Author Topic: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.  (Read 104484 times)

Offline KIP LEWIS

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 5879
    • View Profile
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #195 on: May 31, 2010, 05:50:49 pm »
Haven't there been some indications from Bevoort that BP may end up on the Avengers?  So maybe T won't vanish at end of DW.

There is another possibilty--T'challa returns to Wakanda to repair the nation while Shuri carries on the duties of BP on an international scale.

Offline Princesa

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 2340
    • View Profile
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #196 on: May 31, 2010, 07:28:43 pm »
Haven't there been some indications from Bevoort that BP may end up on the Avengers?  So maybe T won't vanish at end of DW.

There is another possibilty--T'challa returns to Wakanda to repair the nation while Shuri carries on the duties of BP on an international scale.

I don't think he vanishes at all be we're all a tad paranoid at this point. I could see T'Challa as a part of the X Men with this "I am an X Man" stuff. You have three or four title with the same cast, take one like languishing Astonishing and have Xavier re-establish his work with Ororo, T'Challa, Kitty , Omega Sentinel, Draken to start...

Offline KIP LEWIS

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 5879
    • View Profile
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #197 on: May 31, 2010, 07:39:39 pm »
<<Princess: I don't think he vanishes at all be we're all a tad paranoid at this point.>>

Not so much as parnoid but expecting a cliche.

Offline 4sake

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1419
    • View Profile
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #198 on: May 31, 2010, 07:56:24 pm »
<<Princess: I don't think he vanishes at all be we're all a tad paranoid at this point.>>

Not so much as parnoid but expecting a cliche.

I agree
Pull List

Offline Ture

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 2682
    • View Profile
    • Pya Kule Design Group
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #199 on: May 31, 2010, 08:27:11 pm »
I concur with much of what you wrote about the Wakandan/Skrull battle during Secret Invasion, Kip. My point was BP's episode of SI was well received and I heard comments that it was the most entertaining of the crossover event. I did state and do again that all this is debatable.

<<the writer said, Wakanda could not beat the power of Skrull army so he had to remove the Skrull edge. He took away their tech, ignored their shape shifting powers, and magic and had them fight a blade war.>>

I think the writer should have kept all those elements in the story. It would have added texture and complexity to an already fine read. The writer would have had to build on the “magic” of the Panther Spirit to ferret out the Skrull infiltrators and show the Panther Spirit combating Skrull magic. Since the Wakandans developed a means to “shape shift” (or maybe just cloak/alter their appearance) that could have been expanded story wise to being some form of transmitter that prevented all except Super-Skrulls from shape shifting.

I was really hoping to see the Wakandan armada in action. I was hoping for a splash page that rivaled Priest's (actually Sal and Bob's) BP#49. This would have been an excellent opportunity to showcase Wakanda's off world outposts, orbital battle platforms, N'yami battle cruisers and their much vaunted Wakandan army,navy and marines. The writer could have included combative robotics like the Prowlers or even introduced a secret robot army Tchalla had hidden in the techno jungle. The only limits lied in the writer's imagination, and of course how he viewed the BlackPanther and Wakanda.

Tchalla's battle with the Super-Skrulls could have been done much more effectively if he utilized his light and thrice blessed armors. What better time than in an all out war. This was the perfect place to highlight his speed, strength and agility. Show off his martial arts prowess and sword play.

<<And being an unconquered nation isn't as impressive as it sounds. Beating back colonial forces doesn't mean they are military equals to this European Nations. It just means when they have the home field advantage, a small invasion forces can't win. For example, beating a company or 2 of British soldiers doesn't mean they could have beaten the entire British Empire. Or take the Nazi's. Wakanda handly defeats their invasion parties, but that doesn't necessarily mean they could beat the Nazi's in Europe or that they could beat Hitler if he sent everything against Wakanda instead of only a hundred or so men. Now, understand it also doesn't mean they couldn't; I'm not saying that. I'm just saying being "unconquered" is impressive only to a certain degree. Yes, they are unique in Africa, but that just makes them mightiest of Africa, not necessarily the world.If they want to show Wakanda as the mightiest, best warriors, then show them in a war against something more impressive than raiding parties. (And that's all we've ever really seen.)>>

Again I agree.

While Secret Invasion's misfires weren't as blatant they exist none the less. These have been my complaints through out Doomwar. That the writer(s) have been under utilizing Black Panther's talents and resources and have de-powered and dumbed down a truly remarkable character. The only question is why.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 08:28:53 am by Ture »
Aesthetics 6250 A.U. - axis afrakan. expression unlimited.
http://pyakule.com/magazine.html
Special Black Panther Edition and more

Offline 4sake

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1419
    • View Profile
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #200 on: May 31, 2010, 08:30:28 pm »
Haven't there been some indications from Bevoort that BP may end up on the Avengers?  So maybe T won't vanish at end of DW.

There is another possibilty--T'challa returns to Wakanda to repair the nation while Shuri carries on the duties of BP on an international scale.


I don't think he vanishes at all be we're all a tad paranoid at this point. I could see T'Challa as a part of the X Men with this "I am an X Man" stuff. You have three or four title with the same cast, take one like languishing Astonishing and have Xavier re-establish his work with Ororo, T'Challa, Kitty , Omega Sentinel, Draken to start...


That could work (Daken will more than like never a x-man..Erista maybe, but I doubt will ever see Daken on the X-Men & Carey said he has plans for Omega Sentinel, but I'd love to see her on a team again)..

Astonishing - seems to be a either official or unofficial rule that this book must a have famous/known name (both in & out comics) writer. An the only current working for marvel or would work for marvel are Mark Millar (current is with marvel again), Dwayne McDuffie (more than likely would work for marvel), & our forums host Reginald Hudlin (current is with marvel).. BMB said before that he'd like to write the X-Men at some point & since he's marvel top writer so I could see letting him write Astonishing also if he wanted to...

I personally want see what both D-Mc & RH would do with an X-book/X-Men.. :D ;D 8)      

Also Ellis is leaving after this arc, so the book maybe open for a new writer to take over, if marvel doesn't cancel it.

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7158&page=1#Item_0


ASTONISHING X-MEN: probably some delays coming? Short ones? I don't even know anymore. My third arc has been repurposed into the ASTONISHING X-MEN: EXOGENETIC miniseries. That will be my last ASTONISHING X-MEN project.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 08:51:28 pm by 4sake »
Pull List

Offline sinjection1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 623
    • View Profile
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #201 on: June 01, 2010, 02:30:34 am »
We've been taking about where Wakanda is supposed to be for ages here.  Kirby version was in a valley somewhere. I'm fairly cetain that in the 70's it was landlocked (which makes sense) Marvel is keeping its options open (because folks thinks its cool for them be seaside to have a Navy).

"...talking about where Wakanda is supposed to be for ages here." Which goes to one of many points I've attempted to establish about not only the Black Panther/Wakanda, but to other Black characters as well; that point being that those characters are often ill-defined or in a state of incompletion. This works when the character is intended to be enigmatic as was T'Challa and Wakanda when featured in the character's earliest appearances in the Avengers. At that time, he was the most mysterious member of the team - visually exciting, outfitted entirely in black garb with an exotic and mostly-secretive background. However, when the character is used more often enigma becomes problematic. Enigma becomes ambiguity. The enigmatic character, his/her powers, origin, base of operation, et al, are subject to the whims of whatever editor, writer, artist is using the character. Enigma/ambiguity works for characters like Wolverine whose "Snikt" among other things, made him a superstar. For many reasons we could debate forever, the Black Panther has never had the fan interest enjoyed by Wolverine. Enigma worked for T'Challa, but he has not been well served by obscurity/ambiguity.

Wolverine's enigmatic/obscure/incompleteness as a character allowed editors and writers to slap him with a severe case of amnesia. When the layers of that amnesiac fog was cleared from his mind, Wolverine was revealed to be not the ill-tempered, foul, undisciplined fighter he appeared to be in his early days with the X-Men, but actually, a hero who served alongside Captain America in WWII, a Samurai with knowledge and skills far beyond what was evidenced during the early X-Men days when he constantly referred to Ororo as a "broad". Not only that, because of the wild fan reaction the character had received when his popularity took off, Wolverine's mutant healing factor made him virtually immortal, capable of recovering from the most catastrophic injuries imaginable. I understand that Wolverine's body was once ripped in two by the Hulk and his top half went off in search of his bottom half. Why he didn't simply regenerate a new bottom half and save himself the trouble of searching for the pelvis and legs Hulk ripped away and hurled to who-knows-where never made sense to me. The fact is, he was able to do it. It was only when Wolverine regenerated from a single drop of blood his fanatics finally began to say, "Okay, enough is enough." This is how enigma/obscurity/ambiguity served Wolverine.

What do I know of Atlantis? It lies somewhere beneath some vast body of water. Recently, 4Sake shared with me that it lies under the Utopia Island or something like that. Enigmatic, undefined...what did I ever care about it? Not much. The opinion I have of Namor and Atlantis closely mirrors what many members of the LCB-RD have of T'Challa and Wakanda I suspect. Until very recently, I was a big fan of the Inhumans. They were created as enigmatic characters and intended to remain so. Their Great Refuge/Atillan has existed all over the place. What works for Atlantis and Atillan doesn't work for Wakanda. Since the "Jungle Action" days, I'd always understood Wakanda to be land-locked. It wasn't until Priest (admittedly, a run I didn't follow as closely as I should have done) featured a Wakandan navy that it occurred to me that Wakanda must have had some access to the sea. Later, Hudlin had zombified-U.S. Marines launch a sea-borne operation/invasion of Wakanda which confirmed to me that Wakanda had such access. As you say, land-locked Wakanda makes more sense seeing as it is supposed to be located in the middle of 5 other African nations. Having access to the sea however, gives Wakanda options a land-locked nation doesn't have.

Moving Wakanda all over the place doesn't do much to give the place stability. NYC doesn't move around. Hell's Kitchen doesn't move around. The U.S. doesn't move around. Most of Marvel's superhero action takes place in NYC and the U.S. Locations and characters are often solidly defined. This is not always true for the black characters. Luke Cage has steel-hard skin and super strength and yet, Daredevil is able to stun Cage with martial arts strikes and make Cage bleed when often bullets fail to accomplish those things? T'Challa and Wakanda were enigmatic/obscure which rendered them ambiguous. What the LCB-RD chose to accept of T'Challa's characterization was his lack of super strength, the fact that he was genius-level intellect but not as smart as Richards, Stark, or Doom, and that in fights, T'Challa usually gets beat up, cut up, until he's barely able to get up. Hudlin began to change some of that which as Ture has stated so eloquently, was one of his "many mistakes". Hudlin made T'Challa and Wakanda "too perfect" for many of the LCB-RD. Maberry IS writing a story - a story which isn't a Black Panther or even a Shuri story, but is in fact, a Dr. Doom story - which is busting T'Challa back to levels recognized and appreciated by the LCB-RD and even moreso seeing as T'Challa has been humbled and Wakanda invaded, conquered, and bombed back into the stone ages with the rest of Africa. Enigmatic, obscurity, ambiguity works for Wolverine, the X-Men and any other character held in favor by the LCB-RD. Try that stuff with T'Challa however and the LCB-RD will not buy the book and harass the writer.

Mr. MajestiK, I like your style. You are the wiser, calmer, more articulate second coming of sinjection to "that other place". You do me proud.

Offline Battle

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 9547
  • M.A.X. Commander
    • View Profile
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #202 on: June 01, 2010, 01:23:35 pm »
Personally, I wish Deadpool hadn't been used at all. I've never liked the character, don't find him the least bit funny or entertaining and I can't help but feel that T'Challa has been even further diminished by having to enlist his aid.





I agree.

When I saw this character on the cover of the next issue page, I just rolled my eyes and sighed. ::)

Offline Ture

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 2682
    • View Profile
    • Pya Kule Design Group
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #203 on: June 01, 2010, 02:59:21 pm »
Well said Sinjection1.  Defining and evolving Wakanda is a task that would require the writer to have a understanding of historical and contemporary Afraka, the nations, empires and civilizations that did and do comprise it, the ecological and geographical determinants. Of particular need is the thorough comprehension of the people and their culture prior to European, Arab or Asian influence especially in the areas of religion, politics and socialization. It wouldn't hurt to be a little Afrakan centered.

All this is the prerequisite necessary for constructing a fictional sovereign Afrakan country that has never been conquered.

The next phase would require the writer to be imaginative and creative in the attempt to do in fiction what is not readily accessible in reality. The writer must research the nations, empires, civilizations, communities and the people that have actually existed. The writer must then develop the means, strategies, sciences, technologies, spirituality, government and philosophy that would maintain an autonomous society. This is when being Afrakan centered pays off, by facilitating all the references and properly contextualizing them.

The write maybe able to draw inspiration from the never colonized Afrakan nations of Ethiopia and Liberia, from the obscure yet exemplary leadership of Queen Nzinga and the people of Angola. There are many excellent examples of sovereignty and resistance. The independent Afrakan communities like the Maroons of Jamaica and the Quilombos of Brazil provide excellent fodder. Inspiration can be found in the USA with towns like Boley, Oklahoma and the self liberating Gabriel Prosser, Denmark Vessey and Nat Turner. The cultures of Kemet, Nubia, the Akan and the Yorubas can facilitate a connection to antiquity. These are but a few of the many examples that a committed writer can draw from in the attempt to create and give dimension to Wakanda.

<<After all not even Priest was invested in doing a Black Nationalist Power Fantasy.>>  Vic Vega

Maybe he should have been. Fortunately for some (rather intentionally or unintentionally) the Priest Black Panther had some of those undertones. The writer bears the responsibility to remain true to the character's core essence (which I think Priest did). The Black Panther out of origin and evolving necessity would address such issues as Black Nationalism, Civil Rights, Racism, Colonization, Captivity and Enslavement of Afrakans. Apartheid, Ethnic Cleansing, Female Mutilation, Corrupt Governments and the pilfering of Afraka's Natural Resources would also be addressed.

BE WARNED...The writer who does engage in addressing some of these issues, does so at great professional peril.  

<<Hudlin might be the one and only writer who has ever "exalted" T'Challa, the Black Panther and Wakanda and he caught hell for it. Write a strong Black Panther, one that doesn't always agree with the larger comicbook-reading demographic's "status quo" understanding of how that character is to be portrayed and it wounds their sensibilities to the extent that some of them have gone so far as to malign Hudlin as a racist.>> Sinjection1
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 09:06:38 am by Ture »
Aesthetics 6250 A.U. - axis afrakan. expression unlimited.
http://pyakule.com/magazine.html
Special Black Panther Edition and more

Offline Seven

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 2729
  • Haters gonna hate
    • View Profile
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #204 on: June 01, 2010, 03:22:35 pm »
I concur with much of what you wrote Kip about the Wakandan/Skrull battle during Secret Invasion. My point was BP's episode of SI was well received and I heard comments that it was the most entertaining of the crossover event. I did state and do again that all this is debatable.

<<the writer said, Wakanda could not beat the power of Skrull army so he had to remove the Skrull edge. He took away their tech, ignored their shape shifting powers, and magic and had them fight a blade war.>>

I think the writer should have kept all those elements in the story. It would have added texture and complexity to an already fine read. The writer would have had to build on the “magic” of the Panther Spirit to ferret out the Skrull infiltrators and show the Panther Spirit combating Skrull magic. Since the Wakandans developed a means to “shape shift” (or maybe just cloak/alter their appearance) that could have been expanded story wise to being some form of transmitter that prevented all except Super-Skrulls from shape shifting.

I was really hoping to see the Wakandan armada in action. I was hoping for a splash page that rivaled Priest's (actually Sal and Bob's) BP#49. This would have been an excellent opportunity to showcase Wakanda's off world outposts, orbital battle platforms, N'yami battle cruisers and their much vaunted Wakandan army,navy and marines. The writer could have included combative robotics like the Prowlers or even introduced a secret robot army Tchalla had hidden in the techno jungle. The only limits lied in the writer's imagination, and of course how he viewed the BlackPanther and Wakanda.

Tchalla's battle with the Super-Skrulls could have been done much more effectively if he utilized his light and thrice blessed armors. What better time than in an all out war. This was the perfect place to highlight his speed, strength and agility. Show off his martial arts prowess and sword play.

<<And being an unconquered nation isn't as impressive as it sounds. Beating back colonial forces doesn't mean they are military equals to this European Nations. It just means when they have the home field advantage, a small invasion forces can't win. For example, beating a company or 2 of British soldiers doesn't mean they could have beaten the entire British Empire. Or take the Nazi's. Wakanda handly defeats their invasion parties, but that doesn't necessarily mean they could beat the Nazi's in Europe or that they could beat Hitler if he sent everything against Wakanda instead of only a hundred or so men. Now, understand it also doesn't mean they couldn't; I'm not saying that. I'm just saying being "unconquered" is impressive only to a certain degree. Yes, they are unique in Africa, but that just makes them mightiest of Africa, not necessarily the world.If they want to show Wakanda as the mightiest, best warriors, then show them in a war against something more impressive than raiding parties. (And that's all we've ever really seen.)>>

Again I agree.

While Secret Invasion's misfires weren't as blatant they exist none the less. These have been my complaints through out Doomwar. That the writer(s) have been under utilizing Black Panther's talents and resources and have de-powered and dumbed down a truly remarkable character. The only question is why.

I'm going to disagree with KIP on SI. Axel just told Aaron that he wanted a 300 like war story...and that is what he wrote. Yeah he ignored the shape shifting powers...and had both of the knock out there powers...but Wakanda was outnumbered 4 to 1.

Even then the Skrulls are weakend by Vibrianum...so that is a good excuse as to why they could not shift.

Offline KIP LEWIS

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 5879
    • View Profile
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #205 on: June 01, 2010, 03:40:01 pm »
<<I'm going to disagree with KIP on SI. Axel just told Aaron that he wanted a 300 like war story...and that is what he wrote. Yeah he ignored the shape shifting powers...and had both of the knock out there powers...but Wakanda was outnumbered 4 to 1. Even then the Skrulls are weakend by Vibrianum...so that is a good excuse as to why they could not shift. >>

But it didn't.  Skrulls were using shape-shifting powers for infiltration; but they didn't use them for combat, which is the way Skrulls fight hand to hand.

As far as 300 idea, I read Aaron saying that he was the one who wanted to write Braveheart.

Offline Princesa

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 2340
    • View Profile
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #206 on: June 02, 2010, 12:48:56 pm »
Haven't there been some indications from Bevoort that BP may end up on the Avengers?  So maybe T won't vanish at end of DW.

There is another possibilty--T'challa returns to Wakanda to repair the nation while Shuri carries on the duties of BP on an international scale.


I don't think he vanishes at all be we're all a tad paranoid at this point. I could see T'Challa as a part of the X Men with this "I am an X Man" stuff. You have three or four title with the same cast, take one like languishing Astonishing and have Xavier re-establish his work with Ororo, T'Challa, Kitty , Omega Sentinel, Draken to start...


That could work (Daken will more than like never a x-man..Erista maybe, but I doubt will ever see Daken on the X-Men & Carey said he has plans for Omega Sentinel, but I'd love to see her on a team again)..

Astonishing - seems to be a either official or unofficial rule that this book must a have famous/known name (both in & out comics) writer. An the only current working for marvel or would work for marvel are Mark Millar (current is with marvel again), Dwayne McDuffie (more than likely would work for marvel), & our forums host Reginald Hudlin (current is with marvel).. BMB said before that he'd like to write the X-Men at some point & since he's marvel top writer so I could see letting him write Astonishing also if he wanted to...

I personally want see what both D-Mc & RH would do with an X-book/X-Men.. :D ;D 8)      

Also Ellis is leaving after this arc, so the book maybe open for a new writer to take over, if marvel doesn't cancel it.

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7158&page=1#Item_0


ASTONISHING X-MEN: probably some delays coming? Short ones? I don't even know anymore. My third arc has been repurposed into the ASTONISHING X-MEN: EXOGENETIC miniseries. That will be my last ASTONISHING X-MEN project.


I think McDuffie would be especially perfect for an X Men series like Astonishing and he does fit the criteria. Nobody handles a cast better.

Offline sinjection1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 623
    • View Profile
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #207 on: June 03, 2010, 11:24:43 am »
<<How much sense does it make that the ultra-nationalistic Desturi can despise Ororo because she is an "outworlder" - a Kenyan and a "witch" - but at the same time, take as the name of their "Wakanda for Wakandans!" revolution a word from the very "outworlder" Kenyan Swahili culture of T'Challa's wife and their Queen? Maberry couldn't invent a word in the Wakandan language (whatever that language might be) to express the same thing? >>

I suggested the same thing when this came to a head and got yelled at.  OK, I wasn't yelled at but was informed the Swahili is a native Wakandan language.

Thanks, Kip. Now I wonder, how it is that Swahili is a native Wakandan language. How many dialects are spoken in Wakanda? We know how Wakanda is divided by smaller tribes and cults within its borders, but how many ethnic groups comprise the whole of the Wakandan nation? If Swahili is a native Wakandan language, how many of those Wakandans who speak the Swahili dialect have origins not in Wakanda, but from other places like Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania; etc... If the Wakandan culture includes the Swahili language, other dialects from contiguous African nations should be part of the Wakandan language as well. If that's so, why is it that the language of contiguous nations flow in and out of Wakanda but nothing else related to the customs of those nations seems to do so? How is it that unlike the U.S., Wakanda doesn't appear to have a problem with people from contiguous nations slipping into Wakanda and easily blending into those communities where their particular ethnicity and dialect dominates?

 Eager to find answers, I conducted a cursory search of the Web looking for all things Wakandan. I learned from one source that Wakanda is located directly in the middle of Ethiopia, Somalia, Narobia, Uganda, and Kenya. Narobia threw me. I confess. I probably couldn't name all nations on the African continent off the top of my head, many - maybe most - but not all. Nairobi, Kenya I knew of. I looked up Narobia and discovered that it like Wakanda, is a fictional African nation of the MU. It would appear that Wakanda has never been as hidden and as isolated as it has been presented all these years.

Confirmed : Wakandian, Yoruba, Swahili & English.. There a few others also more than likey..

Which again, goes back to my question/statement. The confirmed languages are Wakandian, Yoruba, Swahili & English. What is the Wakandian language? By some estimates, there are over 800 languages spoken on the African continent, but as these languages derive from a smaller "family" of languages, it would seem likely that communication between people speaking different, yet related languages would come fairly easily. Still, many of these languages are spoken only by peoples living in specific regions. I think Ture would be able to expound on or clarify this point...or correct it if I am wrong. If indeed there is a Wakandian language and the "Desturi" say "Wakanda for Wakandans!", why not use a word of the Wakandian language as the name of their initiative? The creators of Star Trek created an entire language for the Klingons so that they could use phrases native and specific to them alone. Would the creation of an African-based Wakandan language be "corny"? What's corny was Roy Thomas writing all the Wakandans speaking as if they were the spawn of William Shakespeare. I believe that the creation of a Wakandan language would go toward lending stability and legitimacy to the nation. It's supposed to be a small, secretive, isolationist nation (so called culturally arrogant) and yet, they would rather use a word of a language spoken by peoples of continguous nations and cultures to define their nationalist movement rather than use a word from their own Wakandian language which we've yet to see in evidence in any book the Black Panther has ever appeared in.
Mr. MajestiK, I like your style. You are the wiser, calmer, more articulate second coming of sinjection to "that other place". You do me proud.

Offline sinjection1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 623
    • View Profile
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #208 on: June 03, 2010, 12:16:25 pm »
The omissions in Doomwar are too blatant to be due to anything but correcting the "mistakes" of Reg's run. The unconquered nation, the marriage to Storm and of course Tchalla's one-upmanship.

Since its inception Reg's Black Panther gave us as a indomitable country. From issue #2 a narrative gave an account of why you don't mess with Wakanda. It was so in your face that it became infectious. The first meeting of the Illuminati was held there. Arguably the best part of the Secret Invasion occurred there. In 2057 “Wakanda is an imperial power steering the course of humanity's future.”

Tchalla and Ororo were happy in their matrimony and lives together. They traveled together as loving couples do. They made love habitually as loving couples do. They had adventures together as only super heroic loving couples can do. Tchalla and Ororo even joined the FF for altruistic reasons, not out of need or want. That's the kind of couple they are.

Tchalla was depicted with respect and being capable of holding his own against XMen, Inhumans, Ironmen, Skrulls and Captain America. This too carried over to other writers as evident in two historic confrontations. The first, a battle between Black Panther and the Silver Surfer and the second involving the Skrulls failed attempt at invading Wakanda. In both cases Tchalla's intellect, strategic and martial capabilities were showcased.

It was during Reg's run that Storm stopped being the sexual fantasy and exotic plaything of the XMen. She became a fully actualized queen of Wakanda and wife of Tchalla. In doing this Reg ruined the illusion that so many falsely surrounded Storm with.

These are the “mistakes” that Doomwar is written to correct.

You may rest assured that Tchalla and Wakanda will pay most dearly for this. Their retribution will be most terrible. Wakanda will no longer be the unconquerable nation. They will no longer be  the most advanced or the richest nation on the planet. They will be plundered and ransacked as have their fellow Afrakan nations. Tchalla will suffer humiliation after humiliation until he is a broken shell of the man he once was. Then and only then will he be banished from this existence. Storm, fair Storm shall be returned to her proper home and station among her fellow mutants. Lonely and feeling abandoned by Tchalla she shall seek comfort in the bed of as many XMen and woman as one could imagine. Shuri because of her ignorance and arrogance in helping Doomwar succeed shall be given a small pittance. After all it was she who bombed Wakanda back to the stone age.

These are the decrees of doom. 

It was during Reg's run that Storm stopped being the sexual fantasy and exotic plaything of the XMen. She became a fully actualized queen of Wakanda and wife of Tchalla. In doing this Reg ruined the illusion that so many falsely surrounded Storm with.

A careful reading of any one of Ture's posts will knock the scales from the eyes of anyone blinded to the irrefutable facts of how T'Challa, Ororo, Black comicbook characters, and Black comicbook creators are often perceived and "received" by the larger comicbook-reading demographic, the LCB-RD. All we need do is compare what Hudlin did with the characters Ororo and T'Challa to what happened to these two characters once they were "Ultimized".

Hudlin outraged many LCB-RD by removing Ororo from her ambiguous, under-appreciated role with the X-Men and made her wife of T'Challa, Queen of All Wakanda, and as Prof X put it to Storm on her WEDDING OF THE CENTURY day, the most important mutant on the planet. Before Hudlin rescued Ororo, she was initially so "ignorant" of civilized customs that she would in her early days with the X-Men, shock them into embarrassment by going about nude. Jean Grey had to tutor Ororo on the propriety of wearing clothes and took her out shopping to ease her into the concept, before the two were attacked by Vindicator of Alpha Flight. Storm then went from seemingly the asexual character who was content to water her plants in her attic-level quarters at the X-Mansion, to possibly bisexual. I've yet to see any evidence of sensual contact with Yukio or any other female character, but many x-geeks adamantly contend that Ororo did have such contact with Yukio. Ororo was involved in lip-locks with a very "patriotic" sampling of male characters, meaning those characters were Red, White, and Blue, but NEVER Black. When Hudlin's MARRIAGE OF THE CENTURY became reality, those "RoLo" shippers howled for months, and many continue their howling to this day.

But those shippers got their "RoLo" in the Ultimate Marvel format, didn't they?

Ultimate Ororo is not Kenyan, but Moroccan. More than once, I've seen LCB-RD fanatics, usually x-geeks, claim that Ororo is not Black. Morocco is not Sub-Saharan Africa (Black Africa), but "upper-Sahara" (white/Arab Africa). The first thing they did when they "ultimized" Ororo was to make her "caucasoid" while maintaining the exotic appearance which has made Storm one of the most physically attractive female characters in the entire comicbook industry. There are those who will say, "What about black Nick Fury?" What about him? After re-creating Ororo as a "white African", she then began a series of "relationships" with white characters. Hank McCoy was first, Angel was next and then...the "RoLo" crowd finally got what they were looking for. Ororo was attracted to Wolverine and pursued him shamelessly. She was Wolverine's anytime/anyplace booty, but Wolverine rejected Ororo. Wolverine had the hots for Jean Grey. This is pretty close to what many x-geeks would have liked to see happen with 616 Ororo. Hudlin had a better idea.

Mr. MajestiK, I like your style. You are the wiser, calmer, more articulate second coming of sinjection to "that other place". You do me proud.

Offline BmoreAkuma

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 2237
    • View Profile
Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #209 on: June 03, 2010, 05:53:12 pm »
After reading all 14 pages, I finally decided to post. Great post ladies and gents. It has been 5 years since I started reading comics again (thanks to hudlin) and well it is a decent ride. But honestly I may not come back once my DD subs is up. I like DnA but I just didn't have the time to read. Nothing so far has intrigued me. The many potential greatness of BP is no longer there and i grow tired of the bendisverse. I need something new and refreshing to read. The same old rehash of 40 plus years of continuity bores me. For example, spider man was great imo once he don the black suit again. He was on the run and he was pissed. The "angry and frustrated" part of parker I enjoyed. Even the robotic suit he had was nice and something fresh. But too many people didn't want a change and were complaining. Marvel just lost a "new reader" in me. I just can't do it.
With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.