Author Topic: SITTING OUT THE ELECTIONS?  (Read 6271 times)

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: SITTING OUT THE ELECTIONS?
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2010, 06:19:24 am »
^
"No offense" and then calling me delusional? Okay.

I said that the claim there is no difference is delusional to me. I don't think that was your position, right? So really, no offense intended. And I do understand better what you mean after your follow-up post. I think I disagree but I see what you mean.
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: SITTING OUT THE ELECTIONS?
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2010, 07:03:25 am »
I get as pissed at the Democrats as anyone.  But to quote Bill Maher, "I don't like my cell phone service either, but I don't respond by brushing my teeth with dogsh*t". 

There's a big difference between criticizing the Democrats (which they roundly deserve) and saying "there is no difference between them and the Republicans". 

When progressives get apathetic, the party doesn't correct itself and pull to the left.  It goes where the active voters are, which is to the right.  Concede and you get more of what you don't like.

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: SITTING OUT THE ELECTIONS?
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2010, 07:06:22 am »
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 07:07:57 am by Curtis Metcalf »
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline Battle

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Re: SITTING OUT THE ELECTIONS?
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2010, 10:48:53 am »
>>>Curtis Metcalf


That's the best Candorville strip yet...   Especially the first two panels! :-*

Offline Battle

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Re: SITTING OUT THE ELECTIONS?
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2010, 11:01:30 am »
We Are A Nation Of Leaders*
We Move Forward, Not Back!


Get out the vote, HEF!














*HEF trivial:  Can you name all of America's leaders onboard in Emanuel Gottlieb Leutze's classic painting, "WASHINGTON CROSSING
THE DELAWARE"?

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: SITTING OUT THE ELECTIONS?
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2010, 04:13:35 pm »
I get as pissed at the Democrats as anyone.  But to quote Bill Maher, "I don't like my cell phone service either, but I don't respond by brushing my teeth with dogsh*t".  

There's a big difference between criticizing the Democrats (which they roundly deserve) and saying "there is no difference between them and the Republicans".  

When progressives get apathetic, the party doesn't correct itself and pull to the left.  It goes where the active voters are, which is to the right.  Concede and you get more of what you don't like.

I don't get the analogy. I guess its supposed to be nonsensical like dissenting liberals/progressives are supposed to nonsensical? Yeah, that's a great way to convince these people to come back under the tent, insult them. I think there is a difference between the Republicans and the Democrats, but I also think that they are two branches on the same tree and its fertilized by corporate dollars. So, yeah, there are differences but there are a lot of similiarities too. And I think both sides demonize the others to gin up votes when they aren't all that different.

I disagree that energized liberals shift the party left. That hasn't happened. When the White House Chief of Staff calls liberals retarded and the Press Secretary takes potshots at the 'professional left' and the President himself pretty much tells disappointed Democrats to suck it up, not in those words of course, this doesn't show a pattern of respect for progressive voters. If anything, progressives are expected to supply votes, energy, and then sit down and shut up while the grown folks run the government. White voters, in the middle, or independent are still more prized and many Democrats have calculated, perhaps since Carter and definitely with Clinton and the Democratic Leadership Council, that the best way to appeal to those voters is to go right. The GOP effectively tarred liberalism, with a relentless assault since the late 1960s and it has never recovered. When liberal politicians feel they have to run away from their own inclinations, policy programs, or ideas, we've got a problem and that's where I feel the Democrats have been for a long time. They are a party at war with itself, propped up by coalitions that its elite, largely white, leadership don't particularly have much respect for or feel a need to adequately represent. Because at the end of the day the goal of a political party is to win and the Democrats have lost an effective way to win nationally on their ideas or vision. Clinton provided a blueprint but Gore couldn't carry the ball forward and the New Democrat/Third Way fizzled.

To be fair, a reenergized progressive/activist/blogger bent helped discredit/reject Clintonism. As did Bill Clinton's foilables in the later stages of his presidency. He seemed to leave a lot of people exhausted and ready to turn the page completely. I think the hope was that Obama would represent a way to win and govern beyond the compromises and triangulation of the Clinton years. That he could create a new political realignment. He hasn't done that, if anything he's sort of operated like Clinton, though with less personal drama but perhaps less empathy, or at least empathy as recognized by the media. So, to some extent, he's in a quandry partly of his making, partly of the chaotic times we live in.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 04:18:36 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: SITTING OUT THE ELECTIONS?
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2010, 04:40:17 am »
So, EJ, what exactly are you suggesting for this election? Not voting at all? No compute.
Go ahead and complain all you want. In fact, organize and agitate. But on election day, it's participate or abdicate. There are no other choices.


"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: SITTING OUT THE ELECTIONS?
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2010, 02:01:54 pm »
Once again, its not that simple. There are a lot of folk who vote frequently and haven't gotten much change to show for it. I don't think people shouldn't vote. I just voted, however I can understand why some don't vote and scolding them, insulting them, or referencing Selma for the 50-11th time isn't going to move them like some of the black Democrats and their allies are prone to do. There is a deep well of cynicism, well deserved, among some of the electorate regarding voting's ability to do much. Voting is just one tool, not the whole shebang.

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: SITTING OUT THE ELECTIONS?
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2010, 02:56:11 pm »
Voting is just one tool, not the whole shebang.

I couldn't agree more.
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."