a long time. I just didn't see much that could be done with them. (7/16/2008)


http://www.byrnerobotics.com/FAQ/listing.asp?ID=2&T1=Questions+about+Comic+Book+Projects#119

I now have to wonder if the very untimely death of James Hudson/Vindicator could have been Byrne's way of sabotaging Alpha Flight

Naw he seemed happy to kill him off

Do you think you would have worked ALPHA FLIGHT differently if there hadn't been such a drive for doing "real" death stories in comics at the time? And do you wish you wouldn't have killed Jim?

JB: One of us is misremembering the period. I don't recall any "drive" for "real" death stories at the time I offed Mac. Rather, I did that particular story because I felt Mac was the least interesting of all the members of Alpha, but realized that from his death I could generate a whole flock of interesting subplots and arcs. In my constant quest to make the members of Alpha more three dimensional, I was always looking for anything that could be used to generate depth in their personalities. Mac's death -- and their reactions to it -- was such a way. So, no, I've never regretted killing him.


http://www.byrnerobotics.com/FAQ/listing.asp?ID=2&T1=Questions+about+Comic+Book+Projects#12

By the way 4Sake, whatever happened to Pathway and Goblyn? I doubt they're on Utopia.


Your right they are in Comic book Limbo..


hmmmm...Byrne felt "forced" to develop his excellent Alpha Flight concept as an ongoing and feeling put upon, decided to make a Flight member gay. Any inspiration for introducing a gay character Byrne might have found in the Scientific American article makes perfect sense to me. But it seems that the other part of Byrne's reasoning for making a Flight member gay was a sort of retaliation for being "forced" to produce the Alpha Flight ongoing.  :-\....don't know what to make of that.



Yeah it look like petty everyone at marvel thought they were a great concept while he felt they suck So he just eventually gave in did the book..

Like he said up in the quote I think add that Northstar character/concept three dimensional because before he was petty much Canadian Quicksliver.. 

I'm think is what saw them as for the most part  (that till he add some depth in their personalities)

Northstar = French Canadian Quicksliver (both kind of aholes, twins & have same power)
Aurora = French Canadian Wanda (both Crazy as hell & both twins)
Sasquatch = Canadian Beast/Hank (both smart & have simlar powers)
Guardian/Vindicator = Canadian Captain America/Iron Man (simlar powers to Iron Man & simlar outfit to Captain America) 
Snowbird = Canadian female Thor (both Gods)
Puck = shorter Wolverine (both short & hairy)
Shaman = Canadian Thunderbird with Magic powers
Heather MacNeil = kind of the Canadian Wasp (got her powers from her bf/Husband like Wasp did)
Marrina Smallwood = Canadian Female Namor (While he lived with his mother ppl, she lived with her adopted father ppl)

More than like that petty much what he saw them as till gave them more depth, there own character traits & etc.


Had either Shaman or Pathway been homosexual as well, the reader would not have noticed this added aspect of "minority" status unless they learned of it through the character's public or private thoughts or statements on the matter or through intimate interaction with a character of their same gender.


Very True..

...just too damn scary to be gay? I'm aware of the "lipstick lesbian" and super-fine gay male stereotypes out there. Throw the metrosexual in there too. Walter Langkowski wasn't "just too damn scary" to bed the beautiful Jeanne-Marie Baubier.


He was smart enuff no that it may upset some fans & the gay was the monster lookin-like as well. Thats something Brubaker & Tan didn't take note when he created Darwin (why ever on the look human but the half-black, half-latino).. its just like that.. But I most put the blame of Tan than Bribaker (but I'm not really a fan of his work) because Darwin was atleast this brown/browinish & still had a few human like features  before he started drawing without those features & gery.. But lucky Pad & his art teams came along eventually fix & address the really like Darwin got lighter & etc (his power was unconsciously trying make him fit in around his surrounding.. which was mostly white guys & aliens).. Now he usually look like for the most part :





Every member of Alpha Flight was interesting; however, it seemed to me that Northstar was gaining in fan popularity at a faster rate than the others. I remember confirmed Northstar's homosexuality making t.v. national news reports. Looking back on Jean-Paul's earliest civilian appearances, he did seem aloof of the female attention he received. At the time, I chalked it all up to his being an arrogant ass. Eventually however, I did pick up on certain clues - the interaction between himself and Aurora when they both believed Langkowski to have been killed and his "mysterious illness" that appeared to me to be the A.I.D.S. virus at that time.


Good points..

Recently, I learned that the character Shatterstar is homosexual although his creator says he did not create him as such.


Yeah he bi now & probably the best thing to ever happen to him..


He never been written better imo



These scans are the most attractive illustrations of Bling I"ve seen to date. Like Jessica Jones (who was looking quite fetching legs crossed and wearing bunny slippers) it appears some artists have decided to give Bling a break from the ugly stick.


Very true.. Those last 2 scan of from X-Men Legacy 228-230.. The main plot is Bling! is kidnapped by Emplate (Monet evil older bro) & Rogue try to recuse her..  The art is by Daniel AcuŮa.
The 1st is from  Dark Avengers/Uncanny X-Men: Utopia #1 art by Marc Silvestri..

Really? Worth investigating in my spare time. Marvel doesn't seem shy about hooking up attractive black female characters with white male characters and at least 2 of those white characters have killed their black female lovers: Calypso/Kraven The Hunter - I believe Kraven killed Calypso. Nekra (black, although her skin is chalk-white)/Grim Reaper - Reaper killed Nekra. Wolverine has kissed Storm once or twice. Misty Knight pregnant and engaged to Danny Rand. Celia Reyes/Hank McCoy. Glory Grant (J.J. Jameson's erstwhile secretary) dated the hispanic characters Hector Ayala and Eduardo Lobo


Its was Kraven The Hunter II/Alyosha Kravinoff  the 1st Kraven the Hunter. crazy.bi-polar son who killed Calypso..

BTW Celia Reyes recently kind of rejoined the X-Men



Before that she was seen in NYX : No way home helping out the NYX kids

 

I don't follow the mutants anymore, but I do have a vague awareness of the characters. I see an illustration of Dust without her veil. Never saw that before.


That Scan is of Dust in her room talking to her roommate X-23 with the door close. (so no guy saw without it on in that seen)

He another & also the reason why she wears it



Knowing Marvel's and the x-writer's penchant for getting their white male characters into the pants of all female characters - white/non-white/extraterrestrial/extra-dimensional, etc...- I expect the rest of Dust's clothes will join her discarded veil and she'll find her completely naked body in the arms of some male X-Man not named Nezhno or Prodigy very soon, if not sooner.


 

Now let you what happen here X-23 knock Dust out & took her Outfit because Dust as about to walk into a trap & was going to killed by the Purifiers.. X-23 try to reason with her & tell her it was trap (Dust gotten a call from Jay Guthrie.. her former teammate/a guy she thought about dating.. he went cut after M-day & let the Purifiers cut off his wings because William Stryker  told him his wings "back to God" his friends would be saved & etc.. He later saw Stryker was lieing called Dust right before WS killed him.. WS wanted him to call her & get to come where they were because she is/was the one of more/most powerfully members of the New X-Men & his plan could only work unless she was dead.. X & her talking later after (I think)



But she rarely takes it off/show with off (that is when she not in her sand from) the only other times I think she did was when she crying to Miss Guthrie about Jay death & during the HoM (where never wore at all because she grew in the US in that Universe..)





  Cool. I hope Prodigy doesn't manage to get himself killed off by an x-writer anytime soon.


I think I'd be little shock if they even took the time out to kill him lol..

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Offline Ture

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #140 on: May 17, 2010, 12:59:08 am »
Sorry it took so long to get back to you SI.

In fairness to the Doctor I don't think BP and company constantly trumped Doom, that honor belongs to Reed and family. Tchalla's scrimmages with Victor were usually too abbreviated to be conclusive.

Doom hasn't bought anything new to the game. Nanites are so 20th century.
Wakandans have a plan for Galactus but none for nanites. This is simply poor plotting.

The problem with S'Yan is he did nothing remotely interesting. No hidden stash of weapons, no fight showing his prowess to such a degree that Doom had to try another tactic. S'Yan didn't so much as save BP's mother's life as he just got himself killed. After S'Yan was shot what was preventing her death? Nothing, Doom just didn't want to kill her. Again poor story telling.

Your ideas and enthusiasm are commendable. Palavers with TPG, vibranium tweaked EMPs. I hope Maberry visits this forum. As far as reconciling the continuity conflict within the BP mythos I would credit Reg for that. I think what Maberry is more responsible for is stated rather well by Mr Majestik.

"When I look at T'Challa now, I see a broken failure of a character stumbling from one disaster to another whilst he's betrayed by his god and left having to rely on the help of others to overcome a foe to whom he's on an equal mental footing with. There's something fundamentally wrong with this picture."

I'm still underwhelmed by the upgrades. I think an intelligently written Black Panther supersedes the need for such. I would prefer Tchalla finding some way to neutralize Doom's magic utilizing his resources prior to the upgrade. The way he used his tech and spiritual connections to handle Mephisto. Something like the thrice blessed armor being highly resistant to magic. The one new idea I did like was vibranium's amplification of mystical energies. Imagine the thrice blessed armor made from that. There has to be more panel time devoted to showing Tchalla's abilities being on par with Victor's.  Again Mr Majestik. "Please forgive my scepticism at Marvel's handling of T'Challa and his world."

A pleasure as always SI.
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Offline Battle

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #141 on: May 17, 2010, 07:20:01 am »
Again poor story telling.

I hope Maberry visits this forum.



Yeah, he has been absent from HEF as of late...


Where is Maberry?

Offline Shade

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #142 on: May 17, 2010, 07:57:14 am »
Again poor story telling.

I hope Maberry visits this forum.



Yeah, he has been absent from HEF as of late...


Where is Maberry?

Well he has been posting in the CBR forums.
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Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #143 on: May 17, 2010, 11:24:32 am »
"When I look at T'Challa now, I see a broken failure of a character stumbling from one disaster to another whilst he's betrayed by his god and left having to rely on the help of others to overcome a foe to whom he's on an equal mental footing with. There's something fundamentally wrong with this picture."

See, the trouble is that, nothing in the stories suggests that TíChalla is on an equal footing with Doom. Tony Stark maybe. But not Doom. The character of Doom is on the apex of Marvelís great villains both in canon and in fan esteem. However, TíChalla is not on the apex of Marvelís great heroes both in canon and in fan esteem. There is a far better case to be made for TíChalla fighting out of his weight class than challenging a peer. After all TíChallaís greatest foe is a shirtless steroid abuser. The rest of TíChalla rogues are perennial lackeys when they show up anywhere else. Of course heís going to have trouble with Doom. Doomís actually dangerous.


Offline Ture

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #144 on: May 18, 2010, 12:23:19 am »
When Richards fought Doom in FF#200 he was out of his weight class. When Stark battled Doom in IM#s149-150 he was out of his weight class. This was evident by the struggles and statements each made respectively.
When the Black Panther fought Doom in BP#19 though punched twice and in a choke hold, a conclusive "out of his weight class" could not be determined due to Storm's intervention.

<<After all TíChallaís greatest foe is a shirtless steroid abuser.>> 
That's what they said about Bane and he went on to do great things. ;)

The heaviest criticism levied against Maberry's writing is how inept Tchalla appears. He fights Doom with as much effectiveness as Daredevil.

The actualization of the character's potential and its consistency in story telling is the genesis and foundation of what is to become the character's canon. This starts with the character's origin. A great origin clearly defines the character's most essential core elements.
This is where we find their motivation. Batman's motivation arguably revenge, Spiderman's motivation arguably guilt, Doom's motivation arguably control and Tchalla's motivation arguably obligation. Over the years and with different writers, these motivations evolve and become more complex. These motivations are also able to contextualize into the zeitgeist of the era... war, civil rights, pop culture, etc. So Batman's motivations expands to include control and fear, which then can further expand into mistrust maybe even envy. The tighter the origin, the clearer the motivations that lend themselves to canon.

Tchalla's motivations didn't expand until Priest took the helm. He worked within existing continuity and had a comprehensive grasp of the complexities of Tchalla's motivation. Priest was able to chart its progress. He expanded, adding to obligation, control, fear and burden.  Tchalla began to utilize the resources at his disposal. The Black Panther had reemerged as a formidable and respected superhero.

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Offline Battle

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #145 on: May 18, 2010, 01:34:00 pm »


The actualization of the character's potential and its consistency in story telling is the genesis and foundation of what is to become the character's canon. This starts with the character's origin. A great origin clearly defines the character's most essential core elements.
This is where we find their motivation. Batman's motivation arguably revenge, Spiderman's motivation arguably guilt, Doom's motivation arguably control and Tchalla's motivation arguably obligation. Over the years and with different writers, these motivations evolve and become more complex. These motivations are also able to contextualize into the zeitgeist of the era... war, civil rights, pop culture, etc. So Batman's motivations expands to include control and fear, which then can further expand into mistrust maybe even envy. The tighter the origin, the clearer the motivations that lend themselves to canon.




You have so many ideas, Ture,  I'd love to read what treatment you'd write in a Black Panther comicbook because right now this DOOMWAR series is less satifying to me as a  Black Panther comicbook reader.

Offline 4sake

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #146 on: May 21, 2010, 10:16:57 am »
To me the main prob. with Killmonger is that no one really ever really defined his power levels/how powerfully he really is/how they work.. If it was stated he was 40- 50 class or 50 to 75 class he would be really look at as a bad joke for the most part...
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Offline Francisco

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #147 on: May 23, 2010, 09:49:55 pm »
To me the main prob. with Killmonger is that no one really ever really defined his power levels/how powerfully he really is/how they work.. If it was stated he was 40- 50 class or 50 to 75 class he would be really look at as a bad joke for the most part...
The Lord of N'Jaka village is no joke. (He is bad T'Challa) The thing is he never had the chance to shine outside of the Pantherverse. I think killing him off was a mistake. He should have showed up first in other books fighting other people (and doing well) and then appearing on the BP series as T'Challa's main bad guy.
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Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #148 on: May 24, 2010, 04:44:15 am »
Villains only show up in orther people's if other writers find the character interesting and let's face it, the only BP villain that has become "popular" is Klaw.  The guy is so popular, 2 heroes have "stolen" his power--Songbird and the NW whose name slips my memory right now.

Maybe someone needs to re-establish Klaw as formidable, because people like him.

Offline Seven

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #149 on: May 24, 2010, 01:04:45 pm »
I agree with KIP...bring Klaw back...

But also bring back Killmonger and actually define him...put him on the Raft...let him join the Thunderbolts or something...Marvel's version of Anabisi at the Raft...with 10-15 ton range strength (or more), giving Cage hell...like Anabisi on OZ....None of the Peak human BS...please.  He would be Superhuman...and a genius...and it would show why T'challa had issue with thim...That's part of the issue with T'challa right now...you have fanboys that continue to limit the dude, or place this limatations that they simply do not place on Steve Rogers.


I still think that the best T'challa would simply be Priest upgrade (V-mesh habit, energy daggers, K-card, and the Ghal/Batman thing) with a superhuman upgrade(Speed, Agility, Strength, Reflexes)....put him on Ult. Capt. America level...Just shut up the haters...