Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry

[Afro Samurai]

"That's an extremely simplistic and limited view of what was going on in that film, but...OK.   Besides, Lee didn't direct or write this film.  He only produced it."

So why would he produced such films like that? You would never see something like that with a white jew woman and a nazi man. Halle only won the Oscar, cause she f*cked a white man. And that was the main point of the film.   

"OK, Lee did direct this one, but I don't see how this film praised white supremacy. Sure, it dealt with black on black abuse, but white supremacy???"

The main character is an ugly, fat, dark skin, stupid 16 yr. old kid with 2 kids. She has sexual fantasies about her white teacher & when she look into a mirror she see herself as a skinny white blonde. Mariah, Paula & Lenny the light skinned mixed ppl are the only ppl that help Precious. Also add this to the fact: Lee wanted white ppl to like this film........BADLY.

That's some sell out thinking there. White ppl love this film to death.......that shows that this film is bad. White ppl weren't jumping up & down in joy for "Malcom X." Just like films like: Freedom Writers, Dangerous Minds, etc. it stating that black ppl are less then humans and made these situations (being poor, drugs, etc.) entirely by ourselves. While the white ppl are only helping us out, showing that African culture is evil & that white people never did anything wrong to contribute to the horror of black ppl. Also these films being based on "true stories" just make white ppl more happy.

Mad TV - Nice White Lady

   

LOL^ a funny ass skit to show what I am saying. I am with Paul Mooney, "a demon wrote this film."

"OK, you want to talk about white supremacy and black filmmakers?  Cool.  Then look no further than your boy Tyler Perry.  Let's take Madea.  A big black man like Perry decides to play the main role, his most famous character, in drag.   In effect, emasculating himself, to play this part.  You're telling me that he couldn't find an actual actress to be Madea?  He had to put on the wig, boobs and dress himself?  Seriously?  And I'm supposed to treat this sh*t like it has some credibility or validity as serious art?  C'mon, man."

Madea is just the comedy relief. Usually it about serious stuff and Madea is never the main star of the shows/movies. Medea show up do something funny and they get right into the rape, violence, god, etc. topic again. Most of Tyler Perry movies are comedy dramas, so course there need to be something funny in there.

"Then we've got Mr. Brown.  An old school coon.  You could put this fool in a movie with Bojangles and Stepin Fetchit and no one would bat an eye!  Brown almost single handedly sets Black cinematic images back sixty years."

He is nice to everyone & it mostly to black ppl. Bojangles, Stepin Fetchit, Uncle Remus, etc. were happy go lucky slaves to only white folk. That's the big difference there. 

"I'll grant you that Perry employs a lot of black talent that you don't normally see in more mainstream films, and I do give him props for that, but Spike and his peers have been employing black actors since the 80's.  I know Perry is the flavor of the month, but let's put some things in perspective.    Besides, his mostly black casts don't absolve him from criticism.  Black actors worked consistently in TV and film during the early 70's and that entire era gets heavily criticized.
Perry's skin color issues absolutely make him a sellout.  By casting predominately light skinned actors in hero roles and dark skin actors in villain roles, he's reinforcing the idea that BLACK is BAD and WHITE(or LIGHT in his films) is GOOD."

I even said that's only problem I have Tyler Perry films. But, Tyler seem to be putting more dark skin heroes in his work like: Curtis Payne, Daddy's Little Girls's Idris Elba, etc. But he is not a sell out cause he had a hard time into getting hollywood and tv white execs to help him. B/c Tyler Perry want to produce movies/shows with just all black casts. Lee Daniels, never had that problem with the films he produced and/or directed. I mean did Spike Lee, Singleton, etc. ever display a dark skin sista as sexy in their work? Are they also sell outs, cause they never did that? No, they're not.

Tyler Perry need to do more disrespectful stuff to blacks in order to be a sell out. At the end of the day, Tyler Perry put more black ppl in his work then Spike Lee & other. Spike Lee like to include racist white ppl in his films, while Tyler Perry like to focus more on our own black world. They are not perfect, but we still gonna love & respect what they are doing something positive for us black folks.


"Well, first of all, white, asian, and latin directors aren't the point.  Boyd's talking about BLACK entertainment.  He's talking about the difficulty of adapting for the cinema work as nuanced and complex as Wilson's plays to audiences accustomed to the simplistic--   
Wait.
Aren't you doing the same thing you accuse Boyd of doing by bringing Spike Lee into this?"

Yeah, they are pointless. Not really, if I am writing how wonderful Spike Lee is, I wouldn't insult any other black directors along the way. I brought up Spike Lee cause he was dissing Tyler Perry as well. Boyd, knows that him dissing Tyler Perry would the the highlight of his writing. And I am tired of black hollywood tearing each other down.

[voodoochild]

First off, all that bullsh*t about Halle only getting an oscar because she had sex with a white man is childish nonsense.  There absolutely NO factual evidence supporting that "claim".  C'mon man.  We've gotta be better than that.  You'd have to ask Lee Daniels what his criteria is when choosing his projects.  It seems to me that Daniels is not afraid of controversy.  He doesn't make lowest common denominator films.  His films are tough to deal with and aren't made for general audiences.  Precious having a color complex is one of the points of the film.  Daniels isn't promoting white supremacy.  He's showing you a victim of white supremacy.  Daniels has color issues (just like your boy), but the difference between Daniels and Perry is that Daniels isn't afraid to hold up a mirror and examine those issues.  Daniels confronts uncomfortable situations head on, whether the audience likes it or not.
Perry on the other hand wants to have it both ways.  He likes to introduce tough subject matter, but then not really deal with it.  Instead he tosses in some juvenile bullsh*t with Madea or Mr Brown to soften the edges and wraps everything up in a nice little obligatory church service.  He's a very condescending, dishonest filmmaker.  Does he employ a lot of black talent.  Absolutely, and he deserves credit for that.  Is he a vain and arrogant man?  Absolutely.  Any "artist" that feels the need to put his name over EVERY title he produces, and then give himself top billing, whether he was the "lead" has got esteem issues.  TYLER PERRY PRESENTS... A TYLER PERRY PRODUCTION... WRITTEN BY TYLER PERRY...DIRECTED BY TYLER PERRY...STARRING TYLER PERRY...    :D

If Madea's not the star of the movies, then why does every movie s/he's in have his/her name in the title?  That's dishonest.

And why does he have to play the part?  I asked before, and I'll ask again.  When he originally conceived of the part, why him?  Why not a real middle aged woman to play the part of...a middle aged woman?

Mr Brown being nice to everyone doesn't make him any less of a clown and a damaging, insulting stereotype.  Stepin Fetchit, Bojangles, etc were at least the products of their time.  There is NO excuse for a creation like Brown to exist in a modern realistic setting.  Again, dishonest film making.

Look, just because Perry "struggled" to get into Hollywood --which is actually not true.  He made his fame in the chitlin circuit.  When he went to Hollywood, he already had a name and built in audience, so he never actually "struggled" to get into the Hollywood system.  Diary of a mad black woman the movie was made independently with his own money I believe.  He took the finished product to the studios, they put it out and his built in audience came out in droves.  Lionsgate signed him to a deal.  That's not struggling in Hollywood.  I'm not knocking his hustle, but let's be real about it.  Hundreds of black filmmakers are actually struggling everyday to get their stuff out without built in audiences or sweetheart distribution deals.  Daniels and Lee are a part of that group.  Do a search on either of them and listen to them talk about how difficult it is to find $ for their films.  Get your facts straight, brother.

Spike Lee has been giving us sexy dark skinned sisters since he started in the business.  As a matter of fact, he actually casts across the spectrum.  What are you talking about?  Tracy Camilla Johns(ok, more caramel, I guess)in She's Gotta Have It.  Kyme in School Daze.  Angela Basset in Malcom X.  Alfre Woodard in Crooklyn.  Regina Taylor was in Clockers--small role, but she still looked good .  You get my point.
Spike includes racist white people in his films?  Well, yeah, if that's what the film call for.  Again, what are you talking about?    A lot of Spike's films deal with race. You kinda need racist whites in a film dealing with racism.  Spike has moved on from all black films because he has progressed as an artist.  He still makes films with predominately black casts, but most black people nowadays don't live in some all chocolate vacuum.  In that way, he mirrors reality.  Many of us actually live and work in integrated spaces.

And if you really think that Boyd's article was just about dissing Perry, I suggest you re-read it.   
   

[Vic Vega]

Perry and Daniels collborated on Precious.

I'm not sure these guys see themselves as thematically as far apart as all that.

On the other hand, to hear him talk, you would thank that Spike'd swallow lye before he would ever work with Perry.

[voodoochild]

Perry and Daniels collborated on Precious.

I'm not sure these guys see themselves as thematically as far apart as all that.

On the other hand, to hear him talk, you would thank that Spike'd swallow lye before he would ever work with Perry.

True.  Perry did executive produce Precious.  Hmm, I wonder how that affects Afro Samurai's argument? 

Anyway, I didn't mean for this to devolve into a Perry vs Daniels argument.  Or any director vs any director argument for that matter because that wasn't even the point of the article.  So apologies for the thread derail.

[Afro Samurai]

"First off, all that bullsh*t about Halle only getting an oscar because she had sex with a white man is childish nonsense.  There absolutely NO factual evidence supporting that "claim".  C'mon man.  We've gotta be better than that."[/i]  

Dude, stop being in denial. You know she won that cause of the sex scene.

"You'd have to ask Lee Daniels what his criteria is when choosing his projects.  It seems to me that Daniels is not afraid of controversy.  He doesn't make lowest common denominator films.  His films are tough to deal with and aren't made for general audiences.  Precious having a color complex is one of the points of the film.  Daniels isn't promoting white supremacy.  He's showing you a victim of white supremacy.  Daniels has color issues (just like your boy), but the difference between Daniels and Perry is that Daniels isn't afraid to hold up a mirror and examine those issues.  Daniels confronts uncomfortable situations head on, whether the audience likes it or not."

Lee Daniels already have a track record of promoting white supremacy & I already said that Tyler Perry does have color issues. How doe the movie: "Precious" show the girl is the victim of white supremacy when only the light skin mixed ppl & that white teacher were helping her??  

"Perry on the other hand wants to have it both ways.  He likes to introduce tough subject matter, but then not really deal with it.  Instead he tosses in some juvenile bullsh*t with Madea or Mr Brown to soften the edges and wraps everything up in a nice little obligatory church service.  He's a very condescending, dishonest filmmaker."  

It's a comedy dramas. They need comedy in there somewhere, unless it'll be all drama.

"Does he employ a lot of black talent.  Absolutely, and he deserves credit for that.  Is he a vain and arrogant man?  Absolutely.  Any "artist" that feels the need to put his name over EVERY title he produces, and then give himself top billing, whether he was the "lead" has got esteem issues.  TYLER PERRY PRESENTS... A TYLER PERRY PRODUCTION... WRITTEN BY TYLER PERRY...DIRECTED BY TYLER PERRY...STARRING TYLER PERRY...    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy:D"

LMAO, ok now you just have a personal vendetta against the man. Spike Lee does the samething with "it's a spike lee joint." It called self promotion & to raise his status higher as a director/producer/actor.......aint nothing wrong with that. "Tyler Perry Present" his is "branding"... that's a smart business move & I love when black ppl brag about ourselves.  

"If Madea's not the star of the movies, then why does every movie s/he's in have his/her name in the title?  That's dishonest.

And why does he have to play the part?  I asked before, and I'll ask again.  When he originally conceived of the part, why him?  Why not a real middle aged woman to play the part of...a middle aged woman?"

So more people can see it. Like how Blade 3, wasn't really about Blade at all. Also it could be the name of the original play & Tyler want ppl who liked that play to watch the movie with the same name. Movie, music, etc. that we don't like will always be dishonest in our opinions.

From the movie trailers saying it "magical, wonderful, experience" to the rapper saying "its his best work since his first album".... and us completely disagreeing with those statements will be dishonest TO US.  I don't know why Tyler Perry choose to act in drag. Maybe he thought it was funnier that way. But, I really don't know why and I don't see any problem with him acting in drag. Also, Spike Lee starred in his own films as well.

"Mr Brown being nice to everyone doesn't make him any less of a clown and a damaging, insulting stereotype.  Stepin Fetchit, Bojangles, etc were at least the products of their time.  There is NO excuse for a creation like Brown to exist in a modern realistic setting.  Again, dishonest film making."

He is not a happy go lucky slave to white folk. He's just a stupid kind man that is a Deacon. That more Bojangles will ever be.

"Look, just because Perry "struggled" to get into Hollywood --which is actually not true.  He made his fame in the chitlin circuit.  When he went to Hollywood, he already had a name and built in audience, so he never actually "struggled" to get into the Hollywood system.  Diary of a mad black woman the movie was made independently with his own money I believe.  He took the finished product to the studios, they put it out and his built in audience came out in droves."

He had to fight to keep the whole cast black in his movies & tv shows. Hollywood wanted to add more white folks, Tyler Perry said no and did it his own way. He had to show and prove that black ppl & other races like black movies. Hollywood don't even acknowledge black consumers.

"Lionsgate signed him to a deal.  That's not struggling in Hollywood.  I'm not knocking his hustle, but let's be real about it.  Hundreds of black filmmakers are actually struggling everyday to get their stuff out without built in audiences or sweetheart distribution deals.  Daniels and Lee are a part of that group.  Do a search on either of them and listen to them talk about how difficult it is to find $ for their films.  Get your facts straight, brother."

Tyler Perry had to shop around for a deal (got turned down alot) & Lionsgate accepted him cause they was smart. It has always been "the chosen few" to make it in hollywood & ppl like Tyler Perry is one of them. You know John Singleton had hard time looking for studios to produce hustle & flow, rite? Tyler Perry also talk about studios not backing him on Black America on CNN.

WHITE HOLLYWOOD STILL DIDN'T BELIEVE IN HIM AFTER ALL OF HIS SUCCESSFUL MOVIES TO FUND "House Of Payne" at the very beginning (he funded it himself). A struggle is a struggle. Some are the worst then other.  

"Spike Lee has been giving us sexy dark skinned sisters since he started in the business.  As a matter of fact, he actually casts across the spectrum.  What are you talking about?  Tracy Camilla Johns(ok, more caramel, I guess)in She's Gotta Have It.  Kyme in School Daze.  Angela Basset in Malcom X.  Alfre Woodard in Crooklyn.  Regina Taylor was in Clockers--small role, but she still looked good Grin.  You get my point."

Kyme is the only dark skin woman you mention & I never saw the film School Daze (so I am not gonna comment on it). The rest are brown skin. Dark skin: Kelly Rowland, Naomi Campbell,. Buffie The Body, etc.  So, my point still stands. There need to more dark skin female leads like "How She Move."

"Spike includes racist white people in his films?  Well, yeah, if that's what the film call for.  Again, what are you talking about?  Huh Cheesy  A lot of Spike's films deal with race. You kinda need racist whites in a film dealing with racism."  

And that is problem: white ppl getting pay by black to say niggar in films. Shoot, alot of white racist folks would love to do that. That my only pet peeve about those type of films. You can make a movie about racism without white ppl. You just need to be creative.  

"Spike has moved on from all black films because he has progressed as an artist.  He still makes films with predominately black casts, but most black people nowadays don't live in some all chocolate vacuum.  In that way, he mirrors reality.  Many of us actually live and work in integrated spaces.

LOL, progress as an artist? You don't need to change the race of your characters in order to progress. Fighting aliens in space? Becoming a superhero? You can still make them blacks. SINCE WHEN TV, VIDEOGAMES, MOVIES, EVER BEEN REALISTIC WITH RACES? Look at "Friend", "Kick-Ass", tons of tons of white stuff. Why can't black movies be the same way?? That why 'Waiting To Exhale" was such a huge success. It was a different black book, cause it wasn't about white ppl being evil.

"And if you really think that Boyd's article was just about dissing Perry, I suggest you re-read it.   Cheesy"

Boy, when did I ever said that? Don't put words in my mouth & BOYD knew that him dissing Tyler Perry would get his stuff more media attention. Boyd dissing Tyler was MY MAIN FOCUS.

"True.  Perry did executive produce Precious.  Hmm, I wonder how that affects Afro Samurai's argument?  Wink"

My point still stand about Tyler Perry. I guess you're now a Tyler Perry fan since he produced a movie you're sticking up for.

"Anyway, I didn't mean for this to devolve into a Perry vs Daniels argument.  Or any director vs any director argument for that matter because that wasn't even the point of the article.  So apologies for the thread derail. Grin"

Boyd shouldn't had mention Tyler Perry name at all.

[voodoochild]

Dude, stop being in denial. You know she won that cause of the sex scene.

   Dog, what are you, twelve?  You don't actually believe that, do you? 

Lee Daniels already have a track record of promoting white supremacy & I already said that Tyler Perry does have color issues. How doe the movie: "Precious" show the girl is the victim of white supremacy when only the light skin mixed ppl & that white teacher were helping her??

 

Repetition of an opinion doesn't make it a fact.  We've shown that Perry has some type of color issues due to many of his casting choices.  However you have yet to prove that Daniels promotes white supremacy.  Does he also have color issues?  Maybe.  Casting strictly bi-racial heroes in Precious was puzzling.  But Daniels' only other directorial effort was the little seen Shadowboxer with Cuba Gooding as the lead.  Using Monster's Ball and Tennessee to try to "prove" your claim is weak as Daniels didn't write or direct either film.
 

It's a comedy dramas. They need comedy in there somewhere, unless it'll be all drama.

Nobody's saying his films shouldn't have comedic elements in them.  Even the most tragedy filled life has light moments.  The problem with Perry's films, particularly the ones with Madea or Brown in them, is that the humor is so broad and outrageous that it undercuts the heavy-handed drama of the rest of the film.  Take Meet the Browns for instance.  In it, he shows us the oldest son getting seduced by the streets and ultimately shot in the back.  Then Perry shoehorns all of these slapstick antics of Brown and co. which ultimately dilute the main storyline.  His comic relief characters don't fit.  It's not like these are characters who get in a humorous line or two.  Madea and Brown are full out clowns  They're caricatures from stupid sitcoms, not fleshed out, fully realized characters.   Perry's trying to jam a round peg into a square hole.  A more talented writer/director could maybe make these contradictions work within the narrative, but Perry ain't that dude.  LOL!

LMAO, ok now you just have a personal vendetta against the man. Spike Lee does the samething with "it's a spike lee joint." It called self promotion & to raise his status higher as a director/producer/actor.......aint nothing wrong with that. "Tyler Perry Present" his is "branding"... that's a smart business move & I love when black ppl brag about ourselves.

Not at all.  Spike Lee actually does not do the same thing.  He drops "A Spike Lee Joint" in his credits and one sheets and leaves it at that.  That's self promotion.  Perry has to put his name FIRST.  Even over the title of the damn movie (which tells you what he thinks is more important  ).   And then, as the credits roll, his name is peppered throughout.  He even gave himself top billing over Angela Basset in Meet the Browns.  What kind of bullsh*t is that?    Look, talent speaks louder than self aggrandizement.  Perry isn't promoting himself.  He's masturbating to his own delusion of grandeur.  He's like the P. Diddy of cinema.  A great self promoter with minimal actual talent.

So more people can see it. Like how Blade 3, wasn't really about Blade at all. Also it could be the name of the original play & Tyler want ppl who liked that play to watch the movie with the same name. Movie, music, etc. that we don't like will always be dishonest in our opinions.

    That doesn't even make sense.  What does Blade 3 have to do with every Tyler Perry film being officially listed as Tyler Perry's...insert actual film title here...?  If he thinks that he has to put his name in front of every one of his productions to make sure his audience knows that it's his and it's safe to attend, that shows that he has no actual faith in his audience.

TP Fan #1: Hey girl, there's a new Madea movie staring this weekend. Want to go?
TP Fan #2: Ion't know chile.  Is Tyler's name on it?  I don't wanna see no movie with a bunch a' cussin' and stuff in it.
TP Fan #1:  Girl it's Madea.  Of course it's Tyler's.  It's got incest and drug abuse in it but you know it ain't got no cussin' in it.
TP Fan #2: Well...I guess.  You sure it's Tyler's movie?
TP Fan #1: Girl...

From the movie trailers saying it "magical, wonderful, experience" to the rapper saying "its his best work since his first album".... and us completely disagreeing with those statements will be dishonest TO US.  I don't know why Tyler Perry choose to act in drag. Maybe he thought it was funnier that way. But, I really don't know why and I don't see any problem with him acting in drag. Also, Spike Lee starred in his own films as well.

Spike does act in many of his own films, but the difference is he doesn't feel the need to list the supporting character he plays over his actual lead character.  Nor does he put his name first over the actual title of the movie.  Spike promotes the movie.  Perry promotes Perry.  You seem to be a Tyler Perry 'Stan' so I guess you wouldn't have a problem with him acting in drag.     j/k

He is not a happy go lucky slave to white folk. He's just a stupid kind man that is a Deacon. That more Bojangles will ever be.

OK, now you're not even arguing logically.    Of course Brown isn't a happy go lucky slave.  His character is a modern one, not one set in the 19th century.  What Brown is though is a happy go lucky colored buffoon lifted directly from the exact same caricatures and stereotypes that Stepin Fetchit, etc were forced to play back in the early to mid 20th century.  Here's the contradiction and hypocrisy with Perry fans; if Brown was created by a white writer/director, they would be, rightly so, screaming for blood.  But since he was created and promoted by their boy Perry, it's OK.  Absolute bullsh*t. 

He had to fight to keep the whole cast black in his movies & tv shows. Hollywood wanted to add more white folks, Tyler Perry said no and did it his own way. He had to show and prove that black ppl & other races like black movies. Hollywood don't even acknowledge black consumers.

I'll give you that.  Hollywood doesn't acknowledge Black consumers.  That doesn't excuse Perry from talking down to us and lowering the collective expectation of Black audiences though.

Kyme is the only dark skin woman you mention & I never saw the film School Daze (so I am not gonna comment on it). The rest are brown skin. Dark skin: Kelly Rowland, Naomi Campbell,. Buffie The Body, etc.  So, my point still stands. There need to more dark skin female leads like "How She Move."

You've never seen School Daze?  What??  To Netflix with you sir!  Stat!   You know that none of those personalities you just mentioned are actual actresses right?  They've never appeared in Spike's, Daniels', or Perry's films.  I'm just saying...

And that is problem: white ppl getting pay by black to say niggar in films. Shoot, alot of white racist folks would love to do that. That my only pet peeve about those type of films. You can make a movie about racism without white ppl. You just need to be creative.

So, now I'm really confused.  Are you suggesting Spike should have made Jungle Fever, Do the Right Thing,  and Malcolm X without whites?     How is that even possible?  Are you kidding? 

LOL, progress as an artist? You don't need to change the race of your characters in order to progress. Fighting aliens in space? Becoming a superhero? You can still make them blacks. SINCE WHEN TV, VIDEOGAMES, MOVIES, EVER BEEN REALISTIC WITH RACES? Look at "Friend", "Kick-Ass", tons of tons of white stuff. Why can't black movies be the same way?? That why 'Waiting To Exhale" was such a huge success. It was a different black book, cause it wasn't about white ppl being evil.

Again, your post here doesn't even make contextual sense.  What does that rant have to do with Perry, Boyd, Daniels, or Lee?  Who's changing races?  What does Waiting to Exhale/Kick-Ass/Friends have to do with anything?  What are you talking about? 

Boy, when did I ever said that? Don't put words in my mouth & BOYD knew that him dissing Tyler Perry would get his stuff more media attention. Boyd dissing Tyler was MY MAIN FOCUS.

Sigh...

Not really, if I am writing how wonderful Spike Lee is, I wouldn't insult any other black directors along the way. I brought up Spike Lee cause he was dissing Tyler Perry as well. Boyd, knows that him dissing Tyler Perry would the the highlight of his writing. And I am tired of black hollywood tearing each other down.

 

My point still stand about Tyler Perry. I guess you're now a Tyler Perry fan since he produced a movie you're sticking up for.

Nope.  Perry came in after Precious was already in the can.  He had no creative influence over the final product.  Thank God.  Otherwise Precious would have ended with, like, Shemar Moore sweeping Precious off her feet and attending a church service to make everything wrap up nice, neat, and simple.  Props to Perry for helping get the film to theatres though.

Wait..

Since you're a Perry fan, shouldn't you be in love with Precious?  Perry produced it and according to you, the man is above reproach and can do no wrong.   

Boyd shouldn't had mention Tyler Perry name at all.

Why?  Because you think that Tyler Perry should be critic proof?  Please.   

[Afro Samurai]

"  Dog, what are you, twelve?  You don't actually believe that, do you?  "

U really can't be that stupid to think she won it for her acting skills. You likely think all white cops who pull over black drivers aren't racial profiling them. HAHAHA@ignorance! Wake ur common sense the f*ck up boy.

"Repetition of an opinion doesn't make it a fact.  We've shown that Perry has some type of color issues due to many of his casting choices.  However you have yet to prove that Daniels promotes white supremacy.  Does he also have color issues?  Maybe.  Casting strictly bi-racial heroes in Precious was puzzling.  But Daniels' only other directorial effort was the little seen Shadowboxer with Cuba Gooding as the lead.  Using Monster's Ball and Tennessee to try to "prove" your claim is weak as Daniels didn't write or direct either film."

Um, it's a fact that Lee Daniels promote white supremacy with those racist-ass films. So if a black man produced movies on how wonderful white ppl r, how in the hell IS THAT NOT promoting white supremacy? Also, he did it 3 times.......I prove you wrong 3 times. Also, Shadowboxer had Cuba pair up with a white lady.........another prime example of white supremacy.  
 
"Nobody's saying his films shouldn't have comedic elements in them.  Even the most tragedy filled life has light moments.  The problem with Perry's films, particularly the ones with Madea or Brown in them, is that the humor is so broad and outrageous that it undercuts the heavy-handed drama of the rest of the film.  Take Meet the Browns for instance.  In it, he shows us the oldest son getting seduced by the streets and ultimately shot in the back.  Then Perry shoehorns all of these slapstick antics of Brown and co. which ultimately dilute the main storyline.  His comic relief characters don't fit.  It's not like these are characters who get in a humorous line or two.  Madea and Brown are full out clowns  They're caricatures from stupid sitcoms, not fleshed out, fully realized characters.   Perry's trying to jam a round peg into a square hole.  A more talented writer/director could maybe make these contradictions work within the narrative, but Perry ain't that dude.  LOL!"

Not really at all. Madea's Family Reunion had a scene in which Madea was talking to Lisa about her controlling husband. There's no jokes in that scene AT ALL. Other scenes in that movie & other films are the sameway as well. Again, it's a comedy drama. LOL@ the dissing skills of Tyler Perry.  

"Not at all.  Spike Lee actually does not do the same thing.  He drops "A Spike Lee Joint" in his credits and one sheets and leaves it at that.  That's self promotion.  Perry has to put his name FIRST.  Even over the title of the damn movie (which tells you what he thinks is more important  ).   And then, as the credits roll, his name is peppered throughout.  He even gave himself top billing over Angela Basset in Meet the Browns.  What kind of bullsh*t is that?    Look, talent speaks louder than self aggrandizement.  Perry isn't promoting himself.  He's masturbating to his own delusion of grandeur.  He's like the P. Diddy of cinema.  A great self promoter with minimal actual talent."

LMAO, stop being in denial. In most of his trailers it stated "A Spike Lee Joint" it the same damn thing. WOW@P. Diddy having no talent. Diddy is an extremely talented dude......and I DONT EVEN LIKE HIS MUSIC, LMAO.

"  That doesn't even make sense.  What does Blade 3 have to do with every Tyler Perry film being officially listed as Tyler Perry's...insert actual film title here...?  If he thinks that he has to put his name in front of every one of his productions to make sure his audience knows that it's his and it's safe to attend, that shows that he has no actual faith in his audience."

It does make perfect sense. We're talking about the reason why Medea name is listed in the title, despite not being the main star (I already explain the reason behind "Tyler Perry Present"). It's for other brand new characters to get shine off of Medea. Like with opening acts for big names like 50 cent & Jay-z. It could also be the original name of the play and those play goers want to see it in movie form.

"TP Fan #1: Hey girl, there's a new Madea movie staring this weekend. Want to go?
TP Fan #2: Ion't know chile.  Is Tyler's name on it?  I don't wanna see no movie with a bunch a' cussin' and stuff in it.
TP Fan #1:  Girl it's Madea.  Of course it's Tyler's.  It's got incest and drug abuse in it but you know it ain't got no cussin' in it.
TP Fan #2: Well...I guess.  You sure it's Tyler's movie?
TP Fan #1: Girl..."

Now, this was useless^........


"Spike does act in many of his own films, but the difference is he doesn't feel the need to list the supporting character he plays over his actual lead character.  Nor does he put his name first over the actual title of the movie.  Spike promotes the movie.  Perry promotes Perry.  You seem to be a Tyler Perry 'Stan' so I guess you wouldn't have a problem with him acting in drag.    j/k"

If it a "spike lee joint" then he is promoting himself just like Tyler Perry. Also here is a shocker for you: I liked Spike Lee movies more then Tyler Perry's.  

"OK, now you're not even arguing logically.    Of course Brown isn't a happy go lucky slave.  His character is a modern one, not one set in the 19th century.  What Brown is though is a happy go lucky colored buffoon lifted directly from the exact same caricatures and stereotypes that Stepin Fetchit, etc were forced to play back in the early to mid 20th century.  Here's the contradiction and hypocrisy with Perry fans; if Brown was created by a white writer/director, they would be, rightly so, screaming for blood.  But since he was created and promoted by their boy Perry, it's OK.  Absolute bullsh*t.  "

Actually Halle Berry character in Monster Ball was a modern slave. No, there wouldn't be no huge outrage  from blacks if a white person created him among with different type of blacks. Spawn & Afro Samurai are called demon & evil yet alot of black ppl didn't complain at all......and they were created by non-blacks.

"You've never seen School Daze?  What??  To Netflix with you sir!  Stat!   You know that none of those personalities you just mentioned are actual actresses right?  They've never appeared in Spike's, Daniels', or Perry's films.  I'm just saying..."

Dude, I am just showing you the difference between dark skin & brown skin women. Kelly Rowland ain't really an actress but she was in "Smart Guy." Dark Skin actresses: Jill Marie Jones, Camille Winbush, Naturi Naughton, Rutina Wesley, etc. The only reason I brought up this point about Spike Lee, is to show that he got fault with color issues as well. But, that doesn't make him & Tyler sell outs.

"So, now I'm really confused.  Are you suggesting Spike should have made Jungle Fever, Do the Right Thing,  and Malcolm X without whites?     How is that even possible?  Are you kidding?"

That is only problem I have Spike Lee films. It focus too much on white ppl being evil & not enuff about our world. Spike Lee could had black ppl in white faces being racist in those films, he could just talk about white being racist and not shown them. I can't believe u never thought of this...... also Jungle Fever should had never been made at all.  

"Again, your post here doesn't even make contextual sense.  What does that rant have to do with Perry, Boyd, Daniels, or Lee?  Who's changing races?  What does Waiting to Exhale/Kick-Ass/Friends have to do with anything?  What are you talking about?"

omg, do you even read your own stuff? Here what I was replying to:

"Spike has moved on from all black films because he has progressed as an artist.  He still makes films with predominately black casts, but most black people nowadays don't live in some all chocolate vacuum.  In that way, he mirrors reality.  Many of us actually live and work in integrated spaces."

You made up some dumb ass excuse on why Spike & other black film makers don't make all black cast movies & I reply to it. It's so simple to comprehend to what I am saying.  

Sigh...

What? If seeing Storm in X-men is my main focus, that doesn't mean I think that is the main plot of the X-men series.

<i>""</i>

Did I ever called Spike Lee: stupid, useless, etc. Noooooooo. I am just pointing out his faults as well. If Spike Lee complain about Tyler's color issues, stereotypes, etc. then imma point out Spike Lee's as well.

"Nope.  Perry came in after Precious was already in the can.  He had no creative influence over the final product.  Thank God.  Otherwise Precious would have ended with, like, Shemar Moore sweeping Precious off her feet and attending a church service to make everything wrap up nice, neat, and simple.  Props to Perry for helping get the film to theatres though."

Tyler Perry still produced it. You need to praise him for producing that sh*tty movie. And he shouldn't be a sell out to you, since he produced that film you love so much.  

"Wait..

Since you're a Perry fan, shouldn't you be in love with Precious?  Perry produced it and according to you, the man is above reproach and can do no wrong.   "

Boy, can you comprehend & stop making sh*t up that I didn't say. I said Tyler Perry has color issues but isn't a sell out. But, hey you r a big fan of Precious & should be Tyler Perry biggest fan.     

"Why?  Because you think that Tyler Perry should be critic proof?  Please.   "


No, cause that Boyd is just hating. I never saw/read no piece praising Tyler Perry while insulting Spike Lee, John Singleton, etc.  

[Redjack]

it doesn't matter if Tyler perry is "good" or "bad" in Hollywood. he has demonstrated a sound business model. he puts in a very small amount of money and returns a LOT more. He is, essentially, duplicating the model that Woody Allen has been using for, well, ever.

Perry has a sizable and rock solid audience who can be counted on to buy his product. I'm not in that audience btw but, I'm fairly sure, that audience isn't running out to buy my next scifi extravaganza either. Or my comics.

The automatic comparison between him and Lee and Wilson (or whoever) is artificial. It's only because they're all black. Nobody is making similar comparisons between, say, Billy Wilder and Orson Welles.

Spike Lee makes "serious" films that are about something both stylistically and thematically. That his focus has been Black Life for most of his career isn't relevant. He's a completely different sort of filmmaker than Perry who has mad his success by preaching to the choir, literally. He doesn't challenge anyone;he doesn't make or expect anyone to actually think; he doesn't challenge his audience; he expects and he gets "Amens" and nods.

Wilson and Lee challenged their audiences, directly, to examine their notions of family, race, nation, culture and justice among other things and they came at each in more aggressive and, frankly, complex ways. To say they are superior artists is not to exaggerate but to limit Hollywood success to artistry alone is too simplistic. Neither of those men have Perry's business acumen. That is also a fact.

It may be that August Wilson is "our" Arthur Miller and that his work isn't as transcendent as it needs to be to catch a wide, non-black audience.Maybe. I don't know. I do know that rushing to the bottom, the lowest common denominator is never a way to go broke in Hollywood.

As a minority subculture who had it's nascent film industry destroyed by Hollywood, we have all been conditioned to accept the White Male or Female Lead as representative of generic humanity. The majority population has only BEGUN, in the last two decades, to accept black men and women (mostly men) in the same role. They are a century behind us on that score at least. I don't think it's a coincidence that, at the same time, whites are becoming the minority in a mostly brown America.

FWIW: I submitted a stage play, DARK PEOPLE, to the Public Theatre in NYC some years ago and it was rejected. No big deal there. Most plays are rejected for host of reasons. Usually because they're crappy. DARK PEOPLE could be crappy. How can i tell? But crappines wasn't the reason it was bounced.  

I was fascinated by the reason given for this particular thumbs down. Was it the subject matter? No. Was it the cost of the production? No.

In a personal letter to me the theatre's artistic director claimed the reason the play, focusing on five blacks one latino, one asian and one white, and dealt with cops, movie execs, gangsters and black supremicists, was bounced was because it was "too cerebral."

This in a theatre climate that gave us stage plays about nuns combatting priests over child molestation, physicists coming up with esoteric theories during a chance meeting in a drawing room, journalists tricking American Presidents into admitting high crimes and endless monologues about female genitalia and the social consequences of being born with them.

Too cerebral.

For who?

[Battle]

In a personal letter to me the theatre's artistic director claimed the reason the play, focusing on five blacks one latino, one asian and one white, and dealt with cops, movie execs, gangsters and black supremicists, was bounced was because it was "too cerebral."

This in a theatre climate that gave us stage plays about nuns combatting priests over child molestation, physicists coming up with esoteric theories during a chance meeting in a drawing room, journalists tricking American Presidents into admitting high crimes and endless monologues about female genitalia and the social consequences of being born with them.

Too cerebral.

For who?

I had to smile at that one!

[Redjack]

There are a lot of prejudices flying around the film and theatre worlds and not all of them fall into the black/white paradigm.

Even within our subculture there are splits, class based, I think, on what constitutes "good" theatre and what is "trash."

All these religious plays with titles like GIRL, I HAD 2 MEN AND BOTH OF THEM WERE THE DEVIL, are the sort of work that sends me screaming for the tylenol bottle but, the fact is, the asses are in the seats for them. they have a large audience that feels it's being served. Who am i to begrudge them the sort of theatre they like?

I think the same can be said for these perceived quality differences between creators like Mr. Lee vs those more in the Mr. Perry vein. Again, that sort of thing is in the eye of the beholder. I have yet to make it to the end of a single Tyler Perry product but he's filling theatres and getting people to watch his television. That means there's an audience that's being served.

Just because they're all black doesn't mean that the writers in question are, necessarily, limiting themselves to reaching a black audience or even to reaching ALL the black audience.  As with non-black artists and their audiences, it's time Black Americans stopped lumping all the Black creators in the same barrel simply because of their skin color. That's what the bad guys have done to us over the centuries and we really shouldn't do it for them.

It's like the philosophers said:

You know life is all about expression
you only live once and you're not coming back
So express YOURSELF.

Express yourSELF. You gotta be you and ONLY you, baby.
Express YOURself. Let me be ME.
Express yourself. Don't tell me what I cannot do, baby.
Come on. Work that body.

 

[voodoochild]

U really can't be that stupid to think she won it for her acting skills. You likely think all white cops who pull over black drivers aren't racial profiling them. HAHAHA@ignorance! Wake ur common sense the f*ck up boy.

Samurai, all jokes aside...What the HELL are you talking about?  White cops?!  Racial profiling?!  I don't understand what that has to do with your childish, ill-informed opinion of how Halle Berry won her Oscar.  Do you even understand how the Academy Awards work?  Obviously not because you actually seem to believe that an actress can get one by simulating sex onscreen.  It's the Academy Awards, brother, not the AVN Awards! 

Um, it's a fact that Lee Daniels promote white supremacy with those racist-ass films. So if a black man produced movies on how wonderful white ppl r, how in the hell IS THAT NOT promoting white supremacy? Also, he did it 3 times.......I prove you wrong 3 times. Also, Shadowboxer had Cuba pair up with a white lady.........another prime example of white supremacy.

What facts?  You've posted a sum total of Zero facts on this subject.  All you've posted are speculative race based fantasies.  You accuse one Black filmmaker of promoting white supremacy because he makes films that clearly make you uncomfortable on a deep racial level.  Then you turn around and tap dance around the color issues and buffoonery of another Black filmmaker just because he employs a lot of Black talent. Mr. Brown's broad, ethnic based clowning and emasculated Black males in drag are the direct result of a mind affected by white supremacy.
 

Not really at all. Madea's Family Reunion had a scene in which Madea was talking to Lisa about her controlling husband. There's no jokes in that scene AT ALL. Other scenes in that movie & other films are the sameway as well. Again, it's a comedy drama. LOL@ the dissing skills of Tyler Perry.

Right.  And that's the problem with the Madea movies.  Perry wants the audience to laugh it up at a character that is obviously a man dressed as an older black woman.  Madea gets all the best lines and gets to pull pistols on people and fight the police and have all these absurd comic moments.  Then, when Perry wants to get "serious", he needs the audience to suspend their disbelief and accept this drag character as an actual woman of great wisdom.  See, that doesn't work and kinda insults the intelligence of the audience and the work of the artists onscreen.  He tries to have it both ways and it doesn't work....well I mean, it doesn't work for those non-LCD audience members who aren't die hard fans.   Perry apologists like to point at Flip Wilson's Geraldine and Martin Lawrence's Sheneneh as other examples of Black comics with popular drag characters, but that's a lame comparison.  Wilson and Lawrence never tried to shoehorn their outrageous characters into realistic situations.  Geraldine and Sheneneh existed solely in clear, sitcom-ish worlds.  Perry wants us to accept Madea as a wizened old matriarch.
 

LMAO, stop being in denial. In most of his trailers it stated "A Spike Lee Joint" it the same damn thing. WOW@P. Diddy having no talent. Diddy is an extremely talented dude......and I DONT EVEN LIKE HIS MUSIC, LMAO.

See, like many Perry apologists and Stans, you're in denial.  Lee stops at "A Spike Lee Joint".  Perry has to list and re-list himself in his opening credits to remind us all how great he believes he is.  I'll be interested to see if he puts his name over "For Colored Girls..."

In what way is Diddy talented?  Can he rap?  Please.  Sing? Yeah, no.  Act? Ha!  He's a good dancer, I guess, but that's a prerequisite in what passes for Black music these days.  He's great at self promotion and getting paid off the talent of others.  If you consider that "extremely talented", then that says a lot about you.

It does make perfect sense. We're talking about the reason why Medea name is listed in the title, despite not being the main star (I already explain the reason behind "Tyler Perry Present"). It's for other brand new characters to get shine off of Medea. Like with opening acts for big names like 50 cent & Jay-z. It could also be the original name of the play and those play goers want to see it in movie form.

ummm...ok...

Now, this was useless^........

Yeah, but it was funny, though.

If it a "spike lee joint" then he is promoting himself just like Tyler Perry. Also here is a shocker for you: I liked Spike Lee movies more then Tyler Perry's.  

Oddly, I don't believe you.  LOL! You haven't even seen School Daze.  Have you seen She's Gotta Have It?  You probably also haven't seen Malcolm X because...wait for it...it's got racist whites in it using the dreaded N-word!!!!!!  So, according to Afro Samurai logic, Spike Lee promoted white supremacy by making Malcolm X.

Actually Halle Berry character in Monster Ball was a modern slave. No, there wouldn't be no huge outrage  from blacks if a white person created him among with different type of blacks. Spawn & Afro Samurai are called demon & evil yet alot of black ppl didn't complain at all......and they were created by non-blacks.

How was she a modern slave?  Did she work for white people for no pay?  Was she denied an education, or the right to marry? 

No, there wouldn't be no huge outrage  from blacks if a white person created him among with different type of blacks.

Decipher this sentence for me, would ya?  I think you're trying to say that a white creator wouldn't be criticized by black people for creating a Mr. Brown type character if he created other black characters as well.  If that's what that sentence meant, nonsense.  It's 2010.  We've got presidents, lawyers, surgeons, cops, etc.  We should be WAAY past creating fools like Mr. Brown. 

Dude, I am just showing you the difference between dark skin & brown skin women. Kelly Rowland ain't really an actress but she was in "Smart Guy." Dark Skin actresses: Jill Marie Jones, Camille Winbush, Naturi Naughton, Rutina Wesley, etc. The only reason I brought up this point about Spike Lee, is to show that he got fault with color issues as well. But, that doesn't make him & Tyler sell outs.

I...guess...

That is only problem I have Spike Lee films. It focus too much on white ppl being evil & not enuff about our world. Spike Lee could had black ppl in white faces being racist in those films, he could just talk about white being racist and not shown them. I can't believe u never thought of this...... also Jungle Fever should had never been made at all.

What?  You need to go back and look at all of his films again.  You sound like all those Spike Lee critics who claim he talks about race too much.  He's only actually made three films that deal specifically with race.  Do the Right Thing, Jungle Fever, and Bamboozled.  Your ignorance of his catalog is sad.  Lee has been making films about "our world", as you put it, since his college days. 
What does

Spike Lee could had black ppl in white faces...yadda yadda

even mean? Putting black actors in whiteface like Bamboozled in reverse?  I hope that's not what you meant because that's asinine. 
There's no visceral impact in having a movie where bunch of Black actors sit around and talk about racism just to prevent offending sensitive e-militants.  That's not cinema, that's documentary.
Why should Jungle Fever never have been made?  Because it offends your delicate racial sensibilities?  How old are you? 

You made up some dumb ass excuse on why Spike & other black film makers don't make all black cast movies & I reply to it. It's so simple to comprehend to what I am saying.

So, Spike and other Black filmmakers making integrated films because we live in an integrated world is a "dumb ass excuse".  Dog, seriously...how old are you?  

Did I ever called Spike Lee: stupid, useless, etc. Noooooooo. I am just pointing out his faults as well. If Spike Lee complain about Tyler's color issues, stereotypes, etc. then imma point out Spike Lee's as well.

I was joking earlier, but you really are a Stan.

Tyler Perry still produced it. You need to praise him for producing that sh*tty movie. And he shouldn't be a sell out to you, since he produced that film you love so much.  


Boy, can you comprehend & stop making sh*t up that I didn't say. I said Tyler Perry has color issues but isn't a sell out. But, hey you r a big fan of Precious & should be Tyler Perry biggest fan. 

See, now you're making sh*t up.  I liked Precious.  Didn't love it.  Not a fan. 

Lemme ask you a question Afro Samurai. Why is it ok for Perry to have, by your own admission, color issues and not be a "sell out", but Daniels has to be some great and evil promoter of white supremacy because he made a couple of movies you don't like?    

No, cause that Boyd is just hating. I never saw/read no piece praising Tyler Perry while insulting Spike Lee, John Singleton, etc.  

Black folks kill me with all this "hating" childishness.  Boyd or any Perry critic can't have an opinion.  They can't see flaws in an creator's work and express them publicly.  Nope.  They have to be 'hating'.  That's the most infantile idea this hip hop generation has created.

[Reginald40]

Brilliantly written observation on a great playwright, August Wilson.  If one of his plays were turned into a feature film, I would surely go see it.

[Mastrmynd]

people like dissin' Tyler Perry
they just do.
even though i am a fan of Tyler Perry (Yes, I was on his tv show but some of his i really do like...and dislike).
i've said it before, I don't like Mr. Brown. I just don't. He doesn't appeal to me.  He is TOO over-the-top.

[Catch22]

I don't know about people just dissin' Tyler Perry for no reason...there's plenty of reason there.  I've seen a grand total of two of his movies and an episode or two of House of Payne.  I must say, I'm not a fan.  I don't knock those that like his films, I just find them a little too simplistic and preachy.  This is from a guy that just goes to the movies to be entertained, who doesn't want to think too much...and I think his movies are simplistic.  Anyhow, yes...Mr. Brown is a poster boy for coonery...Tyler Perry as Madea makes me cringe, but his business model has made him a boatload of cash and he can probably say that he did it all himself.

[voodoochild]

Show of hands...

How many of you saw "Why Did I Get Married Too"?

A new low for Mr. Perry.  No hate, just straight up logical criticism.