Tea Party leader, Mark Williams says Muslims worship a "monkey god"

[michaelintp]

Geoff, equally horrific attacks to those on September 11th were prevented. That does not mean more are not in the works. The Jihadists have made their intentions clear. Their time-frame is not the 24-hour news cycle. Unlike us, they are not wedded to immediate gratification. And their attacks continue worldwide, as does their infiltration. As an example, look to the Pakistani intelligence service. Significant developments are on the horizon ... and they are not good. Nobody likes to talk about "weapons of mass destruction" but we do live in a world in which they do exist, and are proliferating.  Osama bin Laden, and those who agree with him, have made clear that one of their primary goals is to obtain such material.

You tend to go off on silly "strawman" characterizations of what I am saying. I've never once advocated "rounding people up" (only one person on this forum that I recall ever proclaimed that "they should be rounded up" ... and the reference was not to Muslims, but rather to another group he disagrees with ... and I've gotta believe that statment was made in a state of emotion, not to be taken seriously). Nor have I advocated passing out "good Muslim" "bad Muslim" I.D. cards. You are just being silly.

Of course there are intelligence gathering techniques that can be, and should be, used, with human intelligence being the most valuable. But that has not been the main thrust of my comments on this thread, nor is it that my main thrust at all. I will leave that to the experts.

All I am advocating is that we not be afraid to state who the Jihadist enemy is, and what about his ideology we find repugnant (and there is plenty ... that has nothing do with the beliefs held by religious moderate Muslims). In other words, all I am saying is that we should not be afraid to be honest. There is nothing "bigoted" in honestly describing the Jihadist ideology for what it is. While clearly distinguishing that ideology from the faith held by the majority of Muslims who reject that extremism, and who are the primary victims of it.

If we to do so, we would merit greater respect. And have better shot at working with moderate Muslims worldwide in their development of moderate alternatives to that extremism. And things stand now, we just look like a bunch of fools.

[Redjack]

I'm not being silly.

If you're calling for our intelligence services to do the job they've been tasked with, well, guess what, they are.

If you want to ratchet up the level of hysteria in both the West and the Muslim world AS A WHOLE, he simplest easiest way would be for the leader of the West, a non-Muslim, to stand on a pedestal and start pointing fingers at who and ho is not a "jihadist."

One person's terrorist is another person's activist and it's extremely simplistic thinking to suppose the sort of basic declarations you advocate would do more good than harm. What they would do, in reality, is further cement the ties between those who are on the margins of Muslim society and those in the center. It would FURTHER exacerbate the US vs THEM (ALL of them) mentality that already has too much purchase in too many minds.

I don't make silly arguments, Michael. Not one time, ever, in my life have I made such an argument. Not even when I was a child.

I'm pointing out, by the use of obviously ludicrous examples, the end point of your assertions or the basic illogic of any attempt to bring them into the real world.

America will never see itself as under siege until the entire world is lined up against us and working to bring us down. That's not going to happen and it's certainly not in effect now so calls for increased hysteria and ratcheted up paranoia are, to me, calls for us to actually become the Monster Nation that too many around the world already believe us to be.

Sorry, man. I love my country far too much for that.

[michaelintp]

I disagree with you, you disagree with me.  We will never convince one another.

You think I'm paranoid, am fostering bigotry and jeopardizing freedom in America and I think you are whitewashing the scope and magnitude of the threat, denying facts and making it much easier for the Jihadists to operate.

We will never agree.

Honest, why don't we just call it a day. I'm sure at this point nobody else is reading this damned thread anyway. 

[BmoreAkuma]

Yep we stopped reading this thread maybe 2 weeks ago or so.

[Battle]

You think I'm paranoid, am fostering bigotry and jeopardizing freedom in America and I think you are whitewashing the scope and magnitude of the threat, denying facts and making it much easier for the Jihadists to operate.

Y'mean, you're not paranoid?   ...or fostering bigotry?  ...jeopardizing freedom in America?




What exactly were you doing here in HEF for the last 3.5 years, mike?

[michaelintp]

3 1/2 years?!!!  I was on the HEF while your mother was still changing your diapers.

Gee Battle, one would think you were trying to hurt my feelings, hahahahaha. 

[Battle]

3 1/2 years?!!!  I was on the HEF while your mother was still changing your diapers.

Gee Battle, one would think you were trying to hurt my feelings, hahahahaha. 

One thing you should have learned about me here at HEF is that I don't 'hurt anyone's feelings'  ?   
I offer you 'insight'.


Say, maybe you can answer this question for me 'cause I've always wanted to know:

When it comes to certain kinds of discussions dealing with race, politics and (mainly race) why do white folks say things like,

"...I don't wanna hurt your feelings but..."

[michaelintp]

3 1/2 years?!!!  I was on the HEF while your mother was still changing your diapers.

Gee Battle, one would think you were trying to hurt my feelings, hahahahaha.  

One thing you should have learned about me here at HEF is that I don't 'hurt anyone's feelings'  ?  
I offer you 'insight'.
Say, maybe you can answer this question for me 'cause I've always wanted to know:
When it comes to certain kinds of discussions dealing with race, politics and (mainly race) why do white folks say things like,
"...I don't wanna hurt your feelings but..."

Battle, I don't wanna hurt your feelings, but do you really believe you are offering insight?

Hahahahahaha! OK, Battle, you've put a smile on my face.  

As to your question regarding white people saying "I don't want to hurt your feelings but ..." -

First, I've gotta say, if I hear one more silly thing about "white people" on this Forum I think I'm gonna throw up.

But, putting that aside, *urp!* ... I would imagine someone says "I don't want to hurt your feelings but ..." when they are afraid what they are about to say may be disturbing to the other person. If they really are concered about the other person's feelings. Or they want to communicate that they don't have bad intent. Some white folk have been so cowed by the fear of not being politically correct that they feel uncomfortable even talking about controversial issues surrounding race with someone who is black, particularly issues surrounding "problems in the black community" and so on, for fear that they will be unfairly perceived to be racist, or unfairly accused of racism, or racial insensitivity, or some such thing. But really, I dunno. You would have to explain the context of what you are talkin' about.

It is hard for me to identify with this attitude, since I find the concern regarding political correctness when talking to a "person of color" to be patronizing at best and condescending at worst. I don't see why mature adults, as individuals, can't honestly discuss any issue, by just laying the facts, and their opinions, on the table. Race should play no role in causing "self-editing" of the discussions.

I imagine sometimes someone might also say, "I don't want to hurt your feelings but ..." in reference not to the race of the listener, but rather to what they perceive to be the intelligence of the person they are addressing. Even where both persons of the same race are debating an issue, one might say this to the other ... as a slam on the other person's capacity for insight. Kind of like, "I don't want to hurt your feelings but ... you're a real idiot." The "I don't want to hurt your feelings' is said in a tone of sarcasm.

I would have to know more about the context to figure out what the person was trying to tell you.

I guess it is worth noting that the phrase you cite is different than somone saying "Sorry to tell you this but ..." or "I hate to say this but ..." as those phrases are usually said by someone who really does want to say what he is about to say, and may be saying it in exasperation or ... maybe just with a smirk.

[Battle]

3 1/2 years?!!!  I was on the HEF while your mother was still changing your diapers.

Gee Battle, one would think you were trying to hurt my feelings, hahahahaha.  

One thing you should have learned about me here at HEF is that I don't 'hurt anyone's feelings'  ?  
I offer you 'insight'.
Say, maybe you can answer this question for me 'cause I've always wanted to know:
When it comes to certain kinds of discussions dealing with race, politics and (mainly race) why do white folks say things like,
"...I don't wanna hurt your feelings but..."

Battle, I don't wanna hurt your feelings, but do you really believe you are offering insight?

Hahahahahaha! OK, Battle, you've put a smile on my face.  

As to your question regarding white people saying "I don't want to hurt your feelings but ..." -

First, I've gotta say, if I hear one more silly thing about "white people" on this Forum I think I'm gonna throw up.

But, putting that aside, *urp!* ... I would imagine someone says "I don't want to hurt your feelings but ..." when they are afraid what they are about to say may be disturbing to the other person. If they really are concered about the other person's feelings. Or they want to communicate that they don't have bad intent. Some white folk have been so cowed by the fear of not being politically correct that they feel uncomfortable even talking about controversial issues surrounding race with someone who is black, particularly issues surrounding "problems in the black community" and so on, for fear that they will be unfairly perceived to be racist, or unfairly accused of racism, or racial insensitivity, or some such thing. But really, I dunno. You would have to explain the context of what you are talkin' about.

It is hard for me to identify with this attitude, since I find the concern regarding political correctness when talking to a "person of color" to be patronizing at best and condescending at worst. I don't see why mature adults, as individuals, can't honestly discuss any issue, by just laying the facts, and their opinions, on the table. Race should play no role in causing "self-editing" of the discussions.

I imagine sometimes someone might also say, "I don't want to hurt your feelings but ..." in reference not to the race of the listener, but rather to what they perceive to be the intelligence of the person they are addressing. Even where both persons of the same race are debating an issue, one might say this to the other ... as a slam on the other person's capacity for insight. Kind of like, "I don't want to hurt your feelings but ... you're a real idiot." The "I don't want to hurt your feelings' is said in a tone of sarcasm.

I would have to know more about the context to figure out what the person was trying to tell you.

I guess it is worth noting that the phrase you cite is different than somone saying "Sorry to tell you this but ..." or "I hate to say this but ..." as those phrases are usually said by someone who really does want to say what he is about to say, and may be saying it in exasperation or ... maybe just with a smirk.

Nah...

It must be a regional expression 'cause I've only that kind of remark since I arrived in South Carolina several years ago.   I've lived in California, Illinois, Maine, New York,  a bit of Texas, even Mississippi but I've never that expression until I came to South Carolina.