Author Topic: Arizona no like Latinos  (Read 34556 times)

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #60 on: May 01, 2010, 06:28:30 pm »
If Only Arizona Were the Real Problem
 By FRANK RICH
Published: May 1, 2010

DON’T blame it all on Arizona. The Grand Canyon State simply happened to be in the right place at the right time to tilt over to the dark side. Its hysteria is but another symptom of a political virus that can’t be quarantined and whose cure is as yet unknown.

If many of Arizona’s defenders and critics hold one belief in common, it’s that the new “show me your papers” law is sui generis: it’s seen as one angry border state’s response to its outsized share of America’s illegal immigration crisis. But to label this development “Arizona’s folly” trivializes its import and reach. The more you examine the law’s provisions and proponents, the more you realize that it’s the latest and (so far) most vicious battle in a far broader movement that is not just about illegal immigrants — and that is steadily increasing its annexation of one of America’s two major political parties.

Arizonans, like all Americans, have every right to be furious about Washington’s protracted and bipartisan failure to address the immigration stalemate. To be angry about illegal immigration is hardly tantamount to being a bigot. But the Arizona law expressing that anger is bigoted, and in a very particular way. The law dovetails seamlessly with the national “Take Back America” crusade that has attended the rise of Barack Obama and the accelerating demographic shift our first African-American president represents.

The crowd that wants Latinos to show their papers if there’s a “reasonable suspicion” of illegality is often the same crowd still demanding that the president produce a document proving his own citizenship. Lest there be any doubt of that confluence, Rush Limbaugh hammered the point home after Obama criticized Arizona’s action. “I can understand Obama being touchy on the subject of producing your papers,” he said. “Maybe he’s afraid somebody’s going to ask him for his.” Or, as Glenn Beck chimed in about the president last week: “What has he said that sounds like American?”

To the “Take Back America” right, the illegitimate Obama is Illegal Alien No. 1. It’s no surprise that of the 35 members of the Arizona House who voted for the immigration law (the entire Republican caucus), 31 voted soon after for another new law that would require all presidential candidates to produce birth certificates to qualify for inclusion on the state’s 2012 ballot. With the whole country now watching Arizona, that “birther” bill was abruptly yanked Thursday.

The legislators who voted for both it and the immigration law were exclusively Republicans, but what happened in the Arizona G.O.P. is not staying in Arizona. Officials in at least 10 other states are now teeing up their own new immigration legislation. They are doing so even in un-Arizonan places like Ohio, Missouri, Maryland and Nebraska, none of them on the Department of Homeland Security’s 2009 list of the 10 states that contain three-quarters of America’s illegal immigrant population.

Outbreaks of nativist apoplexy are nothing new in American history. The last derailed George W. Bush’s apparently earnest effort to get a bipartisan immigration compromise through the Senate in 2007. At the time, the more egregious expressions of anti-immigrant rage — including Arizona’s self-appointed border-patrol militia, the Minutemen — were stigmatized as a fringe by the White House and much of the G.O.P. establishment. John McCain, though facing a tough fight for the Republican presidential nomination, signed on to the Bush reform effort despite being slimed by those in his party’s base who accused him of supporting “amnesty.”

What a difference the Tea Party makes. This time McCain endorsed his state’s new immigration law as “a good tool” and “a very important step forward,” and propagandized in favor of it with his widely ridiculed televised canard that illegal immigrants were “intentionally causing accidents on the freeway.” McCain, like other mainstream conservative Republicans facing primaries this year, is now fighting for his political life against a Tea Party-supported radical. His opponent, the former congressman and radio shock jock J. D. Hayworth, is an unabashed birther who frames the immigration debate as an opportunity to “stand up for our culture,” presumably against all immigrants, legal and illegal alike. In this political climate, he could well win.

McCain, like Arizona, shouldn’t be singled out for censure: He is far from alone in cowering before his party’s extremists. Neither Mitch McConnell, John Boehner nor Eric Cantor dared say a word against Arizona’s law. Mitt Romney, who was mocked during the 2008 campaign for having employed undocumented Guatemalan immigrants as landscapers on his Massachusetts estate, tried to deflect the issue by vacillating (as usual). So did Mike Huckabee, who told The Dallas Morning News last week that “it’s not my place to agree or disagree” with what happened in Arizona. If it’s not the place of a talk-show host and prospective presidential candidate to take a stand on an issue of this moment, whose place is it? There are few profiles in courage among the leaders in this G.O.P. — only a lot of guys hiding under their desks.

The one group of Republicans that has been forthright in criticizing the Arizona law is the Bush circle: Jeb Bush, the former speechwriter Michael Gerson, the Homeland Security secretary Tom Ridge, the adviser Mark McKinnon and, with somewhat more equivocal language, Karl Rove. McKinnon and Rove know well that Latino-bashing will ultimately prove political suicide in a century when Hispanic Americans are well on their way to becoming the largest minority in the country and are already the swing voters in many critical states.

The Bushies, however, have no power and no juice in the new conservative order. The former president is nearly as reviled in some Tea Party circles as Obama is. Even conservatives as seemingly above reproach as Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina now invite the nastiest of blow-back if they fail Tea Party purity tests. When Graham had the gall to work with Chuck Schumer of New York on an immigration reform bill, the hard-line Americans for Legal Immigration punished him by spreading rumors about his private life as loudly as possible. Graham has been backing away from supporting the immigration bill ever since.

It’s harder and harder to cling to the conventional wisdom that the Tea Party is merely an element in the G.O.P., not the party’s controlling force — the tail that’s wagging the snarling dog. It’s also hard to maintain that the Tea Party’s nuttier elements are merely a fringe of a fringe. The first national Tea Party convention, in Nashville in February, chose as its kickoff speaker the former presidential candidate Tom Tancredo, a notorious nativist who surely was enlisted precisely because he runs around saying things like he has “no idea where Obama was born.” The Times/CBS poll of the Tea Party movement found that only 41 percent of its supporters believe that the president was born in the United States.

The angry right and its apologists also keep insisting that race has nothing to do with their political passions. Thus Sarah Palin explained that it’s Obama and the “lamestream media” that are responsible for “perpetuating this myth that racial profiling is a part” of Arizona’s law. So how does that profiling work without race or ethnicity, exactly? Brian Bilbray, a Republican Congressman from California and another supporter of the law, rode to the rescue by suggesting “they will look at the kind of dress you wear.” Wise Latinas better start shopping at Talbots!

In this Alice in Wonderland inversion of reality, it’s politically incorrect to entertain a reasonable suspicion that race may be at least a factor in what drives an action like the Arizona immigration law. Any racism in America, it turns out, is directed at whites. Beck called Obama a “racist.” Newt Gingrich called Sonia Sotomayor a “Latina woman racist.” When Obama put up a routine YouTube video calling for the Democratic base to mobilize last week — which he defined as “young people, African-Americans, Latinos and women” — the Republican National Committee attacked him for playing the race card. Presumably the best defense is a good offense when you’re a party boasting an all-white membership in both the House and the Senate and represented by governors who omit slavery from their proclamations of Confederate History Month.

In a development that can only be described as startling, the G.O.P.’s one visible black leader, the party chairman Michael Steele, went off message when appearing at DePaul University on April 20. He conceded that African-Americans “really don’t have a reason” to vote Republican, citing his party’s pursuit of a race-baiting “Southern strategy” since the Nixon-Agnew era. For this he was attacked by conservatives who denied there had ever been such a strategy. That bit of historical revisionism would require erasing, for starters, Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms, not to mention the Willie Horton campaign that helped to propel Bush 41 into the White House in 1988.

The rage of 2010 is far more incendiary than anything that went down in 1988, and it will soon leap from illegal immigration to other issues in other states. Boycott the Diamondbacks and Phoenix’s convention hotels if you want to punish Arizona, but don’t for a second believe that it will stop the fire next time.


michaelintp

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2010, 10:35:09 pm »
Reginald, instead of discussing the substantive issues, be they the enforcement of our immigration laws, domestic economic policy, and the like, we just keeping going full circle, with the inevitable reemergence of the rants of Mr. Rich, the master of 'one word quotes' 'no context given' 'humor portrayed as solemnity' 'distortion' 'sweeping generalization' and 'name-calling.'  What better way to avoid talking about the issues, eh? While Rich may convince the choir he's preaching to, I'm sure a lotta folk hear his repetitive song as off key.  
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 11:13:22 pm by michaelintp »

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2010, 11:01:03 pm »
My young cousin was visiting today.  He's got a black dad and a white mom, and is sometimes mistaken for Mexican.  He was talking about visiting some relatives in Arizona.  My mind went to him being stopped for looking too damn Mexican for his own good, and his attempts to explain his identity being taken as backtalk and his head being split open by a cop's billy club to teach him a lesson. 

Based on past comments, I would suspect you hear concerns like that and chalk it up to racial paranoia, then return to fretting over a nuclear armed Iran.  For brown Americans, we we don't have to look on the other side of the world for people who hate us for who we are. 

Latinos are now the largest minority in the United States. There's a black man who is the President of those United States.   We can't afford to ignore the racial backlash of insecure, racist Americans who are terrified of change.  They look around and feel the age of white privilege is ending and don't know how they will cope. 

Workers are worried about jobs going away...but I don't see white folks fighting to pick grapes.  Employers certainly don't want their cheap labor pool going away, which is why this law doesn't target them. 

It's a mean spirited, racist law designed to strike terror in the hearts of any brown person, legal or not, and pump up the Tea Party crowd who doesn't understand you can't elect a president if you only have the support of white men. 

michaelintp

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2010, 07:27:24 am »
All these horrors, conveyed with vile race-based characterizations, prompted by ...?  Because a state legislature dares to suggest that our nation's immigration laws should be enforced?  That, since the Federal Government has totally dropped the ball, a state government is taking measures to see that those laws are enforced?  

Now gee, I wonder what is really motivating 60% to 70% of Arizonans to support this law?  Might it have something to do with the dramatic increase in violent crime and drug smuggling, in significant part attributable to the influx of foreign nationals entering Arizona illegally? What about the state's high unemployment rate? These are legitimate concerns, whether you wish to admit it or not.  My suspicion is that victims of violent crime and drug peddling come in all colors. The ranks of unemployed Americans come in all colors too.

As to your young cousin, I believe your fears to be unfounded.  Please report back to us after he visits Arizona.  ;)

Here is an article that presents perspectives pro and con:

April 30, 2010
Arizonans Say Immigration Law Will Reduce Crime
Supporters Say the Law is a Necessary Step for Law Enforcement; Anti-Law Rallies Planned for Weekend Nationwide


(CBS)  Recent polls show more than 60 percent of Arizonans support the state's tough new immigration law. If outsiders wonder why, Arizonans point to Rob Krentz. He was gunned down this month on his ranch near the border. Investigators think his killer was an illegal immigrant or drug smuggler.

Afterward, long simmering rage about border security became outrage, reports CBS News correspondent Bill Whitaker.

One Arizonan said, "When something like the murder of Rob Krentz happens it should be game on."

Since the federal government tightened up the California border 15 years ago, Arizona has become the new illegal gateway to the Unites States. One-hundred-five people were caught crossing from Mexico Wednesday, and almost 700,000 have crossed in the last two and a half years.

"Crime is that bad," said Sheriff of Pinal County Paul Babeu. Pinal County is just south of Phoenix.

"Assaults against police officers, officer-involved shootings, home invasions, carjackings, violent crimes. You ask, why is that? We can clearly point to the flow of illegal immigrants," said Babeu.

Phoenix is the kidnapping capital of the United States, with most instances tied to Mexican drug smugglers.

"We're not going to tolerate it anymore," said Babeu.

That widespread sentiment spurs widespread support for the new immigration law.

"You certainly can't blame all the crime on the illegal immigrants, but it's not helping matters," said Mark Allen.

"This is our state," said Mark Zemel. "These are our borders."

Zemel had his vehicle stolen by smugglers ferrying immigrants across the border illegally.

"This bill will help Arizona," said Zemel. "This is a safe neighborhoods act and it's truly going to serve that purpose."

Protesters out again Friday say the atmosphere in Arizona casts all immigrants as criminals.

"We don't support the racism," said Phoenix mayor Phil Gordon.

Gordon plans to sue to overturn the law. He says the law will hurt the economy more than criminals.

"I've been really pleading with everyone not to boycott Arizona," he said.

Opponents like the mayor and supporters all say this would not be such a hot issue if the federal government took effective action to stop the illegal flow across the border.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 07:34:10 am by michaelintp »

Offline Battle

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2010, 07:33:51 am »
All these horrors, conveyed with vile race-based characterizations, prompted by ...?  Because a state legislature dares to suggest that our nation's immigration laws should be enforced?  

Now gee, I wonder what is really motivating 60% to 70% of Arizonans to support this law?  Might it have something to do with the dramatic increase in violent crime and drug smuggling, in part attributable to the influx of foreign nationals entering Arizona illegally? What about the state's high unemployment rate? These are legitimate concerns, whether you wish to admit it or not.  My suspicion is that victims of violent crime and drug peddling come in all colors. The ranks of unemployed Americans come in all colors too.

As to your young cousin, I believe your fears to be unfounded.  Please report back to us after he visits Arizona.  ;)

Here is an article that presents perspectives pro and con:

April 30, 2010
Arizonans Say Immigration Law Will Reduce Crime



Nien!


Nien!
Nien!
Nien!
Nien!
Nien!
Nien
Nien
Nien
Nien

That immigration law will probably cause and create more crime.

michaelintp

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #65 on: May 03, 2010, 07:38:15 am »
Battle, that is the dumbest comparison I have ever ever seen, on so many levels.  The cartoonist who made it clearly has no understanding of what Nazi Germany was all about.  If he did, he would realize there is no way to compare it to the state of Arizona.

Offline Francisco

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2010, 07:44:18 am »
Yeah, in Nazi Germany it was Jews the ones target. In Arizona they're Mexican.. Brown ones not Luis Miguel, Paulina Rubio types.  ::)

Besides Arizona has no plans for extermination Camps and such.
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Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #67 on: May 03, 2010, 10:40:28 am »
My young cousin was visiting today.  He's got a black dad and a white mom, and is sometimes mistaken for Mexican.  He was talking about visiting some relatives in Arizona.  My mind went to him being stopped for looking too damn Mexican for his own good, and his attempts to explain his identity being taken as backtalk and his head being split open by a cop's billy club to teach him a lesson. 

Based on past comments, I would suspect you hear concerns like that and chalk it up to racial paranoia... 

As to your young cousin, I believe your fears to be unfounded.  Please report back to us after he visits Arizona.  ;)

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Offline Kristopher

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #68 on: May 03, 2010, 07:45:53 pm »
My young cousin was visiting today.  He's got a black dad and a white mom, and is sometimes mistaken for Mexican.  He was talking about visiting some relatives in Arizona.  My mind went to him being stopped for looking too damn Mexican for his own good, and his attempts to explain his identity being taken as backtalk and his head being split open by a cop's billy club to teach him a lesson. 

I have a younger cousin who recently passed on a visit to Arizona for pretty much the same reasons, only it's not just the "Mexican I.D. Mistake" he's worried about, but the "Muslim Terrorist I.D. Mistake" as well:

Offline Cheirel

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #69 on: May 03, 2010, 10:01:39 pm »
Guys this is NOT NEW for Arizona. We were stopped well over 20 years ago for my fiancee at that time to show his papers. He was not Hispanic. Fortunately for him he had military ID otherwise who knows what would have happened. He was sleep as we passed through the border they were ready for him I grabbed his id --NO PROBLEMS! Same thing just no T.V. coverage. My family is from Texas and I have made that drive from here to there more times that I care to remember and seen things that most of you only read about so this is really not more than a joke to me.

michaelintp

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #70 on: May 03, 2010, 10:59:24 pm »
As to your young cousin, I believe your fears to be unfounded.  Please report back to us after he visits Arizona.  ;)

Prescient.

Well, I did ask Reginald to report back after his young cousin visits Arizona. ;D

michaelintp

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #71 on: May 04, 2010, 06:52:51 am »
Yeah, in Nazi Germany it was Jews the ones target. In Arizona they're Mexican.. Brown ones not Luis Miguel, Paulina Rubio types.  ::)

Besides Arizona has no plans for extermination Camps and such.

I'm sick and tired of the "Nazi" charge, leveled against anyone one disagrees with.  I hate it when Lefties do it, and I hate it when Righties do it.  If we have descended to the level that one can't tell the difference between a global campaign of Genocide vs. the enforcement of a nation's reasonable immigration laws (that the Left objects to) or the enactment of massive government programs (that the Right objects to), well, we have descended to a pretty pathetic state. 

On the immigration issue, I do not favor "targeting" legal residents or U.S. citizens, just because they happen to be of the same ethnic group as the vast majority of illegal aliens.  On the other hand, I have no problem with the police asking for ID when stopping anyone for a traffic ticket, or (obviously) for a more serious offense or a bust in connection with a more serious offense, and running that ID though the computer to see if it is legit (or if the person fails to provide any ID at all, taking him or her into custody pending verification of identity and legal status).   

The problems that Arizona is facing are very significant.  That Phoenix is the kidnapping capital of the United States, caused by the same criminal element that is smuggling drugs from Mexico, is no joke.  This, and the broader problem of drug smuggling and violent crime significantly caused by the massive tide of people illegally crossing the border from Mexico into Arizona, is one of those 'inconvenient truths' that opponents of the law would rather just ignore.

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #72 on: May 04, 2010, 09:23:32 am »
To keep it fun, here's a blog entry from Bryon Crawford:

If you cross the US border...

From the comments section of a post on Prison Planet, i.e. the same place that guy got the idea to shoot those cops.


If you cross the North Korean border illegally, you get 12 years hard labor.

If you cross the Iranian border illegally, you are detained indefinitely.

If you cross the Afghan border illegally, you get shot.

If you cross the Saudi Arabian border illegally, you will be jailed.

If you cross the Chinese border illegally, you may never be heard from again.

If you cross the Venezuelan border illegally, you will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed.

If you cross the Mexican border illegally, you will be thrown into a political prison to rot.

If you cross the U.S. border illegally, you get:

1. A job,
2. a drivers license,
3. a social security card,
4. welfare,
5. food stamps,
6. credit cards,
7. subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house,
8. free education,
9. free health care,
10. a lobbyist in Washington,
11. billions of dollars worth of public documents printed in your language,
12. and the right to carry your country’s flag while you protest that you don’t get enough respect.

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #73 on: May 04, 2010, 11:01:07 am »
Oh shat! That is a good one Reggie.


BTW I have plans to attend a wedding in Tucson, Az (ironically this month  :o). I may not look "Latino" but at the same time I'm willing to report back after I visit Arizona as well.


On to the topic

The panel has explained my problem with these laws more than once. (Employers hiring illegally) At times, I have flat out seen an ad that was in Spanish looking for employees on major bus stops. So for the employer, please spare the "oh I didn't know" or "it is too expensive" or "I need to compete since my competition is doing it too" The industries that is guilty of this are the construction, real estate, & hospitality industries. I shouldn't assume (and honestly It is borderline racist) but every morning when I'm on the bus one would see a group of individuals of Latino descent talking and conversing in Spanish about whatever. Once they reach their stop, they all get out of the bus and BEHOLD they are walking toward the construction of new houses in the area.  ::) That is nothing new. Shoot even Macy's may be under scrutiny of hiring illegals. I wouldn't be surprised that over 90% of all employers have some illegal worker.


Now my problem to add is that this entire country was founded upon illegal immigration. And numerous, Jewish, German, Russian, Serbian, Japanese & few other came to this country illegally as well for decades. Why it is a concern now regarding ones "south of the border" but not others from our northern cousins? Where were the concerns 20 years ago? (Maybe they were there but I'm unsure)
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Offline mayday

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #74 on: May 04, 2010, 11:51:23 am »
Dang. I loved Arizona too, great food & BEAUTIFUL Latino/Hispanic/Mexican/AMERICAN women !