Author Topic: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.  (Read 99110 times)

Offline Ture

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #165 on: May 29, 2010, 07:35:50 am »
The sci-fi fans I mentioned are ok Kip, as the majority like DS9. The few who don't are entitled to an incorrect opinion  ;). I didn't go into a lot of depth about it but fortunately Emperorjones did. My gratitude and praise to the emperor, I could not have worded it better.
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Offline 4sake

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #166 on: May 29, 2010, 12:37:52 pm »

I can't help but feel that some white fans don't like Sisko because of Avery Brooks. I think there is a feeling that Brooks is too remote, that he's not all ra-ra about DS9 and that turns some fans off. He's not dissing the show, but he's not waxing poetic about it either, IMO. And when a black person isn't smiling and going 110% in cheerleading something, it might make some white people feel that Brooks has an attitude. I also do feel that Sisko being black turned off some fans. They might not even realize why they don't 'get' Sisko, but I think its because of the inability of some whites to identify with a black character. They can't see blacks as equals, as fully dimensional human beings. Some might be able to admire physical feats or singing or blacks abilities to entertain them, but they still aren't putting these people on the same plane as they are. And for the intellectual blacks, they are often seen as 'exceptions'.

black person isn't smiling and going 110% in cheerleading something, it might make some white people feel that Brooks has an attitude.


Yep, I've seen alot of that kind of thinking on few comics broad I've posted on.. Like black fans should be just happy/down right joyfully that T'Challa, Cage, & etc even app. on panel.. How dare we complain if they well written or not or drawn well or not or etc.. Because its a medium (what they mean is a medium for them.)..

They can't see blacks as equals, as fully dimensional human beings. they still aren't putting these people on the same plane as they are.

Same ways for many of the characters :

I seen a poster say basically if Cage didn't have his powers that he would a bum barley fit to pump said poster gas.. While a guy Steve R would be same with or without powers.. some how I think going from like 5'8-5'10 98-125 pounds to 6'2/6'3 helped  220-240 help Steve a whole alot because without his powers he more than likely be a struggle artist (Steve like to drawn/doing art)..But that just me..

That its ridiculous, must have some something to with affirmative action, forced, race baiting, reverse racism for T'Challa to consider one of the smartest ppl in the marvel u by marvel (top 8 ) & being just as smart reed & doom when SL & JK created him as atleast smart as if not smarter than Reed: making him 3rd smartest at a minimum.. Personally I find it petty ''funny''  Tony S., Hank Pym, B.Banner & etc have all written as getting smarter over the years while T'Challa got dumb down for a while..  Maybe some writers (like some fans) just found to hard to believe a person of color be that smart or actually equal..

Also that Jericho Drumm becoming Sorcerer Supreme had something to with Obama becoming Prez in real life lol... :D Even thought hints/seeds of Dr. Strange losing the tilte/role started around off & on around 2005..   

Also I find it ''interesting'' the only writer I ever seen out rite accused as raciest/of racism by fans just happen all be RH, CJP, D-Mc & G.Pak (all non-whites 3 Black & 1 Asian).. The one white writer I seen some indirectly accused as being raciest/of racism by fans is BMB because his use of Cage & Doc V..
 
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Online Emperorjones

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #167 on: May 29, 2010, 01:17:54 pm »
Thanks guys. What I noticed about some responses to Sisko was that him being proud to be black was considered racist, and him being cognizant of his racial heritage as being unnecessary, something to get over, or that Brooks had a chip on his shoulder. I can only chalk this up to a view I personally think many whites hold that black people truly have nothing to be proud of, unless its tied to them in some fashion.

On the surface there might be a fear, I don't really believe in white guilt, of talking about the past will indict white people and its something they don't want to hear, because it interferes with the wonderful image beamed about white people from almost every segment of the media. Slavery, segregation, etc. is something that has to be seen as 'ancient' history and something only done by a very small segment of white extremists. If you hear some white folks tell it, no one white benefited from slavery, all of their ancestors came from elsewhere or came after slavery. And black people shouldn't exhibit any sense of anger over the past. Which is funny that it's perfectly okay to cheer Braveheart or the Patriot loping off the heads of Englishmen, or Jews blowing the Nazis to hell, but I doubt we would get the same reaction if there was a movie about Nat Turner or the Haitian revolution. Of course the only way those movies could be made in America was to base them around a white character-real or imagined.

The feeling I get from some of the sighing about black history is that black people should just forget about it some white people might say or think, and blacks should be happy they are here. Because our pain isn't as worthy as others, our experiences are valued less, as have been our lives.


« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 01:20:18 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline 4sake

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #168 on: May 29, 2010, 04:22:56 pm »
Sinjection1, what I am trying to emphasize about the Fantastic Four, XMen and Deadpool is that everything they did could have been done by the Black Panther or some other Wakandan. Some examples follow.


True the only thing the (X-Men or Deadpool) that a one of the other Wakandan characters (not name T'Challa can/could do) is maybe bring more sale/marve more money with 1 of the reasins their here. But key to bring in guest stars is balance (between sales & in story reasons & etc)

Tchalla could have prevented Shuri from committing suicide by Namor. That would have at least given Tchalla an excuse to converse with Namor.  The video ruse could have been handled by Taku, thus reminding Shuri and her scientist N'iix why Tchalla and his core of specialist are the best.


I agree & another key charchers missing form all this is Namor, I don't know wasn't going with marvel, but if anyone should be here (in DoomWar) its him.. 

Tchalla could have developed a means to teleport them into the palace or at least show them a secret passage.
I think Kurt was one only X-Men who was used petty well, but its goes back the balance where you don't have the guest showing so the main stars. So yeah T"Challa showing them a secret passage in the place he build would better, but ALOT of the story seem rush. So who know maybe he did.. Tie-in wouldn't help this story out alot..   

In the fight against Doom's foot soldiers in Doomwar #4, the FF with their much vaunted powers were not very effective. Sue was overwhelmed by two Doombots 3rd panel page 2. Ben was knocked out cold by page 4 and Johnny had to be saved by Storm page 1.
 

This I don't mind villain gota win some of the early rounds in a battle/war for the story to work..

The XMen. Ahhhh, the XMen. They did some cutting, they did some punching, they even blocked a few bullets. Every little bit helps I guess. I personally think Shuri and the Dora Milaje looked more impressive. Again what the XMen brought to the war the Wakandans could match, even an underwritten Tchalla did as much.
For the most part X-Men were also very missed used in this series also (atleast so far)..

1st you want to break want break Storm out of jail & you don't bring Gambit (who she has a closer friendship with that Kurt & Logan.. atleast imo)- 1st misuse or should I say lack of use (It helps in pick guest stars that make most in story sense to in place)

In Both BP (Volume 3) & Wolverine (Volume 3)- Logan & T'Challa have been shown to respect each other, atleast like each where maybe one day be friends (I'd say T'Challa has more of a relasionship with Logan then he has with John S... but that just me. Not saying he doesn't like Hohn,but just that they really don't have anything to talk about or anything that make then be friends that than T'Challa being friends with other 3 members of the FF) - But they barley talked acted in DoomWar.. Also we didn't she  any other the X-Men (Kurt, Peter, Logan & Ororo talk after she was freed.) But like said the couldn't help this series alot because a few thing seem very rushed.. - So misuse # 2 (Guest are supposed to remind the read just how cool/bad ass/what they like/respect about main stars & should atleast be shown taking care of the goal/task they were brought in the story in the 1st place)

Piotr - After Magik/Illyana, is Ororo his closer thing to having living family (his parents dead & his older bro crazed & dead atleast for the most part).. They called age other sister & brother many time in story & She see him as her young brother (Also its been theorized by some fans that she may see him as kind of replacement for more than likely un-born young brother or sister died in at same time her mother & father did. (Dave Cockrum said N'Dare was pregnant when she die).. She could told Ororo that she was, but it just one of those things that was never followed up on.. But back to point - Misuse # 3 because barely talks or saying anything about Ororo & his relationship or beat the hole hell out the villains (the only time Piotr really turns it on/written as being 100 class when he either really pissed or when his fam is in danged) & he should both here & not show as either.. Just same old same old.. He stand their & says DA.



Kurt- Was used petty well- His only misuse just like Logan & Peter is not showing reacting with Ororo once snice she become freed.. 

The FF are in the story because they have a good in story reason (dislike Doom & he's trying to do something really evil, 3 out of 4 are good friends of T'Challa/ Reed & Sue consider T'Challa & Ororo family/ Sue & Ororo have some what become friends.)



The Dora Milaje army was never mentioned during Reg's run. Aneka never made an appearance. Are these elements making the story less clear?


I don't know if they make less clear or not, but Aneka is basically (imo) a cooler looking of version of the woman for CJP that QDJ trian with for an issue or 2. A DM Army was mention per say or out right, but they ill hints/seeds (imo) of one because of their concept (base on a real life Mino/Dahomey Amazons), also there were atleast 3/4 of them during RH.. The most at one show on a panel during his run was I think 4 DM.. I'd say their were atleast 4 (maybe 6 at the most different ones) show RH 1st BP run & D-Mc FF & RH 2nd BP run.. Also I petty sure those 2 from worlds apart weren't the same as ones RH & DM'C used..   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahomey_Amazons

Hey Vic, I have to co sign with 4sake on your first comment. You are correct that Tchalla has removed the Hatut Zeraze from Wakanda but  Hunter being the loyalist fanatic he is, would most definitely have involved himself in something as serious as the war with Doom.


Hunter petty much not in this because no 1 all that interested in writing him or about him (it petty much the same with T'Challa other dead bro. Jakarra, T'Shan, & Josh Itobo the 4 petty much serve the same role.. Un-mind T'Challa/think they rule better, there only difference is the level a-holeness they are willing to go.)

Personally never cared to much for the character himself (Hunter), but I thought the concept (a young T'Chaka & N'Yami adopted an orphan out lander) was ok idea.. (I wouldn't prefer he was half black/had one black birth parent or atleast had a Wakanda name..) Now if got revamp a lil & then brought back I think he''d work better also (giving a lil more info what kind of ppl his birth parents were where they were from, his time with N'Yami & etc)

Good points about Killmonger 4sake. Excellent breakdowns on the inconsistencies.


Glad you think so..

In regards to the ritual I was trying to suggest some sophistication about how an advance nation such as Wakanda would choose its leadership. It would seem illogical if only the best physical fighter was chosen to rule.


True, but I don't being a genius is a requirement/should be a requirement.. Not saying you if can barely  read & write can be BP either.. I think they have to be of average intellect atleast.. I thinking maybe a balance of fighting abilities, brains, leadership ability, charisma, passion, selflessness/unselfishness, approval of the Bast & maybe few other things..

When I complete the outline on the five levels I will post them.


Cool  8)
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Offline 4sake

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #169 on: May 29, 2010, 05:40:02 pm »
"Giving a Power Ring to John Stewart is like giving an old lady the keys to the Batmobie." I happened upon this ridiculous comment while scanning opinions posted to that other forum. The Green Lantern "fan" who owns the comment either didn't read or did read and chose to disregard Hal Jordan's observations that of Earth's 4 Green Lanterns: Stewart, Kyle Rayner, Guy Gardner, and himself (Golden Age Lantern Alan Scott was not mentioned) John Stewart's Ring creations are the most sound and solid; in addition, Hal Jordan declares John Stewart to be the best flyer in the entire Green Lantern Corps, an intergalactic organization comprised of thousands of members.

And yet, in the opinion of more than a few members of the larger comicbook-reading demographic, John Stewart is somehow less deserving than Rayner and Gardner of wielding a Power Ring. Many of those same members are likely of the opinion that Jericho Drumm's ascension to Sorcerer Supreme is just so much Affirmative Action nonsense placing the under-qualified Drumm in a position best served by the white Dr. Stephen Strange. I see DC's character Firestorm is once again a white male, the black male relegated to the subordinate position/condition.

Any opinion holding that John Stewart is unqualified to wield a Power Ring obviously has no basis in fact. Hal Jordan - who most might claim to be the greatest Green Lantern - has conceded that Stewart's Ring constructs are more solid than his own and that Stewart is not only superior to him as a flyer, but is the best of the entire Corps. That "fan's" opinion stems from the type of prejudice and bias which all too often is the basis for the obnoxious, inaccurate, stupid comments which serve to diminish not only John Stewart, but Doctor Voodoo, Blade, Bishop, and many other Black comicbook characters.

T'Challa, the Black Panther and Wakanda have perhaps suffered most of all. The character has been misused and maligned throughout his existence. Keep bringing it strong, Ture. Your comments as always, are right on point.

I petty much agree with this..

Interesting post Ture. I made a rant over at cbr pretty much about the same thing...  ;)

I'm got to admit that I'm almost done with Marvel. I do salute those African writers who have tried to bring Marvel into the 21st Century, despite the constant problems which came there way. But it is always difficult to engage and change the personalty of a thing, when it was devised to uphold and reinforce another peoples culture.

It's a shame really that the Milestone effort from a few years age was not able to get more fans. Because when it comes down to how we are presented in this medium. The only way we are going to see the whole gamut of the African experience, is when a book is written by a intelligent African Man or Woman ( and I  am not talking about those of us who have developed "isms"  >:( )


Good points.. IMO the best way to save/fix the BP book is to get Dwayne McDuffie or Jason Aaron or both co-writing it with some good rotating artist (Ken Lashley, Scot Eaton, Jefte Palo, Diogenes Neves, Paul Pelletier, Koi Turnbull, also bringing back Mark Bright, Sal Velluto & Bob Almond would be good atleast for a arc or 2 each, also Frank Cho or & Mike Choi & or Mark Brooks would be great).. Not that J.Maberry isn't a good/ok writer but he turn off BP core fan base with writing (& with very very new readers jumping on the book  & the only way to get said fan base back & to maybe add some more is with a new writer/writers.

Also having the 1st arc  be about T'Challa becoming BP again & fixing Wakanda, T & O interacting with each other, reminding readers T'Challa friendships/relationship with Iron Man, Steve R., Cage, Ben G., & Wolverine (Also reminding readers friendships/relationship with Doc.V, Sceptre, Namor, Falcon, Ka-Zar & Deathlok would be good also).

A few Ororo centric issues (reminders friendships/relationship with Gambit, Kitty, Piotr, Magneto, Jubilee, Rouge & Cannonball), Having her react to Kurt death (maybe T'Challa makes Kurt birthday holiday in Wakanda), Also more of her & Sue friendship/relationship .. Her leading the Wakanda forces in battle both with & without T'Challa..

Ororo getting know/maybe becoming friends/associates with other woman in the Marvel U (Black Widow, Ms.Marvel/WarBird, Sceptre, Misty Knight,  Dagger & etc) . ... But that just my imo..

An once you taking care of Main characters you throw a few subplots in the books for supporting cast.
In BP case you need rebuild/make the supporting cast a stable & consistent again..Which would be using characters that fit/set role in the story & bring back one that still have role/need for in the book, but that doesn't mean getting rid of the new charterers either (the members of the pride, the concept of the DM army & etc) it just less focus on them more focus on the main characters & the supporting one who actually a some what of a fan base...

Shuri - is a great characters but she can't make book hold readers (especially the ways comics are sale'in  in this day & age ), but with push marvel gave her she move up from 4-6 best supporting character in atleast the 3 most important in the BP book..  So she need some important subplots that can/could turn into main plots a Shuri centric issue after like every 3-12 T'Challa & Ororo centric would be good/great imo..  Next bring back & used other supporting characters who some what have fan base & have history in the BP myths (S'yan, Zuri, QDJ, The DM, Queen Mom & N'Gassi)

Next revamp petty much all ppl old villains form McGregor ( :P ) run (Madame Slay,Sombre, Lord Karnaj & Salamander K'ruel. ) Bring in new ones like Moses Magnum, A new leader/ruler of the Lion Cult/Tribe, A new Leader of Crocodile Cult, & etc.. Revamp both Killmonger & White Wolf bring them back having Killmonger act T'Challa in a differentway them usual & WW back because T'Challa & Shuri unbanned the Hatut Zeraze turn they into something more than a wetworks group as act in honoring their father.. (just idea).. Also bring the Deviants, Malice/Nakia & Kiber The Cruel back .. Also Graviton, Damon Dran, Jinku the Vava witchdoctor, Solarr/Silas King, & a modern Carnivore/Andreas Zorba would be interesting.      

The setting - Split time between Wakanda, NY & other places in world similar to CJP run..

Reminds Readers (both fans & haters)- that Wakanda is a WORLD POWER in the Marvel U.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 08:13:08 pm by 4sake »
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Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #170 on: May 29, 2010, 05:56:30 pm »
<<I agree & another key charchers missing form all this is Namor, I don't know wasn't going with marvel, but if anyone should be here (in DoomWar) its him.. >>

I said something similar before DW started.  T was hurt while visiting Namor; he would take personal offense that Doom attacked his visitor.

Offline 4sake

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #171 on: May 29, 2010, 08:13:48 pm »
<<I agree & another key charchers missing form all this is Namor, I don't know wasn't going with marvel, but if anyone should be here (in DoomWar) its him.. >>

I said something similar before DW started.  T was hurt while visiting Namor; he would take personal offense that Doom attacked his visitor.

Yeah I remember  :D  8)
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Online Emperorjones

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #172 on: May 30, 2010, 03:21:56 am »
I also co-sign on Namor. I wondered where he was. Namor and FF should definitely be involved Doom War, even more than the X-Men, despite their ties to Storm. The one X-Man that should definitely be a part of it is Nezhno IMO.

Offline sinjection1

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #173 on: May 30, 2010, 11:59:16 am »
As far as Wakanda’s “cultural arrogance” goes, that whole “we hate outsiders lots” thing has hurt them more than once (see Achebe, Killmonger, etc).

This so-called "cultural arrogance" was apparent in Don McGregor's Panther's Rage depending upon the interpretation of any individual reader of the story, at least IMO. You see, I now wonder if Maberry isn't writing more to the perceptions many in the larger comicbook-reading demographic might have regarding Wakanda's reluctance in welcoming strangers or foreign customs/cultures. Mjumbak was a simple Wakandan farmer. He wasn't culturally "arrogant", nor was his wife (widow). However, Mjumbak's wife didn't try to hide her disapproval of T'Challa's romance with the "outworlder" Monica Lynne.

Are Wakandan's culturally arrogant or are they rather, a truly xenophobic people? "Wakanda is a tiny nation in the midst of a vast continent that has never known true peace. Our culture, our art, our technology--none of it would exist, noe of it could have survived were we not willing to defend it, fiercely and decisively." - Shuri, Princess Regent of Wakanda/the Black Panther. I didn't detect "cultural arrogance" in Shuri's statement.

Arrogance as I've seen it defined is an exaggeration of one's self worthiness/importance accompanied by a rude and overbearing air. The Wakandans are proud of their nation, their culture, their independence, their self-reliance. I have never seen in any comicbook featuring the Panther or everyday Wakandans exhibiting true arrogance. Wakandans have traveled the world and befriended peoples of different nations, cultures, races. At least one of those Wakandans managed to become impregnated by a Russian. It seems to me that a person from an arrogant culture - one who believes themselves unmatched by any other in the world - wouldn't ever entertain the notion intimate intercourse with a member of a culture considered to be inferior. Killmonger recruited the "outworlder" Horatio Walters into his army of insurrection as a trusted lieutenant.

IMO then, the Wakandans aren't culturally arrogant, they are xenophobic; they are mistrusting of foreigners and for very good reason. Throughout their history as a sovereign nation, Wakanda has had to repel invaders intent on conquering them, destroying their way of life and stealing their resources. Wakanda's great King T'Chaka was just one of many thousands of Wakandans to die defending their right to exist. Xenophobia does not equal cultural arrogance.

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While I can see that Black Panther fans would be raw because the character is not being exalted in the way BP fans like, but the Doomwar story is a good one nonetheless. After all, its not like Doc Doom is some ordinary mark. He’s one of the most feared villains in Marvel. This is what many on the net seem to be ignoring. Unlike B.P. other foes, Doom is considered dangerous in every book Marvel published and he is never defeated outright by anybody save Reed Richards (and Squirrel Girl).

Hudlin might be the one and only writer who has ever "exalted" T'Challa, the Black Panther and Wakanda and he caught hell for it. Write a strong Black Panther, one that doesn't always agree with the larger comicbook-reading demographic's "status quo" understanding of how that character is to be portrayed and it wounds their sensibilities to the extent that some of them have gone so far as to malign Hudlin as a racist. Meanwhile in a recent Daredevil one-shot featuring a "fight" between he and Luke Cage, Daredevil is able to stun Luke Cage with martial arts strikes and draw blood. Daredevil, a character who has no physical super-strength is able to do Cage what usually only bullets and those characters possessed of physical super-strength might achieve. How many members of the larger comicbook-reading demographic regard Daredevil's success against Cage as bad writing or something that is beyond the scope of Daredevil to accomplish?

T'Challa has often been written as beaten to a pulp before he is able to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. This has been true whether his opponent has been Killmonger, the Azanian Super-soldiers, the kkk. The time this didn't occur was the Hudlin-penned story which had T'Challa and Wakanda repelling an invasion by Klaw, the Rhino, Batroc, the Radioactive Man, and the fake Black Knight...not to mention the U.S. Needless to say, DOOMWAR is more to the liking of the larger comicbook-reading demographic than was T'Challa's/Wakanda's victory over Klaw and his minions. Dr. Doom is no tougher than any "top echelon" villian in the MU. T'Challa decked Mephisto and ripped the heart from his chest. Luke Cage and Cloak both defeated Dr. Doom in his own home. The only reason Doom is considered as so dangerous is because he has had the benefit of being written as such. Write T'Challa in that same manner and risk the wrath of many in the larger comicbook-reading demographic complaining that the Black Panther is "too perfect".

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This fight is not all that one sided.

 :) Vic, every Muhammad Ali/Joe Frazier fight were not one-sided affairs. Still, Joe always emerged from those battles looking the loser, even in the one fight he happened to win. Right now I'd say that Joe gave a better account of himself in every fight he waged against The Greatest than T'Challa has given to this point against Doom. Maberry is allowing Doom to land haymakers left and right, while T'Challa has been covering, weakly counterpunching and most recently, lectured by his younger sister on how to properly fight a war. Like Ali, Doom has been catching most of our heroes blows on his arms and shoulders, rendering them mostly ineffective. I can't even say T'Challa's counterpunches because so far, T'Challa hasn't done much in the way of fighting against Doom --- he's left the fighting to the women of Wakanda it seems). Meanwhile, it's been our heroes who have been catching all of the lumps.             
Mr. MajestiK, I like your style. You are the wiser, calmer, more articulate second coming of sinjection to "that other place". You do me proud.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #174 on: May 30, 2010, 12:19:14 pm »
<<At least one of those Wakandans managed to become impregnated by a Russian. It seems to me that a person from an arrogant culture - one who believes themselves unmatched by any other in the world - wouldn't ever entertain the notion intimate intercourse with a member of a culture considered to be inferior. >>

Tell that to millins of racist men who had no problem bedding Black woman.

But I think the comment had more to do with the fact that because the Wakandan have never been beaten has given them an arrogance that they never can be beaten. 

But in a general prediction, I suspect that JM plans for BP to pull a "hail mary" victory.

Offline sinjection1

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #175 on: May 30, 2010, 01:17:58 pm »
<<At least one of those Wakandans managed to become impregnated by a Russian. It seems to me that a person from an arrogant culture - one who believes themselves unmatched by any other in the world - wouldn't ever entertain the notion intimate intercourse with a member of a culture considered to be inferior. >>

Tell that to millins of racist men who had no problem bedding Black woman.

Yes indeed. 2 such come immediately to mind: Thomas Jefferson and Strom Thurmond. Jefferson was a vile and hateful racist. He hated Black people to the core. He once said Black men lust after white women in much the same way an orangutan (ape), lusts after the black woman--an example of the male of an inferior type lusting for the female of the more highly-evolved species. I believe most of us are somewhat aware of the legacy of racist virulence left by Thurmond. Jefferson was said by some who believe he had sex with Sally Hemmings (many believe Jefferson did not father Hemming's children) that he didn't see her as a black female but as biracial, the white aspect of her humanity made her appealing to him while her black aspect was repugnant to him. Thurmond seduced a 16 year old black female domestic and fathered her child. It's true. Racist white men have had access to black females in this nation for the centuries we've been here.

Nezhno's situation may be different. Until we learn the nature of the relationship between his Wakandan mother and his Russian father we won't know the circumstances of his conception. What we do know is that as written, Nezhno's Wakandan mother despises and disowns Nezhno as her son. This seems to follow the "campaign" if you will, if some writers depicting Wakanda or at least some Wakandans, as being "culturally arrogant", racist, and absolutely intolerant of all humanity outside Wakandan borders. It's as if Marvel's editors and writers aren't satisfied with the Wakandans being a culture of xenophobes, they seem determined to make them a culture of misanthropes. Yet, there are Wakandans who would allow themselves to be basely used by Dr. Doom?

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But I think the comment had more to do with the fact that because the Wakandan have never been beaten has given them an arrogance that they never can be beaten.
 

On the other hand, the Wakandans have come close to defeat so often that their xenophobia could very well stem from their fear that one of the invaders would "get lucky". Doom was able to find Wakandan traitors to facilitate his "conquest" of Wakanda. How many members of the larger comicbook-reading demographic are asking about the "how", the "why" and the "wherefore" of Doom's ability to achieve this? Not many I would guess. They're too busy enjoying the spectacle of Doom kicking T'Challa's behind to care about the "small stuff".

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But in a general prediction, I suspect that JM plans for BP to pull a "hail mary" victory.

I am beginning to harbor a suspicion that T'Challa will "disappear" into some other dimension long enough for him to be presumed "dead", for Wakanda to reform under a new ruler and a new "more open" reality --- one that will see foreigners crawling over the Wakandan carcass like flies on carrion, and long enough for Storm to leave Wakanda, rejoin the X-Men and become the plaything --sexual and otherwise-- of the editors, writers and characters there. After this has happened, T'Challa will return to find a completely different Wakanda and his Queen impregnated by Wolverine or in a hot sex affair with Yukio.
Mr. MajestiK, I like your style. You are the wiser, calmer, more articulate second coming of sinjection to "that other place". You do me proud.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #176 on: May 30, 2010, 01:24:58 pm »
<<I am beginning to harbor a suspicion that T'Challa will "disappear" into some other dimension long enough for him to be presumed "dead">>

That part I am leaning toward as well.  He will trap Doom and be trapped himself.  Only Doom will get free before the year is out and unless BP does the same, Doom will prove his superority (even if he had nothing to do with his escape.)

Offline Jay

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #177 on: May 30, 2010, 03:21:53 pm »
<<I am beginning to harbor a suspicion that T'Challa will "disappear" into some other dimension long enough for him to be presumed "dead">>

That part I am leaning toward as well.  He will trap Doom and be trapped himself.  Only Doom will get free before the year is out and unless BP does the same, Doom will prove his superority (even if he had nothing to do with his escape.)

That never works.

But yeah, I will add to the saying .... where is Namor heck come to think of it. The X-men was mysteriously absent when the BP forces and the FF was taking that beat down from Doom.
"You're gonna go out, and look, for, a job. The word today is...'job'. Jay Oh Bee...y'hear me?"

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #178 on: May 30, 2010, 04:31:07 pm »
@EJ: The knock on DS 9 was that the first 2 seasons weren't that good. But when it got good it was brillant.

To be fair I can see where a HARD CORE TREKKIE would have problems with the show, seeing as 1)it is NOT about the federation as a utopia. They screwed over the Maquis, they have a secret service that spies on its own citizens and  they built warships like the Defiant. B)Sisko unlike every other Starship captain is NOT a cultural assimilationist he doesn't change Bajor, Bajor changes him.

There are reasons ths stuff would discomfit the typical Star Trek fan. The classic show is practically a love letter to imperialism.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 06:22:29 pm by Vic Vega »

Offline Seven

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Re: Doomwar and the many "mistakes" of Reginald Hudlin.
« Reply #179 on: May 30, 2010, 05:11:05 pm »
Great Convo going on here.

Like I said on the other board...T'challa fans will not be happy with Doomwar. I personally think Doomwar is fine...I like it. But I don't like T'chlla's role. He is simply not a character that can be pushed a side like Tony Stark or Steve Rogers...who have tons and tons of good comics featuring them.

As Sin pointed out...T'challa was pretty much ruined for 30 or so years...I loved Priest Run with the Batman/Ghal angel...and what I loved best about Hudlin run...is that T'challa was not second fiddle...hell during that run you had Jason Aaron out line for other writers how to tackle him (T'challa)...just combine Priest and Hudlin Panther's and T'challa is fine.

I like Mr. Maberry a lot...he very talented. But I believe that the mandate to push Shuri and the pushing the comic to 6 issues has hurt the event. Doomwar was supposed be about T'challa taking on Doom. That is the way it was talked about, then it has suddenly changed over the past few months. I give him major props for getting him Enhanced...but so far it's been meaningless...

So I meanly blame Marvel. T'challa should still be the Panther now...then he could have walked away from the title *AFTER*...and Shuri could have proved herself during Doomwar and took the title then...or something. But they did all that after Hudlin's 6 issues.


4 Sake is right...lots of T'challa fans are turned off.