Author Topic: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle  (Read 10606 times)

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

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The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« on: August 17, 2010, 08:05:50 pm »
The Co-opting of the Black struggle is not a new phenomenon but I find myself even more disgusted at its reality every time it is re-used.

I watched The Ed Show and Larry King tonight and of course both programs had people comparing gay marriage to the struggles of Blacks in the Civil rights movement.

The fact that gay marriage involves the redefining of the most fundamental institution in human existence didn't come up as an issue for these pathetic sophists. A simple recognition of this fact would've prevented these gay marriage advocates from comparing anti-miscegentaion laws to prop 8. A Black man IS a man and a White Woman IS a woman, any union between the 2 would fit the definition of marriage since the covenant was created.

What I find particularly disturbing is when Black people themselves become a focal point in the co-opting of the struggle. Kamala Harris took this role on Larry King tonight. Her incessant claims that not only was Gay marriage a civil rights issue comprable to those affecting Blacks, but that it also was a constitutional issue.

If the injsutice involved in the denial of gay marraige were so self-evident; the need for connecting it to the Black civil rights struggle would be non-existant.

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2010, 05:53:18 am »
That is why at times I find that sh*t stupid. No "discrimation" is greater than the next.
For some magical reason gay discrimination doesnt equate:

The Irish community in the past
The Japanese Community during WW2
native american community in the past
the jewish community in the past
currently the arab,middle eastern community
Women
Individuals of the Muslim Faith
Even the pedophile/sex offenders


Why gay marriage is similar to the "black struggle" but not similar to the others? It is just as stupid comparing mutants to blacks in comics. If I'm not mistaken blacks could get married to each other even during the "good ole days". I must have missed the "gays only water fountain" or the fact that "gays couldn't vote".  Do I support them to get married? Yes go ahead it doesnt bother me at all. But what bothers me is the assinine comparison of blacks and gays for the simple notion that "they can't get married" I mean that is it? That is your argument? Are you sh*tting me?
With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.

Offline JLI Jesse

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Re: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2010, 06:46:26 am »
But what bothers me is the assinine comparison of blacks and gays for the simple notion that "they can't get married" I mean that is it? That is your argument? Are you sh*tting me?



I think comparison is that both have been discriminated against.  The black civil rights movement is the most famous struggle in American history so it only makes sense for them to use that for many of their arguments.  Aren't civil unions just an example of separate but equal, something that I'd think that supporters of the civil rights movement could understand?

Rather than being pissed at the "co-opting of the black struggle" I would think it makes more since to say "I've been discriminated against because of who I am; it's wrong and to see that happen to anyone else is a travesty."  Just like how racists are allowed to be disgusted with "lesser races and religions," they have to suck it up because discrimination of any kind should be abolished in this country.  You don't have to think gay marriage is appropriate or correct, but personal beliefs shouldn't be part of the equation.  The point should be that all people in a committed relationship who love each other should be afforded the same right, regardless of gender.

BTW - I am not going to speak on this because truthfully I am not educated on the case.  However a gay coworker of mine pointed me to this case, Loving v Virginia, a case where civil rights and marriage are very much an issue.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 06:58:42 am by JLI Jesse »

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2010, 08:36:46 am »
Loving v. Virgina is very much on topic here.

Either persons of age can enter into legal contracts (and that's all marriage is in the eyes of the law) with each other or they can't.
If others can and you cannot you are effectively a second class citizen.

There's no need to enter into the oppression Olympics to discern the good here.

If Black Folk find the Gay Civil Rights Struggles=Black Civil Rights Struggles concept so offensive they need to tell their church folk to stop dragging out that whole tired "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" mantra out too. 

Offline Kristopher

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Re: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2010, 10:00:51 am »
If Black Folk find the Gay Civil Rights Struggles=Black Civil Rights Struggles concept so offensive they need to tell their church folk to stop dragging out that whole tired "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" mantra out too.  

Somebody please pass this on to the living relatives of Emmett Till.

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2010, 10:05:08 am »
Loving v. Virgina is very much on topic here.

Either persons of age can enter into legal contracts (and that's all marriage is in the eyes of the law) with each other or they can't.
If others can and you cannot you are effectively a second class citizen.

There's no need to enter into the oppression Olympics to discern the good here.

If Black Folk find the Gay Civil Rights Struggles=Black Civil Rights Struggles concept so offensive they need to tell their church folk to stop dragging out that whole tired "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" mantra out too.  
It isn't offensive but it is silly. What makes the Gay Civil Right equate black civil rights and not women, arabs, pedos or anyone else that have civil rights issues is my point. So many have the blind mantra just flat out say "our rights are taken away like black people" Each discrimination that exist are different from each other and very unique from one another as well. Pedos have a problem to get a job or proper housing (in a way they "appear" to equate blacks but they dont) There is no equal discrimination nor one that is greater than the next.



With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2010, 10:43:37 am »
If Black Folk find the Gay Civil Rights Struggles=Black Civil Rights Struggles concept so offensive they need to tell their church folk to stop dragging out that whole tired "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" mantra out too.  

Somebody please pass this on to the living relatives of Emmett Till.

Ever heard of Brandon Teena?

We don't have the monopoly on being Hate Crime victims either.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 10:49:11 am by Vic Vega »

Offline JLI Jesse

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Re: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2010, 10:51:15 am »
Pedos have a problem to get a job or proper housing (in a way they "appear" to equate blacks but they dont) There is no equal discrimination nor one that is greater than the next.

Pedophiles face these issues for what they've done, not for who they are.  It is not illegal to lust after children, it is illegal to act on that desire.  That takes them out of this argument, where the others are descriminated against for who they are. 

Offline Magic Wand

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Re: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2010, 10:56:13 am »
There is no equal discrimination nor one that is greater than the next.


Hmmmmm....
The comparison is so ridiculous that I find it INSULTING.
No one has to know that I am gay unless I TELL them or act out in some overtly gay way.
I can act like a white man all millenium and ain't nobody gonna ever wonder whether I am or not.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 11:59:24 am by Magic Wand »
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." --Aristotle, Greek philosopher

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Offline Magic Wand

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Re: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2010, 10:57:40 am »
Pedos have a problem to get a job or proper housing (in a way they "appear" to equate blacks but they dont) There is no equal discrimination nor one that is greater than the next.

Pedophiles face these issues for what they've done, not for who they are.  It is not illegal to lust after children, it is illegal to act on that desire.  That takes them out of this argument, where the others are descriminated against for who they are. 

AGREED!
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." --Aristotle, Greek philosopher

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Offline JLI Jesse

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Re: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2010, 11:48:26 am »
No one has to know that I am gay unless I TELL them or act out in some overtly gay way.

But Wandi, in some cases couldn't acting "in some overtly gay way" also be considered acting like themselves?  If so, they then have to pretend to be/act like someone else just to be accepted.

Offline Kristopher

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Re: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2010, 11:57:05 am »
If Black Folk find the Gay Civil Rights Struggles=Black Civil Rights Struggles concept so offensive they need to tell their church folk to stop dragging out that whole tired "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" mantra out too.  

Somebody please pass this on to the living relatives of Emmett Till.

Ever heard of Brandon Teena?

We don't have the monopoly on being Hate Crime victims either.

Never heard the name. Maybe I'll look it up once I get through the THOUSANDS of Black Men, Women and Children who brutally murdered following a Civil War that supposedly freed them or the millions of Blacks who were subjected to almost 100 years of State sanctioned discrimination, reinforced by public and private TERRORISM. So, yeah MAYBE I'll look up "Brandon Teena".  You ever heard of "Sam Mosby"? Bet you haven't, and why should you? He was my Great Grandfather, just another Southern nĄgger murdered by whites in front of his family because he got too "uppity".

Offline Magic Wand

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Re: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2010, 12:10:10 pm »
No one has to know that I am gay unless I TELL them or act out in some overtly gay way.

But Wandi, in some cases couldn't acting "in some overtly gay way" also be considered acting like themselves?  If so, they then have to pretend to be/act like someone else just to be accepted.


Jesse,
My point is:  I cannot equate discrimination against gays to racial or sexual discrimination.
Maybe religious discrimination (because that doesn't have to be worn on the sleeve (or head))
But institutionalized racism against a whole race of CITIZENS is in no way equal to what gay people bring upon themselves in the United States of America.

Just so you're clear, I am not gay.  But I semi-empathize with homosexuals because I do NOT believe they choose to be gay.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." --Aristotle, Greek philosopher

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Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2010, 12:27:22 pm »
I'm not really sure what folks are arguing about here. It seems pretty clear that there are some similarities and some differences between now and 50 years ago. That is to say, making comparisons seems reasonable; "equating" the two doesn't.

That said, civil rights are for everybody. Does everybody remember this?

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Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.

– “Letter from Birmingham Jail,” 16 Apr. 1963
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: The Co-Opting of the Black struggle
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2010, 12:31:41 pm »
If Black Folk find the Gay Civil Rights Struggles=Black Civil Rights Struggles concept so offensive they need to tell their church folk to stop dragging out that whole tired "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" mantra out too.  

Somebody please pass this on to the living relatives of Emmett Till.

Ever heard of Brandon Teena?

We don't have the monopoly on being Hate Crime victims either.

Never heard the name. Maybe I'll look it up once I get through the THOUSANDS of Black Men, Women and Children who brutally murdered following a Civil War that supposedly freed them or the millions of Blacks who were subjected to almost 100 years of State sanctioned discrimination, reinforced by public and private TERRORISM. So, yeah MAYBE I'll look up "Brandon Teena".  You ever heard of "Sam Mosby"? Bet you haven't, and why should you? He was my Great Grandfather, just another Southern nĄgger murdered by whites in front of his family because he got too "uppity".

I could bring up similar stories from my own family but what's the point? It doesn't change the facts. Discrimination is Discrimination. Hate crime is Hate Crime. The "who has/had it worst argument" is irrelevent.

If you are pro-civil rights then you have to be against ALL discrimination, not just when it happens to the folks you are down with.

Otherwise just say, "I'm only against bad stuff happening to me and mine and eff everybody else".

Which is fine.    

But know you are abdicating the moral high ground.