From White to Black: The Changing Faces of Superheroes.

[sinjection1]

Is there a developing penchant for making Caucasian (White) characters Afrakan (Black)?

Just to name a few, Eddie Murphy had two franchises with The Nutty Professor and Dr. Doolittle. Denzel Washington did it as The Manchurian Candidate and Will Smith did it with the commercially unsuccessful Wild Wild West. Keeping the trend alive in the Smith family is son Jaden, with his new release The Karate Kid. This of course is not a new occurrence. There was Blackula and The Wiz in the '70s and some others that preceded them.

In the superhero genre Daredevil has Michael Clarke Duncan playing the Kingpin. Samuel L. Jackson plays Nick Fury in Ironman (although he is first converted in the Ultimates comic book) and most recently Idris Elba has been cast to play Heimdall in the upcoming Thor movie.

In comics  such conversions have occurred with Firestorm and the Spectre. Rumor has it that a new Aqualad will be converted. I acknowledge certain adaptations are organic like those of Green Lantern John Stewart or War Machine James Rhodes.

In a strange twist Black Panther has felt the inverse of this phenomenon. The waters were tested in Ultimates 3 and prior to that with Kasper Cole during Priest's run. I am also aware that white characters are being changed to other ethnicities and genders as evident with the Atom and Doctor Light but my intent is stated in the title of this post.

Has this age of heroes  become so destitute that it is now necessary to commandeer  existing identities rather than create new ones. Has ethnicity and cultural integrity been replaced with a generic composite of Caucasian cultures to be accepted as universal?

What Vic has said about some comicbook fanboys becoming the professionals who eventually produce the type of books they and those whose "tastes" mirror their own, might enjoy most comes to mind as I try to make sense of what I'm about to post. It's an observation.

Sean Cassidy - the mutant known as Banshee - was a white male. In Irish/Scottish culture however, the banshee is a female spirit whose wails foretell doom for some unfortunate. The creators of Marvel's Banshee likely assumed that their core LCB-RD audience would be more interested in the exploits of a male character rather than a female character. As Kip posted elsewhere, Marvel editors/creators will overlook certain detail matters - the fact there are no tigers in Africa for instance - in the interest of creating characters and stories the LCB-RD might best relate to and enjoy. So when Cassidy's daughter shows up with mutant powers like her father, this female character who should have been the Banshee from the get-go, receives the codename Siryn or siren. The siren isn't a character of Irish/Scottish folklore, but of Greek origin. You see how these LCB-RD fanboys-cum-comicbook creators play fast and loose with cultural concepts, usually to the benefit of some white character they're developing or some storyline featuring that white character they've developed.

This might be a case of a character who should have been black, being developed as a white character instead. Somewhere, sometime back, I came across a tidbit of info regarding the mutant character - the "disco queen" Dazzler. It seems that the character's creator originally intended to base this character on actress/model Grace Jones but opted for the white girl "eye candy" character instead. Not surprising really. The history of Jazz music is being rewritten slowly but surely, possibly to accomodate the thinking of the genre's white fanbase. America's Original Artform is becoming less a creation of Black American cultural musical genius and more the blending of black and white American contributions...no matter what Wynton Marsalis, Stanley Crouch, and Ken Burns have to say about it. From Elvis, to Benny Goodman, Diana Krall, eminem, etc... the larger American demographic will push their own to the forefront of music genres largely recognized to be black American in origin. Dazzler might have benefitted from this phenomenon. However, the comicbook medium remains primarily of white males, for white males, by white males. Black characters - when created - aren't pushed forward, they are often held back.

[4sake]

4Sake, I was wondering where you'd gotten off to  

Thanks for the visual of Beta Ray Bill's human alter-ego. I'd learned from internet sources sometime ago that he'd chosen the appearance of a black man but your's is the first visual evidence of this I've seen. Not surprisingly, I have read at least one comment criticizing BRB's need/use of a human alter-ego as ludicrous.

Interesting how a "Black" Heimdall and a "White" Sif is going to work out. Heimdall and Sif are siblings, brother and sister. This will most likely not be the case in the Thor movie.

Maybe they'll be half or step siblings lol    

And now, another question for you.

Long, long....loooooooooooooong ago....(nigh on 40 years ago, I'd guess), there was an issue of Thor in which Odin sought out 3 mortals who through his "godly machinations", transformed into Asgardian god-type beings. The first mortal was a white male; the second mortal was an Asian female, and the third mortal was a Black male. Talk about changing faces of superheroes from white to black, in this case Scandanavian mythology-turned comicbook mythos became home for two non-Scandanavian, two non-white immortals.

The question is this. Do you have a scan of those 3 characters?

I wish I did cause that sounds interesting, but Ive never regularly read Thor (I got like 4 Thor comics in total lol.. Thor 600 & Thor SI)... But that something I'd like to see.. So I'll look around the net & see if I find Odin transforming the ppl..

The book I have featuring that story has virtually disintegrated. The cover is long gone, what's left is 5 or 6 pages...at least that was the page count the last time I saw the remnant which was a long, long time ago. I do remember that Odin used a being known as Ego Prime to bring about the transformation of the chosen mortals who were contacted by Heimdall. The brother's name was Jason Kimball. He was an artist. The only other thing I can remember about the three transformed humans is that Kimball's garb was green; the Asian lady's garb was red and the white fellow's garb was blue. I'm sure that if anyone can find their image on the net 4Sake, it will be you.

Now one more thing. I have seen the spirited debate taking place at "the other place". Our brothers there are doing a splendid job batting about the loopy LCB-RD types intent on derailing the topic with all that mutant-racial minority nonsense. If it hasn't been mentioned yet, I hope one of the brothers gets around to doing so soon. What needs to be pointed out there is that mutants are not a race. Mutants are a different species. Cyclops is a homo-superior. Charlie Daniels is a homosapien. The two men are of different species but they're both caucasians. Also, not every mutant in the MU was born that way. There was a sentinel of all things, who because he flew too close to the sun underwent a change which changed him into a human AND a mutant.

Genii/Jason Kimball




http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/geniiyoung.htm

http://marvel.wikia.com/Jason_Kimball_%28Earth-616%29

http://marvel.wikia.com/Young_Gods_%28Earth-616%29

http://www.comicvine.com/genii/29-30143/

[4sake]

Is there a developing penchant for making Caucasian (White) characters Afrakan (Black)?

Just to name a few, Eddie Murphy had two franchises with The Nutty Professor and Dr. Doolittle. Denzel Washington did it as The Manchurian Candidate and Will Smith did it with the commercially unsuccessful Wild Wild West. Keeping the trend alive in the Smith family is son Jaden, with his new release The Karate Kid. This of course is not a new occurrence. There was Blackula and The Wiz in the '70s and some others that preceded them.

In the superhero genre Daredevil has Michael Clarke Duncan playing the Kingpin. Samuel L. Jackson plays Nick Fury in Ironman (although he is first converted in the Ultimates comic book) and most recently Idris Elba has been cast to play Heimdall in the upcoming Thor movie.

In comics  such conversions have occurred with Firestorm and the Spectre. Rumor has it that a new Aqualad will be converted. I acknowledge certain adaptations are organic like those of Green Lantern John Stewart or War Machine James Rhodes.

In a strange twist Black Panther has felt the inverse of this phenomenon. The waters were tested in Ultimates 3 and prior to that with Kasper Cole during Priest's run. I am also aware that white characters are being changed to other ethnicities and genders as evident with the Atom and Doctor Light but my intent is stated in the title of this post.

Has this age of heroes  become so destitute that it is now necessary to commandeer  existing identities rather than create new ones. Has ethnicity and cultural integrity been replaced with a generic composite of Caucasian cultures to be accepted as universal?

What Vic has said about some comicbook fanboys becoming the professionals who eventually produce the type of books they and those whose "tastes" mirror their own, might enjoy most comes to mind as I try to make sense of what I'm about to post. It's an observation.

Sean Cassidy - the mutant known as Banshee - was a white male. In Irish/Scottish culture however, the banshee is a female spirit whose wails foretell doom for some unfortunate. The creators of Marvel's Banshee likely assumed that their core LCB-RD audience would be more interested in the exploits of a male character rather than a female character. As Kip posted elsewhere, Marvel editors/creators will overlook certain detail matters - the fact there are no tigers in Africa for instance - in the interest of creating characters and stories the LCB-RD might best relate to and enjoy. So when Cassidy's daughter shows up with mutant powers like her father, this female character who should have been the Banshee from the get-go, receives the codename Siryn or siren. The siren isn't a character of Irish/Scottish folklore, but of Greek origin. You see how these LCB-RD fanboys-cum-comicbook creators play fast and loose with cultural concepts, usually to the benefit of some white character they're developing or some storyline featuring that white character they've developed.

This might be a case of a character who should have been black, being developed as a white character instead. Somewhere, sometime back, I came across a tidbit of info regarding the mutant character - the "disco queen" Dazzler. It seems that the character's creator originally intended to base this character on actress/model Grace Jones but opted for the white girl "eye candy" character instead. Not surprising really. The history of Jazz music is being rewritten slowly but surely, possibly to accomodate the thinking of the genre's white fanbase. America's Original Artform is becoming less a creation of Black American cultural musical genius and more the blending of black and white American contributions...no matter what Wynton Marsalis, Stanley Crouch, and Ken Burns have to say about it. From Elvis, to Benny Goodman, Diana Krall, eminem, etc... the larger American demographic will push their own to the forefront of music genres largely recognized to be black American in origin. Dazzler might have benefitted from this phenomenon. However, the comicbook medium remains primarily of white males, for white males, by white males. Black characters - when created - aren't pushed forward, they are often held back.

Theresa Cassidy  Sean Cassidy's daughter now goes by Banshee (as of X-Factor# 200)



http://www.comicvine.com/banshee/29-3181/

Think the Dazzler story goes like this Filmworks, Casablanca Records & Marvel got together to make the character.. Marvel wanted her to be black/look like a young Grace Jones/Grace Jones.. So John Romita, Jr. drew her like that then but representatives from Filmworks wanting to promote model and actress Bo Derek  – insisted on design changes to reflect Derek's features.. Casablanca continued to request conceptual changes to the character's appearance and personality, leading to several cancellations of the project. So that how is when from Black to White.. So I can't really blame marvel all the way for that one because Filmworks & Casablanca Records were supposed to produce a tie-in motion picture & etc before they both backout of the deal..

Here the only pic I could find :

http://media.photobucket.com/image/Black%20Dazzler/Bedlam_2008/BlackDazzler.jpg

[sinjection1]

Brilliant, 4Sake. Brilliant! I had every confidence in you. You didn't let us down.

Genii/Jason Kimball




http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/geniiyoung.htm

http://marvel.wikia.com/Jason_Kimball_%28Earth-616%29

http://marvel.wikia.com/Young_Gods_%28Earth-616%29

http://www.comicvine.com/genii/29-30143/

The character has a cool name, a cool appearance, and a very interesting powerset. Where is he now? Moldering. Here is a black character having strong potential but like Laura Dean and her lovely twin sister Goblyn Dean, Genii sits on a shelf and will likely have his name and powerset given to some future white (certainly non-black) mutant.

Theresa Cassidy  Sean Cassidy's daughter now goes by Banshee (as of X-Factor# 200)



http://www.comicvine.com/banshee/29-3181/

It's about time. The name Banshee is more befitting a female character than a male character. There's even a women's semi-pro football team with the name Oakland Banshees.

I don't read anything X-related what with their editors and writers humiliating, depowering and/or killing off black mutants like it's cool. The X-characters are boring. The X-stories are boring and stupid, relying on sex, sex and more sex to entice the franchise's largely strange fandom to "stay tuned". This is why I wasn't aware of Siryn's name change.

 The LCB-RD X-fan probably has no problem with Theresa taking up the Banshee mantle, the fact that Madrox nailed her AND M, the character who USED TO BE black and who remained sexually untainted because the x-crement editors and writers killed off Synch before he could sleep with her, is probable compensation for the loss of a white male character. Cynical?......nawwwwwww.

Think the Dazzler story goes like this Filmworks, Casablanca Records & Marvel got together to make the character.. Marvel wanted her to be black/look like a young Grace Jones/Grace Jones.. So John Romita, Jr. drew her like that then but representatives from Filmworks wanting to promote model and actress Bo Derek  – insisted on design changes to reflect Derek's features.. Casablanca continued to request conceptual changes to the character's appearance and personality, leading to several cancellations of the project. So that how is when from Black to White.. So I can't really blame marvel all the way for that one because Filmworks & Casablanca Records were supposed to produce a tie-in motion picture & etc before they both backout of the deal..

Here the only pic I could find :

http://media.photobucket.com/image/Black%20Dazzler/Bedlam_2008/BlackDazzler.jpg

Ahh yes, Bo Derek; the white woman who "put cornrows on the map", nevermind the fact that Black females had been styling their hair that way for centuries. Dazzler, the "disco queen" mutant---disco has its origin in the music of black American culture but because of its popularity with white females and particularly gays, disco became most closely related to those groups over time. To the best of my knowledge, I've never purchased a Casablanca product and I"ve never been happier about that than I am now. Thanks for the very interesting "Black Dazzler" image. 4Sake never fails.

[4sake]

Brilliant, 4Sake. Brilliant! I had every confidence in you. You didn't let us down.

Genii/Jason Kimball




http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/geniiyoung.htm

http://marvel.wikia.com/Jason_Kimball_%28Earth-616%29

http://marvel.wikia.com/Young_Gods_%28Earth-616%29

http://www.comicvine.com/genii/29-30143/

The character has a cool name, a cool appearance, and a very interesting powerset. Where is he now? Moldering. Here is a black character having strong potential but like Laura Dean and her lovely twin sister Goblyn Dean, Genii sits on a shelf and will likely have his name and powerset given to some future white (certainly non-black) mutant.

Theresa Cassidy  Sean Cassidy's daughter now goes by Banshee (as of X-Factor# 200)



http://www.comicvine.com/banshee/29-3181/

It's about time. The name Banshee is more befitting a female character than a male character. There's even a women's semi-pro football team with the name Oakland Banshees.

I don't read anything X-related what with their editors and writers humiliating, depowering and/or killing off black mutants like it's cool. The X-characters are boring. The X-stories are boring and stupid, relying on sex, sex and more sex to entice the franchise's largely strange fandom to "stay tuned". This is why I wasn't aware of Siryn's name change.

 The LCB-RD X-fan probably has no problem with Theresa taking up the Banshee mantle, the fact that Madrox nailed her AND M, the character who USED TO BE black and who remained sexually untainted because the x-crement editors and writers killed off Synch before he could sleep with her, is probable compensation for the loss of a white male character. Cynical?......nawwwwwww.

Think the Dazzler story goes like this Filmworks, Casablanca Records & Marvel got together to make the character.. Marvel wanted her to be black/look like a young Grace Jones/Grace Jones.. So John Romita, Jr. drew her like that then but representatives from Filmworks wanting to promote model and actress Bo Derek  – insisted on design changes to reflect Derek's features.. Casablanca continued to request conceptual changes to the character's appearance and personality, leading to several cancellations of the project. So that how is when from Black to White.. So I can't really blame marvel all the way for that one because Filmworks & Casablanca Records were supposed to produce a tie-in motion picture & etc before they both backout of the deal..

Here the only pic I could find :

http://media.photobucket.com/image/Black%20Dazzler/Bedlam_2008/BlackDazzler.jpg

Ahh yes, Bo Derek; the white woman who "put cornrows on the map", nevermind the fact that Black females had been styling their hair that way for centuries. Dazzler, the "disco queen" mutant---disco has its origin in the music of black American culture but because of its popularity with white females and particularly gays, disco became most closely related to those groups over time. To the best of my knowledge, I've never purchased a Casablanca product and I"ve never been happier about that than I am now. Thanks for the very interesting "Black Dazzler" image. 4Sake never fails.

No prob.. I'm glad I could help.. Pad & his current art team have done alot improve M & Darwin imo.. They both look like character with some Afrikan blood/dna again..

Darwin is pissed :





Also he brown has Ears & doesn't look like alien .. EARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 



Also he's (PAD) has show Darwin has a crush on M/like M. Also that M (maybe has some feeling for Darwin).. I'm hoping they finally start dating in nxt story arc or 1 after that..


Before this image is from before the current/new art team...




They also brought back Cartier St.Croix (M dad) & kept him black..

[sinjection1]

Well, I have to confess...these scans show some degree of sensible developments in an X-franchise comic.

No prob.. I'm glad I could help.. Pad & his current art team have done alot improve M & Darwin imo.. They both look like character with some Afrikan blood/dna again..

Darwin is pissed :





Also he brown has Ears & doesn't look like alien .. EARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 



Also he's (PAD) has show Darwin has a crush on M/like M. Also that M (maybe has some feeling for Darwin).. I'm hoping they finally start dating in nxt story arc or 1 after that..


Before this image is from before the current/new art team...




They also brought back Cartier St.Croix (M dad) & kept him black..

I should always preface most observations I post about anything X-franchise and for that matter, anything about the "mainstream MU" (so-called "A-List" characters and the stories featuring those characters) with the disclaimer that I have for a long time had very little-to-no interest in those characters nor for the books featuring those characters. I haven't purchased a Spider-Man comic in over 20 years or more and have no desire to do so. The character is tremendously boring IMalwayshumbleO and I haven't missed reading about his exploits in the least. The only Spider-Man movie I watched was the first in the trilogy. I had/have no interest in viewing the two sequels nor in any future sequel.

This same disinterest extends to the X-Men of course, and to all their comics and movies, to Thor and his upcoming movie, to Iron Man and his upcoming movie, to Capt. America -Rogers and Bucky - to the Avengers, to the FF comics and movies...in short, to nearly everything having to do with the so-called "backbone" of Marvel and DC comics. I'll spend my money for Dr. Voodoo, Storm and Black Panther - T'Challa or Shuri - Cloak and Dagger, basically any comicbook featuring a positive depiction of a black character which I'm sad to say, leaves out most books featuring Luke Cage these days. I'll spend my money and sit my butt in a theatre seat for the HANCOCK sequel. Conversely, I never saw the Hulk movies and have no desire to do so.

So with the foregoing established, it should be understood that most opinions I post concerning those characters and their stories is based upon info I glean from books already in my collection purchased before my epiphany of just how boring, how irrelevant, how completely removed from anything I could personally relate to, these "A-list" characters and their stories were and are. I also pick up on tidbits of info about those characters and their stories from the net and forums like this one.

Regarding Monet St. Croix, her appearance has always been consistent with that of an Algerian woman born of wealth and priviledge. True, her character is African but she is not sub-Saharan African which has become understood as the delineation separating Black Africans from North Africans or Arabs. Though it appears M's father is a black man, her character bears the physical features of Algerian women I've seen on the net. I no longer have any beef with those LCB-RD types who take issue with any suggestion that Monet St. Croix is a black character. Now, I have to wonder why Monet has twice now, been shown as the type of girl who is more than ready to "put out" when she's had a few too many. IIRC, that's how Monet wound up in the sack with Madrox in the first place. Angel Salvatore - another woman of color - was inebriated and underaged when she engaged in unprotected sex with a mutant creature who resembled a dead baby bird on a sidewalk, and was impregnated. What's up with THAT?

Darwin is looking much better. He actually looks like the son of a Puerto Rican father and a Black American mother now. Before, he looked as if he was the offspring of 2 kneaded erasers. I hope any feelings of physical attraction M might have for Darwin isn't a prelude to his being depowered or destroyed.

[phara]

Speaking of Black Characters becoming White, apparently the panther god is getting into the act or hadn't anyone noticed that the panther god is white now. I guess when he looked down the million pathways of the future he saw where things were headed and decided to get in on the act early. An entire nation of black people worshiping a white god (aka Jack Kirby). Who said marvel doesn't have a sense of humor.

[Ture]

Typical Eurocentric arrogance compounded by ignorance. The white color of the Panther spirit is rooted in such Afrakan spiritual sciences as Orisa funfun of the Ifa traditions of the Yoruba of Nigeria and the great white that enshrouds Ausar in the Shetaut Neter traditions of the Kamau of Ta Meri. In Afrakan tradition White is analogous to external composure and secretive undertakings (both of which are supremely feminine attributes which explains why Bast, the Panther spirit's true name, is female).

Whiteness expresses the coolness that typify covert power and action as well as establishes ritual purity, calmness and patience. The color white has nothing to do with Caucasians especially when referring to something Afrakans.

For all intents and purposes Afrakan people worshiping an Afrakan god. I guess Reg, John or somebody at Marvel knew a little something.

If you don't know say you don't know. After all you are at the right place for answers concerning any thing Black Panther.

[phara]

What a weak response! First what makes think I'm European. The Roma are descendants of Southern Asians not Europeans. Second, and this seems to have gone over your head, the reason why it was appropriate that the panther god finally showed his true color,white, is because the panther gods are WHITE. Gods create universes and the Marvel universe including the black panther, wakanda and our beloved king Victor Von Doom the First were created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. The panther god and Wakanda weren't created by Orisha funfun (what a name) or whoever else from whatever African tradition that nobody but you ever heard of but by two WHITE men. Like i said I'm glad somebody at Marvel gets it even if you folks don't. I'm going back to running with the big dogs at the FF fansites much more of a challenge. Peace.

[Vic Vega]

What a weak response! First what makes think I'm European. The Roma are descendants of Southern Asians not Europeans. Second, and this seems to have gone over your head, the reason why it was appropriate that the panther god finally showed his true color,white, is because the panther gods are WHITE. Gods create universes and the Marvel universe including the black panther, wakanda and our beloved king Victor Von Doom the First were created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. The panther god and Wakanda weren't created by Orisha funfun (what a name) or whoever else from whatever African tradition that nobody but you ever heard of but by two WHITE men. Like i said I'm glad somebody at Marvel gets it even if you folks don't. I'm going back to running with the big dogs at the FF fansites much more of a challenge. Peace.

Yawn.

Y' know, the trolls used to be more entertaining than this.

[Open palm]

Phara is a Roma? The guys DO know the Roma are the most discriminated people in Europe, right?

[Ture]

I did not think you were European. I used the term "Eurocentric" regarding your remarks. I previously stated without error that your arrogance is only compounded by your ignorance as demonstrated in your commentary  "Orisha funfun (what a name)" and  "from whatever African tradition that nobody but you ever heard of". Such blatant disrespect marks you as a true disciple of Doom. You were in error once more when you wrote "The panther god and Wakanda weren't created by Orisha funfun". I didn't say they were. I simply gave a plausible explanation as to why the Panther spirit appears white in color. Like your mentor you fail to grasp the obvious. 

What you assumed was over my head was beneath my commenting on. There are new gods in the pantheon of the Panther. What Stan and Jack created has evolved beyond their imaginings under the authorship of Priest and Reg. These "new gods" have given the necessary acculturation and ethnic values that only an Afrakan ("Black" if you will) could furnish to the Black Panther. Jack Kirby never rendered the Panther spirit, Priest and Reg however did. How appropriate that an Afrakan god be rendered by two Afrakans ("Blacks" if you will).

As you go back to running with the dogs, know that you could not keep up with the gods.

Hetep



 

[BLANKS!!!]

yeah, ignoring phara and the sack of $hit that he/she stuffed their mouth with, here is a African American character update. The original Shadowhawk from Image comics is back, alive and kicking.

[Mastrmynd]

Ture, i am a fan.
 
if i haven't welcomed u to the family already, WELCOME TO THE HEFfa Family bruh!!

[sinjection1]

I'd thought it best if we didn't dignify the pharasite in our midst with a response, let the maggot die ignored as it were.

As you go back to running with the dogs, know that you could not keep up with the gods.

However, a good ol' fashioned ASS-KICKING works as well. The fool had it coming. Ture, very well done Brother.