There have been many, many stories that have established T'Challa as perfect, or as close to perfect as anyone in the Marvel U can be. But if we're to regard him as human we need to address his flaws as well as his strengths.
---J. Maberry
per•fect: being entirely without fault or defect
Comic book fans can be rabid, crazy, and more. We love our characters, and often time we take real interest in these characters because we are invested in them.
Most people on this forum are Black Panther fans. Sadly with Doomwar, even though it’s a good read. The title represents a huge missed opportunity and indifference and horrible misjudgment from marvel and the creative team.
It really does not make sense to totally alienate the small but loyal hard core fan base that T’challa has…there is no excuse for it at all. There is simply no way to explain it away. It doesn’t make sense to totally ignore how The Deadliest of the Species set up a possible rematch and revenge story between T’challa and Doom…and that he arcs after it did the same thing…only to totally shift in an entirely new direction.
T’challa is the only minority character in comics (besides Spawn, who is disfigured) that has shown the ability to hold a solo title. Not Storm, Not Luke Cage, Not anyone else. Even though his title struggles and has its ups and downs (which in my opinion is dude a number of differing issues). He has a very loyal, but fractured fan base that just wants to see the best for the character.
So some reason, Marvel can never get it together with this character. For every thing that they do that is great; things that are positive steps forward, they do something stupid and foolish that take the character several steps backward.
But I digress.
Perfect? T’challa and perfect should really never be used in the same sentence unless we are talking about his prior physical condition. T’challa has *never* been perfect. This passage was really disturbing in my opinion. More so then calling Shuri a thug, Because when you take two comments into consideration…it shows that the creative teams is listening to people who are not fans of The Black Panther, people who *never* will be fans…and are probably not even reading the book…haters, defenders of the status quo. Thus Doomwar no longer being a Black Panther title, which was what the book was bash for early on, and it’s the same reason that the small but hard core fans base of T’challa…are leaving the title…and thus major decline in sales.
It’s one thing to explore his many flaws. Like his inferiority to his father leadership as king. How he never knew his real mother, and how the person he regarded as mother was held hostage for over 10 years. How about the fact that even when he plans, they don’t always go how he wants…how even his closet friends and allies don’t trust him. How being the king that he can be lonely, until recently with his marriage to Storm...who should be the only persons besides the Queen Mother who he shows his emotions. How about watching his father and people be slaughter in front of his eyes…there are other ways of exploring flaws…without making a hero look like a chump.
There have been many, many stories that have established T'Challa as perfect, or as close to perfect as anyone in the Marvel U can be
You mean like Thor or Captain America Steve Rogers. The later being the most perfect character aside of Superman. Really…T’challa is like that…get out of here. That’s flat out misinformation. T’challa is no where near that…
Perfect? Even with recent history, T’challa isn’t shown as perfect.
Like Black Panther #19: World Tour, where Doctor Doom chocked T’challa out and had him by the neck…and Storm saved him. You mean perfect like Black Panther: Back To Africa (#35-38) where T’challa was getting his ass kicked by E. Killmonger and was saved by Monica R…Perfect like having the Shadow king take over his mind in Worlds Apart #1-4 and once again was saved by Storm? You mean perfect as in getting chocked out by Sabertooth in Wolverine, and was even saved by Logan?
These all happened recently. Recent history. There is nothing perfect about these things.
He wasn’t prefect in the classic Avengers Red Zone by G. Johns, but he was a compelling hero. He wasn’t perfect in the four-issue miniseries Black Panther, appeared in 1988, written by Peter B. Gillis and penciled by Denys Cowan. I mean come on really…You believe that T’challa is perfect?
I have not even touched stories from Christopher J. Priest's or Don McGregor (Jungle Action #6-24) no way you can consider him perfect there.…or his tenure with Roy Thomas; standing in the background with the Avengers during the 70’s ,80’s and early 90’s and the absolute rape of the character, or how he hardly appeared at all in the eighties…him getting beat down by kids in Don McGregor Jungle Action...but he is perfect?
Lets listen to someone who has a clue about the characterization of T’challa.
The guy who showed up in FANTASTIC FOUR #52 was definitely _not_ Tarzan. He wasn't clueless or uneducated. He used a _lot_ more gadgets than I do in the current series. He was duplicitous, mysterious, dangerous, ruthless, humorous, and violent. I'm not sure which guy my critics are talking about, but I tend to think the Panther I'm writing is more in line with Stan and Jack's vision that Doormat Man (TM) who has traditionally been the colorless, humorless, often clueless guy standing in the back row of the Avengers class picture, or showing up for the odd guest-shot to fight *yawn* Klaw again, the guy who got beat up and dragged more often than I can mention. If THAT is the guy my critics are longing for, I have to wonder why
Again…
What was even odder, for me, was the uproar of fans outraged by our evolution of the character into an extremely capable and not always clearly heroic figure, a man of uncertainty and mystery who used all of the vast resources at his disposal to accomplish his goals. Cries of heresy went forth from readers who hadn't ever read our book and, more to the point, who likely didn't support BLACK PANTHER in any of the several incarnations of ongoing adventures Marvel has attempted. Expletive-laden rants came in from people who know nothing about Panther, never really bought Panther on any regular basis, and who, frankly, think Panther is lame but who have bought into the severely errant illogic of the day — the de-evolution of a very clever and very unique character created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. Again and again I was asked, "How dare you change Panther!", to which I replied, "I didn't change Panther— other writers over the years changed Panther, losing sight of FF #52. *I* changed him back."
----PriestReally… Perfect?
Yet some how, T’challa being “perfect” has managed to influence and possibly ruined what could have been one of the most epic Black Panther stories ever. Perfect is the position of people who *don’t* even like the character. Haters; who are not supporting the book, NEVER HAVE, and *NEVER* will.
T’challa is no different from Bruce Wayne. Here is what Wizard said about Batman in their 200 platinum anniversary issue, where Batman was ranked #2 behind Wolverine.
[…] And if anyone crosses this all-too-human Dark Knight Detective-
Whether it be Superman, Joker, even Darkseid- he will find a way to beat them. That’s why he’s emerged as a pop-culture demigod-
Hmmm…no wonder why Secret Invasion: See Wakanda and Die by Jason Aaron is consider on of the best recent Panther stories of all time. It’s compelling. We see T’challa in complete bad ass mode. King Batman…if you will…and what did you get. Joe Q saying it was the best Secret Invasion story, critically rave reviews, excitement about the character, New York best sellers list for trade paper back…and what does marvel do. Mess it all up…
Is T’challa prefect?…or can he be compelling like other *heroes*? Why is there a need to destroy him to prove he is not prefect…when you have other examples other heroes that you can really call prefect based off of what happened in the actual stories, not the opinions of people who are not even fans. Folks who don’t even have sake in the character at all….we have read these sort of stories for a very long TIME. It the same reason folks started dropping Priest run…and why we saw a drop during “Back to Africa” arc…and why they are walking away now.
Can we please for once explore his flaws without him getting his ass kicked totally…like he did for nearly 30 years? We are sick of Doormat Man (TM).
It’s disturbing that this is a talking point. Proving that T’challa is not perfect, when it pretty clear that he has never been shown to be perfect, he has always been shown to have flaws…he has always been the Byronic hero…and there is no need to have him embarrassed and ran circles around at the expense of another character…to *prove something that is not true…as the This is why I understand the backlash; I mean we have not seen T’challa in action since Secret Invasion: See Wakanda and Die (#39-41) Jason Aaron ---August of 08.
All we have see is the character being taken through hell…no wonder the sales are falling. No wonder that fans of Black Panther are *not* happy
T’challa has been out of action for almost two years…doing nothing. Getting his ass kicked by Doom again…his Dora’s murdered, his uncle murdered, his nation taken over…his wife disrespected and a gun pointed at her…and his mother for that matter…and he is doing nothing but being the general and talking.
That is not com.pel.ling.
com.pel.ling. adj 1. arousing or denoting strong interest, esp admiring interest
There is nothing at all compelling with what T’challa is currently doing. In fact this hurts the character. It does not prove he is not prefect, but nurtures him like a stray cat. Marvel said this was the “big year for T’challa and the Black Panther cast”…and I still have hope…but we have not seen anything yet.
The fact that fan boy hater talking points are having any sort of influence on the creative process of this character is sad and disturbing.
Here you can see a list of the arcs that were voted the best Black Panther stories on CBR.
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2010/05/07/the-greatest-black-panther-stories-ever-told/1. Black Panther Vol. 3 #1-5 "The Client"
2. Fantastic Four #52-53 " Introducing the Sensational Black Panther"
3. Jungle Action #6-18 "Panther's Rage"
4. Black Panther Vol. 3 #26-29 "Sturm und Drang"
5. Black Panther Vol. 3 #6-12 "Enemy of the State"
6. Black Panther Vol. 4 #39-41 "See Wakanda and Die"
7. Black Panther Vol. 3 #41-45 "Enemy of the State II"
8. Black Panther Vol. 4 #1-6 "Who is the Black Panther?"
9. Black Panther Vol. 3 #16-20 "Killmonger's Rage"
10. Jungle Action #19-22, 24 and Marvel Premiere #51-53 "Black Panther vs. The Klan"
The closest story to perfect…out of these stories are #6 and you have to take the entire run into consideration…he lost to Doom and Killmonger during volume 4 …and was saved by others…and how in Who is the Black Panther, Klaw shot him through the chest/shoulder…
He has been owned by the Shadow King, just before this volume (# 5) started out with him getting *owned* by Doom…and all we are going to get is A Pyrrhic victory.
This is the uncut truth of why fans of Black Panther are not digging Doomwar. That and a force push that is greater then yoda of Shuri as the Black Panther. It really makes zero sense that she is more upset and has more at stake her then a person who has/was
*Nearly murdered at the hands of Doom.
*His two body guards murdered at the hands of Doom.
*Lost his ruler ship of Wakanda at the hands of Doom.
*Lost his uncle and advisors because of Doom (Zuri and W’kabi included).
*His wife being held for execution, and also a gun held to her head.
*His mother being executed and also had a gun held to her head.
*Bast siding with Doom.
*Taking over his country after almost *killing him*.
* Infecting his wife with nano machines.
And we are suppose to believe that Shuri is more offended then T’challa? That Shuri is supposed to be more upset...while T’challa stands around like a pussy---cat…with his head up his you know what.
Nah…that is not compelling. It has nothing to do with him being perfect, or perfect stories…because that is not true. I have a huge Black Panther collection…that is the pride of all the comics I collect...screw his status by comic fan boys…I try to get every appearance there is of the dude…and T’challa as pointed out has NEVER been perfect…there have not been *many stories* that show him as perfect…no more then any other hero like Captain America or Thor who are both allowed to be heroic without question. The double standard has to stop.
It seems that Jason Aaron got it…and that’s why his recent run during SI is so highly regarded. T’challa was shown as a complete bad ass, and compelling at that…
Its not even that Doom is winning; or about who is smarter…it’s about the way its being done. I have zero issue with Doom winning…or T’challa being pushed to the limit LIKE WE HAVE SEEN COUNTLESS TIMES BEFORE…*it has happened before you know*…but here T'challa is acting like a coward. Doing nothing...being a “General”...when it has been shown that he can do both...why hold him back?... If T’challa was out there taking names and kicking ass…Doomwar would be looked at in a whole different manner... even with Doom winning. That’s the issue here.
I find it hard to imagine...Thor not doing what he did during Siege…I find it hard to believe that this *perfect* “NORSE god” would stand around as a general during Siege and it would be ok with his fans…or Steve Rogers standing around being a general during Siege, or Civil War for that matter…just imagine that. It would never happen. Even with Bucky as Captain America…Steve was out there taking heads…being perfect taking out the U-foes and Wrecking Crew…go figure.
Meanwhile, T’challa is being a General.
Please stop listing to haters Marvel. They are not even buying the book…and if you are trying to please them. Then I guess you are doing a great job.
Sorry for being really Blunt...but this is how I see it.