Author Topic: Arizona no like Latinos  (Read 34550 times)

Offline moor

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #105 on: May 13, 2010, 07:14:25 am »
Stop this silly thread now.

In what ignoramus-filled world does further study about the different cultures which make up our national fabric equal resentment, discrimination, or oppression of the majority??

This school official wants to shut down history classes that offend his own ethnocentrism.   And he's a teacher???

Even School House Rock paid appropriate tribute to the Great American Melting Pot.  Now we're actually debating whether learning about its "ingredients" is un-American?  Shameless.

Of course - making statements that "Republicans don't like Latinos" just fuels the flames of stupid...  Who cares??  The issue is whether Republicans and Democrats like kids learning...  If studying U.S. History engages a child in the learning process, keeps them in-school and excited about being there, then please let the moron who wants to stop that stand up and raise their hand.

Maybe if we stopped politicizing education for two seconds we could appreciate the fact that the children are actually excited about engaging in thoughtful discussion on what makes this country great.

That these cultural history courses aren't integrated into the maintstream US History curriculum is just plain criminal...



michaelintp

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #106 on: May 13, 2010, 07:51:44 am »
Moor, I agree with much of what you say, but not your conclusion.  In the public schools, if there is something worth teaching our kids, it is worth teaching them ALL, together, not in segregated ethnocentric programs that indoctrinate them with hostility against others. Let our kids celebrate diversity together, within the greater bond of unity. Our kids, as the citizens of tomorrow, need to learn to appreciate, not hate, one another.

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #107 on: May 13, 2010, 08:25:17 am »
Moor, I agree with much of what you say, but not your conclusion.  In the public schools, if there is something worth teaching our kids, it is worth teaching them ALL, together, not in segregated ethnocentric programs that indoctrinate them with hostility against others. Let our kids celebrate diversity together, within the greater bond of unity. Our kids, as the citizens of tomorrow, need to learn to appreciate, not hate, one another.
You just made that up, Michael.  The programs are not segregated, they are not full of hostility, that's all absurd.  As absurd as the St. Pat's example I gave.

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #108 on: May 13, 2010, 08:32:20 am »
On the immigration issue, I do not favor "targeting" legal residents or U.S. citizens, just because they happen to be of the same ethnic group as the vast majority of illegal aliens.  On the other hand, I have no problem with the police asking for ID when stopping anyone for a traffic ticket, or (obviously) for a more serious offense or a bust in connection with a more serious offense, and running that ID though the computer to see if it is legit (or if the person fails to provide any ID at all, taking him or her into custody pending verification of identity and legal status).   


Like this, right?
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #109 on: May 13, 2010, 03:51:21 pm »
Moor, I agree with much of what you say, but not your conclusion.  In the public schools, if there is something worth teaching our kids, it is worth teaching them ALL, together, not in segregated ethnocentric programs that indoctrinate them with hostility against others. Let our kids celebrate diversity together, within the greater bond of unity. Our kids, as the citizens of tomorrow, need to learn to appreciate, not hate, one another.
I don't think that was his conclusion. What he is saying is that (I'm unsure) these cultural history courses should be implemented into the core education element without the separate classes
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 06:36:36 am by BmoreAkuma »
With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.

michaelintp

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #110 on: May 13, 2010, 06:47:51 pm »
Oh, OK, I see.  Now support for the Boston Tea Party and its opposition to taxation Without representation, and perhaps more broadly support for the American Revolution, is racist?  Sheesh. This really is nuts.

No, it's an example of how race permeates the fabric of our country.  To you it's "besides the point" but it isn't a side issue to people getting lynched.


The disparaging comments above, regarding the Boston Tea Party, got me to wondering if there was some fallout from the event that I had never heard of.  Some of you seemed to be suggesting that there were lynchings of Indians or blacks as a result of the event.  I had never heard of anything of the sort happening in response to the Boston Tea Party.  You made me curious.

There was no lynching or false blaming.  On the contrary, immediately after the event, John Adams publicized it as an act of protest. From the outset, even though some (not all) of the protestors were thinly disguised, everyone knew that the destruction of the tea was the act of Colonists, not Indians. 

So c’mon guys.  This isn’t some instance of something terrible that happened that “white people” are oblivious to or indifferent to. The truth is that nothing happened … other than the start of the American Revolution. 

Maybe, in this instance, you were just pulling my leg.  I've got to believe that.

Boston Tea Party

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party

On December 16—the last day of the [ship that held the taxable tea] Dartmouth's deadline—about 7,000 people had gathered around the Old South Meeting House. After receiving a report that Governor Hutchinson had again refused to let the ships leave, [John] Adams announced that "This meeting can do nothing further to save the country." According to a popular story, Adams's statement was a prearranged signal for the "tea party" to begin. However, this claim did not appear in print until nearly a century after the event, in a biography of Adams written by his great-grandson, who apparently misinterpreted the evidence. According to eyewitness accounts, people did not leave the meeting until ten or fifteen minutes after Adams's alleged "signal", and Adams in fact tried to stop people from leaving because the meeting was not yet over.

Destruction of the tea

While Samuel Adams tried to reassert control of the meeting, people poured out of the Old South Meeting House and headed to Boston Harbor. That evening, a group of 30 to 130 men, some of them thinly disguised as Mohawk Indians, boarded the three vessels and, over the course of three hours, dumped all 342 chests of tea into the water.

Reaction

Whether or not Samuel Adams helped plan the Boston Tea Party is unknown, but he immediately worked to publicize and defend it. He argued that the Tea Party was not the act of a lawless mob, but was instead a principled protest and the only remaining option the people had to defend their constitutional rights.

Governor Thomas Hutchinson had been urging London to take a hard line with the Sons of Liberty. If he had done what the other royal governors had done and let the ship owners and captains resolve the issue with the colonists, the Dartmouth, Eleanor and the Beaver would have left without unloading any tea.

In Britain, even those politicians considered friends of the colonies were appalled and this act united all parties there against the colonies. The Prime Minister Lord North said, "Whatever may be the consequence, we must risk something; if we do not, all is over". The British government felt this action could not remain unpunished, and responded by closing the port of Boston and putting in place other laws known as the "Coercive Acts".


michaelintp

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #111 on: May 13, 2010, 07:00:20 pm »
Moor, I agree with much of what you say, but not your conclusion.  In the public schools, if there is something worth teaching our kids, it is worth teaching them ALL, together, not in segregated ethnocentric programs that indoctrinate them with hostility against others. Let our kids celebrate diversity together, within the greater bond of unity. Our kids, as the citizens of tomorrow, need to learn to appreciate, not hate, one another.
You just made that up, Michael.  The programs are not segregated, they are not full of hostility, that's all absurd.  As absurd as the St. Pat's example I gave.

I wish you were correct.  For the good of our nation, and because it is just right, the focus of our public educational system should be on fostering racial unity, not racial division, not racial schism, and not racial separatism.

Offline moor

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #112 on: May 13, 2010, 07:59:58 pm »
Moor, I agree with much of what you say, but not your conclusion.  In the public schools, if there is something worth teaching our kids, it is worth teaching them ALL, together, not in segregated ethnocentric programs that indoctrinate them with hostility against others. Let our kids celebrate diversity together, within the greater bond of unity. Our kids, as the citizens of tomorrow, need to learn to appreciate, not hate, one another.

Although Bmore stated my conclusion better than I did, I want to point out that if the Republican comment was made, then it was in very poor taste.. that type of proselytizing does no student any good and completely undermines the necessity for why we need these types of classes more closely integrated into the US History mainstream curriculum...

michaelintp

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #113 on: May 13, 2010, 08:41:41 pm »
Moor, I think I misconstrued your conclusion, maybe because of some of the other comments in your post. Sorry 'bout that. Sounds like you too believe in public schools where students of all races learn together, not segregated by ethnicity. Then, on that point, we agree.

I hate the idea of people of different races feeling anything about people of other races, other than the "feeling" of indifference to race altogether.  Our kids must learn, at a young age, to think of people as people (and in the context of our country, as fellow Americans). I want to see them fall in love with each other, marry each other, have kids, teach their kids to feel the same way, from generation to generation. Children do have the innate ability to view the world in this way, if they are not corrupted by adults who are driven by bigotry or divisive agendas. Beyond the Three R's, this should be viewed as one of the primary missions of public education.

Of course in the teaching of history, for example, past evils and injustices cannot be ignored. Nor should it be ignored that people in our past recognized that those evils were evil, and that those injustices had to be remedied. That too is part of the story. This is not to say that there are not differences of opinion today on significant issues, including issues surrounding race; our discussions in this Forum demonstrate that. But those disagreements should be principled, not motivated by prejudice. That too is a topic worth exploring in our public educational system.

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #114 on: May 13, 2010, 09:39:26 pm »
Great, let's get rid of the social studies department because why should we learn about Asian or Latin American or Middle Eastern cultures.  Let's all just be people.  Let's not learn other languages because that separates people too.  After all, understanding other cultures NEVER brings people together.

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #115 on: May 13, 2010, 09:43:26 pm »
I hope that they are no longer teaching about the impact of: Italians, Spaniards, Germans etc. on American society as well.

Perhaps DC editorial can create the diversity curriculum for Arizona?

michaelintp

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #116 on: May 13, 2010, 10:59:00 pm »
Great, let's get rid of the social studies department because why should we learn about Asian or Latin American or Middle Eastern cultures.  Let's all just be people.  Let's not learn other languages because that separates people too.  After all, understanding other cultures NEVER brings people together.

You clearly are not responding to what I actually wrote. Who, then, are you talking to? Why do you feel the need to create some silly straw man, instead of responding to what I actually said. I expressly mentioned the study of history, and also contemporary issues including "racial" issues, and that list was clearly not meant to be exhaustive. I can't believe you are doing this, Reginald. Shame on you! :o

Sorry, but no, I'm not a big fan of racial segregation (whether it be imposed from the outside or imposed from the inside). I understand this is not what you expressly said above, all you mentioned is studying cultures and languages. However, my feeling on this issue is in part what has motivated some of my other comments, above. Also I believe that your denial that some of these "ethnic studies" programs (particularly those that are essentially segregated) foster animosity against others, does not comport with what we see in practice.

As to understanding "cultures" and "languages" there is no issue and no debate, so what are you talkin' about? There is a big difference in studying and understanding cultures (and sub-cultures), as opposed to getting so wrapped up in them that one denies the existence of the broader American Culture that we are all part of, that makes us one American People. Celebrating our diversity is good, but not when diversity becomes the be all and end all. Because then it becomes not diversity within a greater Whole, but rather just fragmentation and division. As I stated in another post, a nation divided cannot stand.  

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #117 on: May 13, 2010, 11:02:46 pm »
Banning ethnic studies is there only solution proposed by these book burners, not amending the content of the courses or making sure that black and latin american history is integrated into the broader american studies courses.  Their intent is to ignore black and latin history and heritage.  Or at least ignore the "icky" parts that make them uncomfortable.

michaelintp

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #118 on: May 13, 2010, 11:11:55 pm »
Reginald, course content is amended and revised all the time. Look at any textbook today, compared to (say) one used in the 1950s.

In any event, I see you are not really interested in responding to what I posted, above. Which is fine.

Have a good night.

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: Arizona no like Latinos
« Reply #119 on: May 14, 2010, 07:08:44 am »
Reginald, course content is amended and revised all the time. Look at any textbook today, compared to (say) one used in the 1950s.


Not so much.
Here's a book recommendation for you:
Lies My Teacher Told Me - James W. Loewen
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 09:24:42 am by Curtis Metcalf »
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."