Author Topic: Doomwar #4 Preview  (Read 14558 times)

Offline Open palm

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2010, 12:53:30 am »
In all this where are the Hatut Zeraze? surely they should have been either part of the rebellion or the rescue.

I'm sure they'll be back someday when they wish to reinstate their father's Gestapo.
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Offline Greg

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2010, 10:21:09 am »
Lettered Preview

http://www.theouthousers.com/content/view/8222/600/

I really do hope Storm plays a bigger role in this book and we actually get her and T'Challa interacting.

Offline BBeeryan

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2010, 10:51:33 am »
Lettered Preview

http://www.theouthousers.com/content/view/8222/600/

I really do hope Storm plays a bigger role in this book and we actually get her and T'Challa interacting.

You aint the only one.
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Offline Seven

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2010, 12:57:53 pm »
I hope we actually see T'challa doing something. Black Panther gets an Event...and he isn't doing anything?

Offline Naki

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2010, 03:26:28 pm »
Lettered Preview

http://www.theouthousers.com/content/view/8222/600/

I really do hope Storm plays a bigger role in this book and we actually get her and T'Challa interacting.

You aint the only one.



All of the concerns/issues people raised about T'Challa's secrecy and Storm's predicament could have been easily handled in issue 3. Instead of Shuri relaying the whole story to the FF, Maberry could have split the explanation. Shuri could have relayed one part to the FF while T'Challa shared his side with his wife. This would have made for a tighter story and sewn up some gaping holes. So, I guess, we're supposed to assume that they had a big heart-to-heart and now Storm's off fighting vibranium enhanced Doombots who look a lot like Bast. This storyline seems suddenly long to me.

Offline Greg

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2010, 03:29:22 pm »
Lettered Preview

http://www.theouthousers.com/content/view/8222/600/

I really do hope Storm plays a bigger role in this book and we actually get her and T'Challa interacting.

You aint the only one.



All of the concerns/issues people raised about T'Challa's secrecy and Storm's predicament could have been easily handled in issue 3. Instead of Shuri relaying the whole story to the FF, Maberry could have split the explanation. Shuri could have relayed one part to the FF while T'Challa shared his side with his wife. This would have made for a tighter story and sewn up some gaping holes. So, I guess, we're supposed to assume that they had a big heart-to-heart and now Storm's off fighting vibranium enhanced Doombots who look a lot like Bast. This storyline seems suddenly long to me.


Seems that was initially the plan but then Marvel told Maberry to write a recap of the whole event starting from the Black Panther relaunch due to the sell out of #1 and new readers jumping aboard.

Offline Naki

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2010, 06:03:07 pm »
Lettered Preview

http://www.theouthousers.com/content/view/8222/600/

I really do hope Storm plays a bigger role in this book and we actually get her and T'Challa interacting.

You aint the only one.



All of the concerns/issues people raised about T'Challa's secrecy and Storm's predicament could have been easily handled in issue 3. Instead of Shuri relaying the whole story to the FF, Maberry could have split the explanation. Shuri could have relayed one part to the FF while T'Challa shared his side with his wife. This would have made for a tighter story and sewn up some gaping holes. So, I guess, we're supposed to assume that they had a big heart-to-heart and now Storm's off fighting vibranium enhanced Doombots who look a lot like Bast. This storyline seems suddenly long to me.


Seems that was initially the plan but then Marvel told Maberry to write a recap of the whole event starting from the Black Panther relaunch due to the sell out of #1 and new readers jumping aboard.


Yeah, I get that. I'm just saying there was a better way to do it. He could've still done the recap, but allow T'Challa to do some of the talking instead of just Shuri. That way, the recap and the needed wife-husband heart-to-heart could've also been covered.

Offline sinjection1

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2010, 06:11:31 am »
I hope we actually see T'challa doing something. Black Panther gets an Event...and he isn't doing anything?

I get a sense of your frustration, Seven. The story started in the Black Panther but has spun out of the pages of that now-canceled book to become not a Black Panther event, but a Dr. Doom event. I would guess that many readers of DOOMWAR were not readers of the Black Panther. Those readers are likely Dr. Doom fans who are thrilled by the one thing the Black Panther is doing and has been doing all along, getting his butt kicked by Dr. Doom. As Maberry commented in one of his posts, the title of the book is DOOMWAR afterall.
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Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2010, 06:32:24 am »
The biggest challenge of Doomwar is to let BP win in a way that is A) believable and B) that respects the both characters, hero and villains.  I say "both" because having BP win because Doom is foolish, does a disservice to both characters.  It would suggest BP can only win because Doom makes mistakes.  True, that is an cliche that comics use constantly, but it also means the hero can't win unless the villain sabatogues himself.  BP needs a real victory over Doom's strength, not over Doom's weakness.

And C) BP needs to win without using a "god in the machine" solution.  Yeah, sci fi uses the trick all the time, but having BP pull out a "magic" answer that has not been foreshadowed isn't the best way to prove to the world BP's formidable.

And to respect Storm while doing this isn't an easy thing.

Offline sinjection1

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2010, 02:07:30 pm »
The biggest challenge of Doomwar is to let BP win in a way that is A) believable and B) that respects the both characters, hero and villains.  I say "both" because having BP win because Doom is foolish, does a disservice to both characters.  It would suggest BP can only win because Doom makes mistakes.  True, that is an cliche that comics use constantly, but it also means the hero can't win unless the villain sabatogues himself.  BP needs a real victory over Doom's strength, not over Doom's weakness.

And C) BP needs to win without using a "god in the machine" solution.  Yeah, sci fi uses the trick all the time, but having BP pull out a "magic" answer that has not been foreshadowed isn't the best way to prove to the world BP's formidable.

And to respect Storm while doing this isn't an easy thing.

Thus far in the story, Doom is beating T'Challa at his own game; accurately anticipating an opponent's moves and acting in advance to impede or implode the opponent's offensive.

Doom is powerful to be sure. Doom is also arrogant and foolish. These traits have led to his many defeats at the hands of Reed Richards and not only Reed Richards but Luke Cage, Cloak, and most recently, Dr. Voodoo. Doom is not all-powerful. Doom is not infallible. However, at this time, Doom is being written as such to make for a more exciting, intriguing story and T'Challa's/Ororo's/Shuri's and allies' ultimate victory that much sweeter.

R. Richards once defeated Doom by hypnotizing him into believing he'd won. They say a man's home is his castle. Luke Cage "invaded" Latveria, stormed Doom's castle and put a significant whuppin' on Doom in his own living room, cracking up his armor so badly that when Doom was attacked by a second opponent intent on killing him, he was unable to defend himself. Cage actually had to save Doom's bacon...in Doom's own house. The young teenage hero Cloak manipulated and frustrated Doom into destroying one of his nefarious devices and like Cage, Cloak accomplished this feat in Doom's own crib. Lastly, Dr. Voodoo outmanuevered an arrogant, overly-confident Doom which featured Doom making a series of tactical errors which inevitably caused him to bungle into being possessed by Jericho's brother Daniel and used as a tool to dispatch Nightmare. When Doom was of no further use to Dr. Voodoo, the "good Dr." punched the "megalomaniacal Dr." in the nose and told him to go home. How did this apex villian respond to such a bold affront? He picked himself off the floor, opened a portal to Latveria and got the hell out of Dodge, but not before handing Dr. Voodoo that old hackneyed villianous retort; "We will meet again, Drumm...Soon!"

Doom has received more than enough respect in this story already. His ultimate defeat must be humiliating, devastating, and my personal preference is that he is permanently physically maimed. Doom has to lose his left eye for manipulating Wakandan traitors into allowing him to be the only invader ever to conquer Great Wakanda.
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Offline 4sake

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2010, 02:17:15 pm »
The biggest challenge of Doomwar is to let BP win in a way that is A) believable and B) that respects the both characters, hero and villains.  I say "both" because having BP win because Doom is foolish, does a disservice to both characters.  It would suggest BP can only win because Doom makes mistakes.  True, that is an cliche that comics use constantly, but it also means the hero can't win unless the villain sabatogues himself.  BP needs a real victory over Doom's strength, not over Doom's weakness.

And C) BP needs to win without using a "god in the machine" solution.  Yeah, sci fi uses the trick all the time, but having BP pull out a "magic" answer that has not been foreshadowed isn't the best way to prove to the world BP's formidable.

And to respect Storm while doing this isn't an easy thing.

Thus far in the story, Doom is beating T'Challa at his own game; accurately anticipating an opponent's moves and acting in advance to impede or implode the opponent's offensive.

Doom is powerful to be sure. Doom is also arrogant and foolish. These traits have led to his many defeats at the hands of Reed Richards and not only Reed Richards but Luke Cage, Cloak, and most recently, Dr. Voodoo. Doom is not all-powerful. Doom is not infallible. However, at this time, Doom is being written as such to make for a more exciting, intriguing story and T'Challa's/Ororo's/Shuri's and allies' ultimate victory that much sweeter.

R. Richards once defeated Doom by hypnotizing him into believing he'd won. They say a man's home is his castle. Luke Cage "invaded" Latveria, stormed Doom's castle and put a significant whuppin' on Doom in his own living room, cracking up his armor so badly that when Doom was attacked by a second opponent intent on killing him, he was unable to defend himself. Cage actually had to save Doom's bacon...in Doom's own house. The young teenage hero Cloak manipulated and frustrated Doom into destroying one of his nefarious devices and like Cage, Cloak accomplished this feat in Doom's own crib. Lastly, Dr. Voodoo outmanuevered an arrogant, overly-confident Doom which featured Doom making a series of tactical errors which inevitably caused him to bungle into being possessed by Jericho's brother Daniel and used as a tool to dispatch Nightmare. When Doom was of no further use to Dr. Voodoo, the "good Dr." punched the "megalomaniacal Dr." in the nose and told him to go home. How did this apex villian respond to such a bold affront? He picked himself off the floor, opened a portal to Latveria and got the hell out of Dodge, but not before handing Dr. Voodoo that old hackneyed villianous retort; "We will meet again, Drumm...Soon!"

Doom has received more than enough respect in this story already. His ultimate defeat must be humiliating, devastating, and my personal preference is that he is permanently physically maimed. Doom has to lose his left eye for manipulating Wakandan traitors into allowing him to be the only invader ever to conquer Great Wakanda.

I agree...

arm or both & also the ability to rule his nation fora while (again)....
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Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2010, 02:45:29 pm »
The biggest challenge of Doomwar is to let BP win in a way that is A) believable and B) that respects the both characters, hero and villains.  I say "both" because having BP win because Doom is foolish, does a disservice to both characters.  It would suggest BP can only win because Doom makes mistakes.  True, that is an cliche that comics use constantly, but it also means the hero can't win unless the villain sabatogues himself.  BP needs a real victory over Doom's strength, not over Doom's weakness.

And C) BP needs to win without using a "god in the machine" solution.  Yeah, sci fi uses the trick all the time, but having BP pull out a "magic" answer that has not been foreshadowed isn't the best way to prove to the world BP's formidable.

And to respect Storm while doing this isn't an easy thing.

Thus far in the story, Doom is beating T'Challa at his own game; accurately anticipating an opponent's moves and acting in advance to impede or implode the opponent's offensive.

Doom is powerful to be sure. Doom is also arrogant and foolish. These traits have led to his many defeats at the hands of Reed Richards and not only Reed Richards but Luke Cage, Cloak, and most recently, Dr. Voodoo. Doom is not all-powerful. Doom is not infallible. However, at this time, Doom is being written as such to make for a more exciting, intriguing story and T'Challa's/Ororo's/Shuri's and allies' ultimate victory that much sweeter.

R. Richards once defeated Doom by hypnotizing him into believing he'd won. They say a man's home is his castle. Luke Cage "invaded" Latveria, stormed Doom's castle and put a significant whuppin' on Doom in his own living room, cracking up his armor so badly that when Doom was attacked by a second opponent intent on killing him, he was unable to defend himself. Cage actually had to save Doom's bacon...in Doom's own house. The young teenage hero Cloak manipulated and frustrated Doom into destroying one of his nefarious devices and like Cage, Cloak accomplished this feat in Doom's own crib. Lastly, Dr. Voodoo outmanuevered an arrogant, overly-confident Doom which featured Doom making a series of tactical errors which inevitably caused him to bungle into being possessed by Jericho's brother Daniel and used as a tool to dispatch Nightmare. When Doom was of no further use to Dr. Voodoo, the "good Dr." punched the "megalomaniacal Dr." in the nose and told him to go home. How did this apex villian respond to such a bold affront? He picked himself off the floor, opened a portal to Latveria and got the hell out of Dodge, but not before handing Dr. Voodoo that old hackneyed villianous retort; "We will meet again, Drumm...Soon!"

Doom has received more than enough respect in this story already. His ultimate defeat must be humiliating, devastating, and my personal preference is that he is permanently physically maimed. Doom has to lose his left eye for manipulating Wakandan traitors into allowing him to be the only invader ever to conquer Great Wakanda.

The Luke Cage thing probably will turn out to be a Doombot, consider Cage should not be able to break Doom's armor when Ben who is much stronger can't.  (Even Namor norThor hasn't manage to break Doom's armor open.)  Don't confuse bad writing with bad defeats for Doom.

But I'm not talking about a avoiding humilating defeat.  You can still write a humilating defeat for Doom, and not write a foolish Doom.  In fact, if Doom looses because he has a big red button that says "OFF" then no matter how BP wins, it's not a solid win for BP.  Whenever Doom is beaten because he makes mistakes, it means Reed (or whoever) only won because Doom made a mistake.  They did not win because they "beat" Doom.  I think BP needs to BEAT Doom, not capatalize on Doom beating himself.

Offline sinjection1

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2010, 03:11:21 pm »
The Luke Cage thing probably will turn out to be a Doombot, consider Cage should not be able to break Doom's armor when Ben who is much stronger can't.  (Even Namor norThor hasn't manage to break Doom's armor open.)  Don't confuse bad writing with bad defeats for Doom.

The few members of the greater comicbook-reading demographic who have responded to my recounting of this event in the past have said as much. Always wanting to keep Doom in his lofty position of near-infallibility, they throw out the old "it was a Doombot" excuse. T'Challa has been in battles which have left him bruised, bloodied, and once, even an incurable brain tumor. MU fans who have any interest at all in the Black Panther have grown accustomed to seeing an infirm, nearly beaten to death T'Challa on a more or less, regular basis. When Hudlin presents a T'Challa who is supremely confident/supremely capable, those same fans complain that Hudlin's T'Challa is "too perfect". Hudlin's Wakanda is "too perfect". Doom is not perfect. Bad writing...maybe, maybe not. What I do know that as written, Cage defeated Dr. Doom in his own castle and so did Cloak. Recently, Dr. Voodoo smacked Doom in the nose and told him to go home. What did Doom do? He went home.

Quote
But I'm not talking about a avoiding humilating defeat.  You can still write a humilating defeat for Doom, and not write a foolish Doom.  In fact, if Doom looses because he has a big red button that says "OFF" then no matter how BP wins, it's not a solid win for BP.  Whenever Doom is beaten because he makes mistakes, it means Reed (or whoever) only won because Doom made a mistake.  They did not win because they "beat" Doom.  I think BP needs to BEAT Doom, not capatalize on Doom beating himself.

In arm wrestling, the contest is purely strength vs strength and even then, one miscalculation by a participant could lead to the defeat of that individual. The Soviet Union Red Army defeated Hitler's Nazi army because Hitler's arrogance caused him to underestimate the Russians and make the mistake of attacking Stalingrad. Great football teams and basketball teams often (and rightly so) attribute their defeats to turnovers. As Doom said, he and T'Challa are equally matched. So far, T'Challa has been on the short end because he made the "mistake" of blundering into Doom's ambush. It's inevitable that Doom will make a mistake which will lead to his defeat.

Mr. MajestiK, I like your style. You are the wiser, calmer, more articulate second coming of sinjection to "that other place". You do me proud.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2010, 03:37:59 pm »
I don't have a problem with that.  Heroes beating the villain because the villain isn't perfect is a valid victory.  What I am talking about is heroes winning only because the villain is foolish, ie, the foolish mistake.  When a hero beats the villain because of what you describe it is the hero being wise, skillful and sucessful with a measure of luck.  Winning because Doom is foolish is more luck than skill. 

I am not even talking about Doom making a mistake like underestimating BP.  I mean victory because of stupid stuff, like a Skrull commander who sends his entire forces in a single wave when anyone with a high school education knows you attack in multiple waves.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2010, 03:50:58 pm »
But ultimately what I am saying, is give BP a victory where he wins because he is better.  Don't give him a victory where someone could say, "you only won because Doom took off his mask to gloat.". No, give him a victory like FF 200 where Reed refuses to quit, keeps attacking until he ripped off Doom's mask.