Author Topic: Teacher Fired For Having Premarital Sex, Sues Southland Christian School  (Read 9306 times)

Offline Kristopher

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She was fired in Florida, which, like most States in America, is an "At Will" State. In the absence of employment contracts (such as collective bargaining agreements) that indicate otherwise, employers generally may fire employees for any reasons, no reasons and even unfair reasons. Happens everyday, sorry. Y'all don't like it, call your Senator/Congressperson and change the laws.

Offline Vic Vega

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She was fired in Florida, which, like most States in America, is an "At Will" State. In the absence of employment contracts (such as collective bargaining agreements) that indicate otherwise, employers generally may fire employees for any reasons, no reasons and even unfair reasons. Happens everyday, sorry. Y'all don't like it, call your Senator/Congressperson and change the laws.

But not discriminatory reasons.

This smacks of an employer trying to get out of having to pay an employee while on maternity leave.

The religion thing is an excuse, and a bad one too-does the school grill all thier pregnant employees about conception? What if she had refused to answer?


Offline Kristopher

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She was fired in Florida, which, like most States in America, is an "At Will" State. In the absence of employment contracts (such as collective bargaining agreements) that indicate otherwise, employers generally may fire employees for any reasons, no reasons and even unfair reasons. Happens everyday, sorry. Y'all don't like it, call your Senator/Congressperson and change the laws.

But not discriminatory reasons.

This smacks of an employer trying to get out of having to pay an employee while on maternity leave.

The religion thing is an excuse, and a bad one too-does the school grill all thier pregnant employees about conception? What if she had refused to answer?


Good question. My wife asked the same thing, I guess she'd have a stronger case?

Please, explain the "discrimination" part to me. "Discrimination" against who? What? Pregnant women? She's not the first they've had at that school, I doubt if she'll be the last. It's a little harder to prove.

Oh, and yeah, she SHOULD have refused to answer....if she were smart. The principal SHOULD have just fired her, with no explanation, he didn't have to give a reason. So why did he? Then, this would be non-news worthy, just like hundreds of every other firings in America every week. Something else is going on with this.

Offline Kristopher

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By the way isn't sex part of a person private life?

Yup! So she should have just keep her mouth shut.
What me and my Mrs. do in private is not my employer's(or anybody's) business, but once I(or she) shoot my mouth off...How private is it, then?

Offline Kristopher

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No, they should be proud, stand tall and not let a society full of people with loose morals and low standards brow beat them into submission. That's what tax funded PUBLIC SCHOOLS are for. Maybe she can go work in West Baltimore or someplace like that.
Excuse Me? what is with this Jab at West baltimore? What is that about?


Oh my bad (not), did you take that personally? If so why? Although, I should have just left out the "west" part, but West Bmore is where I'm from, so that's what I know most.. WORST school system in the State, an absolute embarrassment, with the exception of a few schools like Poly/Western. I doubt they care what kind of teachers they get, any live body will do.
That's what the "jab" is about.

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Oh my bad (not), did you take that personally? If so why? Although, I should have just left out the "west" part, but West Bmore is where I'm from, so that's what I know most.. WORST school system in the State, an absolute embarrassment, with the exception of a few schools like Poly/Western. I doubt they care what kind of teachers they get, any live body will do.
That's what the "jab" is about.
nah not really i was just trying to understand the reasoning behind the comment
With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.

Offline Redjack

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She was fired in Florida, which, like most States in America, is an "At Will" State. In the absence of employment contracts (such as collective bargaining agreements) that indicate otherwise, employers generally may fire employees for any reasons, no reasons and even unfair reasons. Happens everyday, sorry. Y'all don't like it, call your Senator/Congressperson and change the laws.

But not discriminatory reasons.

This smacks of an employer trying to get out of having to pay an employee while on maternity leave.

The religion thing is an excuse, and a bad one too-does the school grill all thier pregnant employees about conception? What if she had refused to answer?


Good question. My wife asked the same thing, I guess she'd have a stronger case?

Please, explain the "discrimination" part to me. "Discrimination" against who? What? Pregnant women? She's not the first they've had at that school, I doubt if she'll be the last. It's a little harder to prove.

Oh, and yeah, she SHOULD have refused to answer....if she were smart. The principal SHOULD have just fired her, with no explanation, he didn't have to give a reason. So why did he? Then, this would be non-news worthy, just like hundreds of every other firings in America every week. Something else is going on with this.


The principal couldn't fire her without knowing she was having sex prior to the marriage. If she had lied and then it was found out she had conceived prior to her wedding night, that might be a morals breach. She didn't lie, believing, I think rightly, that she was safe.

But, more to the point, I presume you are married and/or have kids. I also presume, at some point before meeting your wife you had sex with someone else. Should I be allowed to fire you based upon that fact? Even though you are currently playing by "God's Rules?"  

The answer is, "No."

If it's determined that you were fired for religious reasons, ethnic reasons, political reasons or gender reasons, your employer is NOT allowed to dismiss you. They are not allowed to fire you for "any" reason;that's a myth.

And I'm interested in what else you think is going on there.

I know it sounds trite but, if you ask yourself "What would Jesus have done?" you will not come up with that teacher getting fired.
Soon you will come to know. When the bullet hits the bone.

Offline Kristopher

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The principal couldn't fire her without knowing she was having sex prior to the marriage.
Yes, he could/can.
But, more to the point, I presume you are married and/or have kids. I also presume, at some point before meeting your wife you had sex with someone else. Should I be allowed to fire you based upon that fact? Even though you are currently playing by "God's Rules?"  

The answer is, "No."
You're right.......unless I signed some type of moral clause, but it's irrelevant, the whole "At Will" thing, remember?

They are not allowed to fire you for "any" reason;that's a myth.
No, sorry, it's not, but since I'm a Federal employee(who is NOT At Will)just to be sure, tomorrow I'll head over to the Agency's EEOC officer and confirm. How's that? I can personally think of 7 people in Maryland who were fired At Will. They had no legal recourse. That's the way it goes. Maybe you just never realized such a thing existed, I'm sure quite a few folks here didn't.
And I'm interested in what else you think is going on there.
She's black, her husband is white, so maybe it's racial, maybe not.

Offline Redjack

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You can be fired for "nothing," that's true. But you can't be fired for any reason that violates your civil rights. Since they cited a reason for firing her, rather than no reason, they have opened themselves up to be sued.
Soon you will come to know. When the bullet hits the bone.

Offline Kristopher

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Oh my bad (not), did you take that personally? If so why? Although, I should have just left out the "west" part, but West Bmore is where I'm from, so that's what I know most.. WORST school system in the State, an absolute embarrassment, with the exception of a few schools like Poly/Western. I doubt they care what kind of teachers they get, any live body will do.
That's what the "jab" is about.
nah not really i was just trying to understand the reasoning behind the comment

Kool!
BTW AFRAM(at least that's what it was called back in the day) is this weekend, should be good.

Offline Kristopher

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You can be fired for "nothing," that's true. But you can't be fired for any reason that violates your civil rights. Since they cited a reason for firing her, rather than no reason, they have opened themselves up to be sued.

sigh
We'll see.

Offline Redjack

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why wait?

Exceptions to At-Will Employment Terminations
The following are some exceptions to when firing an at-will employee amounts to wrongful termination:

Discrimination - The employer cannot terminate employment because the employee is a certain race, nationality, religion, sex, age, or in some states, sexual orientation.
Retaliation - An employer cannot fire an employee because the employee filed a claim of discrimination or is participating in an investigation for discrimination. This "retaliation" is forbidden under civil rights law.
Contractual Employees - Generally, an employee with an employment contract can only be terminated for the reasons stated in the contract. Employment contracts for specified periods of time or permitting terminations only for specific reasons are rare today.
Public Policy- an employer is not permitted to fire an employee because the employee violates company public policy.
Illegal Acts -An employer is not permitted to fire an employee because the employee refuses to commit an act that is illegal.
Family or Medical Leave - Federal law permits most employees to take a leave of absence for specific family or medical problems. An employer is not permitted to fire an employee who takes family or medical leave for a reason outlined in the Family and Medical Leave Act.
Not Following Own Termination Procedures - Often, the employee handbook or company policy outlines a procedure that must be followed before an employee is terminated. If the employer fires an employee without following this procedure, the employee may have a claim for wrongful termination.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 08:19:11 pm by Redjack »
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Offline Kristopher

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Florida Courts apply the employment-at-will doctrine in most discharge actions, De Marco v. Publix Supermarkets, Inc., 360 So.2d 134 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1978), affirmed 384 So.2d 1253 (Fla. 1980). Likewise, there is no obligation on the part of an employer to be fair or exercise good faith towards employees, Muller v. Stromberg Carlson Corp., 427 So.2d 266 (Fla. 2nd DCA 1983). However, there are certain exceptions which prohibit discharge or retaliation.

Discrimination Florida Human Relations Act (FHRA) of 1977 as amended: Discrimination in employment based on race, color, religion, sex, (including same-sex harassment) national origin, age, disability, or marital status is prohibited. 760.10 Fla. Stat. For same-sex harassment, See Oncale v. Sundowner Offshore Services, 118 . Ct. 998 (1998).
NOTE: The FHRA also prohibits discrimination against employees because they opposed, made a charge or assisted in the investigation of discrimination. See 760.37 Fla. Stat.

I wonder which of these she's basing her discrimination claim on?


The three major exceptions to the employment-at-will doctrine, as developed in common law, including recognition of these exceptions in the 50 States. The exceptions principally address terminations that, although they technically comply with the employment-at-will requirements, do not seem just. The most widespread exception prevents terminations for reasons that violate a State's public policy. Another widely recognized exception prohibits terminations after an implied contract for employment has been established; such a contract can be created through employer representations of continued employment, in the form of either oral assurances or expectations created by employer handbooks, policies, or other written assurances. Finally, a minority of States has read an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing into the employment relationship. The good-faith covenant has been interpreted in different ways, from meaning that terminations must be for cause to meaning that terminations cannot be made in bad faith or with malice intended. Only six western States--Alaska, California, Idaho, Nevada, Utah, and Wyoming--recognize all three of the major exceptions.(4) Three southern States--Florida, Georgia, and Louisiana--and Rhode Island do not recognize any of the three major exceptions to employment at will.

If one investigates even further, they'll find that the South is a whole different animal, then say...California, in regards to At Will, exceptions, etc. A convo with an experienced Labor Attorney or EEOC officer is far more revealing than a laypersons internet search

Again,
We'll see.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 05:50:26 am by Kristopher »

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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They should be ashamed of themselves.
No, they should be proud, stand tall and not let a society full of people with loose morals and low standards brow beat them into submission.

Aside from the legalities involved, I'm more interested in how folks view the morality. The above is a rather sharp contrast. I admit up front that my view is more aligned with Redjack's but I'd like to understand the opposing moral view. Kristopher, you're saying you view sex with one's fiancee as a serious moral transgression, deserving of being fired, right?
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline Vic Vega

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I've only been handling/investigating these sorts of claims on and off for nearly a decade now so we are not ALL amateurs here.

There is a very real question about would this even be happening to her if she wasn't in a mixed marriage. And as far as, businesses attempting to bounce thier pregnant employees, I wouldn't put it past them.

And come to think of it, if I was going to try to terminate women who get pregnant so I could jerk them out of FMLA, the morals angle is one way to do it.   You can fire your single moms and get rid of the married ones that dont have thier babies at the proper time while they are at it.    

In an environment like that who's gonna ask for maternity leave?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 07:44:14 am by Vic Vega »