Author Topic: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba  (Read 11485 times)

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba
« Reply #120 on: March 26, 2011, 06:53:40 AM »
Call me weird, but I think I'd rather see a Bill Foster, Giant Man series on HBO before a Power Man or Black Panther movie.  I get the feeling he'd be waaaaaaay more interesting then Hank Pym... or even make Hank the antagonist... 


They can fight over who's "bigger"....heh.

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Re: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba
« Reply #121 on: March 27, 2011, 01:18:20 AM »
So the Nazis ARE in this movie, it is just that the movie focuses on Hydra as the Nazi’s mad scientist branch. And to be fair, in the comics, the Red Skull is portrayed as being so evil that even Hitler’s scared of him.   


They were ALWAYS in the movie, the director said so MONTHS ago, but fanboys don't research ish. They'd rather rage over ONE photo that was more that likely AFTER Red Skull defected and turned against his Nazi benefactors. Context, logic, RESEARCH seem to be the mortal enemies of fanboys looking for a soapbox.

We'll see if at any point in the Captain America film the Red Skull is shown wearing any Nazi regalia. Don't hold your breath.

Vic, of course there will be some Nazis (given that it is WWII) but not the film's most evil character. For the reasons I stated above, most notably that the Red Skull was always the paradigmatic Nazi, I find that to be objectionable. Like, really, more evil than Hitler? What does that even mean?

And I agree all of this should have been discussed on the Cap thread; said that myself above also.  However, Reginald (in response to an aside I made when talking primarily about Thor) chose to focus on the issue on this thread, so ... there you go. Conversation ended up here.

Offline Kristopher

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Thor, Idris Elba and the Integration of Viking Movies
« Reply #122 on: April 21, 2011, 07:11:03 AM »
As of last Friday, 1,473 people liked the "Boycott Thor (2011) by Marvel Studios" Facebook page. Among those showing their virtual disapproval of director Kenneth Branagh's upcoming comic book moive is Elmer Smith of Bradenton, Florida, a "47 year old proud son of the South" with a Confederate flag combined with skull and crossbones as his profile pic. On the Facebook page itself, Ian Tucker writes, "I'll watch this when they remake 'Shaft' with a white guy." Nikola Brdja Spaskeh, assault rifle in hand in his profile image, adds, "Jewlywood, more History, less Political Correctness and Liberal Agenda," before wondering if Hollywood will make a movie with "Will Smith as Adolf Hitler" and bemoaning the stealing of European heritage. There is also a link where you can buy "Boycott Thor" t-shirts, bumper stickers and even aprons on zazzle.com.

The reason for the outrage isn't that Will Smith was cast as the Norse God of Thunder, but because Idis Elba, a British actor of African parentage best known as Stringer Bell on "The Wire," has been chosen to play Heimdall, the steadfast guardian of the rainbow bridge to Asgard. The boycott was organized late last year by the Council of Conservative Citizens, a white nationalist organization that condemns interracial marriage and refers to blacks as "a retrograde species of humanity." A December 27, 2010 entry on the group's "Boycott Thor" website rages against the multi-racial Valhalla depicted in the upcoming movie, and points out that Stan Lee "has personally funded Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy."

"It is very clear where his bias lies," the anonymous author quips.

Surprisingly, African American fantasy author Charles Saunders, creator of the Sub-Saharan sword and sorcery hero Imaro, weighs in on the side of those who want to keep Heimdall white. "The internal integrity of those mythologies should be acknowledged and respected," he writes in a Jan. 25 blog post titled "The Heimdall Hullabaloo." Saunders' reasons for disparaging an African Heimdall stem from being asked to rework his African descended characters as Caucasians for a 1985 Roger Corman produced film called "Amazons." Saunders finds Hollywood cynicism as the motivation for shifting the race of his own characters in the 1980s and Heimdall today. "To my mind there is something wrong with both pictures," Saunders concludes, "and I don't need the likes of the Council of Conservative Citizens or 'Boycott Thor' to tell me that."

But both Saunders and the Council of Conservative Citizens get this all horribly wrong. The casting of Elba has nothing to do with the cultural authenticity of 8th Century Scandinavian seafarers, but instead hails from a mid-20th Century American cinematic tradition. A few years before the sit-ins, Freedom Rides or the passage of the Voting Rights Act, the Viking movies produced with American stars and financing had started the march towards integration with the casting of Trinidad-born Calypso singer Edric Connor as Sandpiper in the 1958 Kirk Douglas epic "The Vikings." However, Connor's role in "The Vikings" is closer to a slave narrative than a berserker's saga as he and Tony Curtis escape their Norse bondage by stealing a ship and sailing it for England. This one sequence of "The Vikings" has an alarming parallel to "The Defiant Ones," Curtis' other major film of 1958 where he and Sydney Poitier are chained together as they make their getaway from a brutal Southern chain gang.

During the same year that Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act into law, Sydney Poitier's Moorish king in "The Long Ships" (1964) was an antagonistic equal to Richard Widmark's Viking treasure hunter. Poitier and Widmark had already faced off from opposite sides of the color line in the tense racial drama "No Way Out" (1950), which was also Poitier's first film. "The Long Ships" would see the two replaying this conflict only with more swordplay and Viking panty raids on Portier's harem. Although the conflict between Moor and Viking is unlikely to upset even the most bigoted "Thor" boycotter, "The Long Ships" shows a reticence on the part of producers to place Vikings in a mono-ethnic setting.

More thorough integration of movie Vikings would have to wait all the way until 1978 with the release of "The Norseman," a bargain basement effort filmed in Florida swampland with Lee Majors wearing a Roman breastplate for some reason and Italian guys in obvious wigs as totally evil Native Americans. As dwindling factory production in America had become integrated during the last throes of organized labor dominance, "The Norseman" gives us NFL hall of famer Deacon Jones in a horned helmet fighting alongside guys with names like Thorvald, Ragnar and Olif. Near the film's conclusion, Jones risks Indian arrows to carry the corpse of a fallen Viking back to the ship because the dead man "deserves a Norse burial." Unfortunately, Jones' character is named Thrall although it's doubtful that a Heimdall of any color would bar his entrance into Valhalla when the time comes.

And now that the US has its first African American president, we also have black Heimdall standing guard over the Rainbow Bridge, deciding which warriors are worthy of entering a multi-ethnic Asgard like an armor plated St. Peter. While the 1,473 boycotters clicking on the thumb icon on the "Boycott Thor" Facebook page will hardly matter to the success of Marvel/Paramount's "Thor," Elba still felt the need to answer his critics as recently as last week. In an April 8 interview with "Female First," Elba admits to questioning race when Branagh first offered him the role, but later came around. "It was so refreshing - and a testament to him as an actor and director that his casting was genuinely color blind," Elba said before adding, "I feel very proud of being part of that movie."

What should rankle white supremacists even more is that a New York Jew who fought the Nazis during World War II is responsible for making the Norse Thunder God into a modern super hero. Marvel Comics artist Jack Kirby along with writer Stan Lee first put Thor into a comic book in 1962, and had him doing things that were decidedly inauthentic. During Thor's early four-color adventures, he fought the Stone Men of Saturn, Robert Louis Stevenson's Mr. Hyde, and even the Greek gods. Four years later, Kirby integrated Marvel's characters with the creation of the Black Panther, the first black superhero. "There were plenty of white super heroes, so I thought there should be a black hero too," Kirby told me unpretentiously during one of the times I was fortunate enough to speak with him. After Kirby jumped to DC Comics in the early 1970s, he created that company's first black super hero as well in the debut issue of "The Forever People" (1971). Ironically, that character's name was Vykin the Black.

Bob Calhoun is the author of  the bestselling punk-wrestling memoir, Beer, Blood and Cornmeal: Seven Years of Incredibly Strange Wrestling, which is available through Amazon.com. You can follow him on Twitter @bob_calhoun.

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

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Re: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba
« Reply #123 on: April 21, 2011, 11:38:38 AM »
As anti-intellectual as America is why doesn't someone in the media actually embarass these racist fools with history.

Thor, Hercules, Beowulf and any other White mythic hero is based on AFRICAN MYTHOLOGY. Sumeria provides the inspiration for almost all of heroic fiction along with Babylon, Mesopatamia and Egypt.

The Stan Lee and Jack Kirby would be priceless as well.

Reporter- Comics are a wholesome form of American born entertainment. Look at this character THOR, back in the 60's when we were proud to be White THOR was an example to the White youth.

Racist Moron- You are absolutely right! Why can't we have our White heroes and the nigg.. Uh the Blacks have their's?

Reporter- Exactly! When those 2 Jewish guys were creating THOR stories back then that was just what this country needed.

Racist Moron- Did you say "JEWISH" guys?

Reporter- Yeah Stan Lieber and Jack Kurtzberg better known as Stan Lee and Jack Kirby as I was saying


Racist Moron- This interview is over!

Offline Cage

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Re: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba
« Reply #124 on: April 21, 2011, 01:22:09 PM »
I get to page four of this thread and realize why I have really reduced my time on-line. Sorry not finishing this thread. Some people just talk out of their ass.
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Offline Redjack

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Re: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba
« Reply #125 on: April 22, 2011, 07:06:20 AM »
As anti-intellectual as America is why doesn't someone in the media actually embarass these racist fools with history.

Thor, Hercules, Beowulf and any other White mythic hero is based on AFRICAN MYTHOLOGY. Sumeria provides the inspiration for almost all of heroic fiction along with Babylon, Mesopatamia and Egypt.

The Stan Lee and Jack Kirby would be priceless as well.

Reporter- Comics are a wholesome form of American born entertainment. Look at this character THOR, back in the 60's when we were proud to be White THOR was an example to the White youth.

Racist Moron- You are absolutely right! Why can't we have our White heroes and the nigg.. Uh the Blacks have their's?

Reporter- Exactly! When those 2 Jewish guys were creating THOR stories back then that was just what this country needed.

Racist Moron- Did you say "JEWISH" guys?

Reporter- Yeah Stan Lieber and Jack Kurtzberg better known as Stan Lee and Jack Kirby as I was saying


Racist Moron- This interview is over!

both the article writer and Mr. Sergeant have  some points wrong, largely concerned with the origins of the myths in question (and the Black Panther was not the first black superhero). i understand the sentiment- wanting to rewrite and to include based on modern values- but this isn't the way to do it. it's clumsy and, frankly, insulting.

i will be seeing the movie but using elba was and remains a silly unnecessary mistake.
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Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

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Re: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba
« Reply #126 on: April 22, 2011, 02:17:33 PM »
As anti-intellectual as America is why doesn't someone in the media actually embarass these racist fools with history.

Thor, Hercules, Beowulf and any other White mythic hero is based on AFRICAN MYTHOLOGY. Sumeria provides the inspiration for almost all of heroic fiction along with Babylon, Mesopatamia and Egypt.

The Stan Lee and Jack Kirby would be priceless as well.

Reporter- Comics are a wholesome form of American born entertainment. Look at this character THOR, back in the 60's when we were proud to be White THOR was an example to the White youth.

Racist Moron- You are absolutely right! Why can't we have our White heroes and the nigg.. Uh the Blacks have their's?

Reporter- Exactly! When those 2 Jewish guys were creating THOR stories back then that was just what this country needed.

Racist Moron- Did you say "JEWISH" guys?

Reporter- Yeah Stan Lieber and Jack Kurtzberg better known as Stan Lee and Jack Kirby as I was saying


Racist Moron- This interview is over!

both the article writer and Mr. Sergeant have  some points wrong, largely concerned with the origins of the myths in question (and the Black Panther was not the first black superhero). i understand the sentiment- wanting to rewrite and to include based on modern values- but this isn't the way to do it. it's clumsy and, frankly, insulting.

i will be seeing the movie but using elba was and remains a silly unnecessary mistake.

What points do I have wrong in terms of the myths in question?

GILGAMESH is the oldest written work in the history of mankind. The king of Uruk is clearly the archetype for most of the heroic adventurerers that followed. Furthermore, the fertile crescent provides the framework for much of the Greek and Roman pantheon which power most of the heroic poems that we know today.

Joseph Campbell had a great documentary on PBS before he died which chronicled much of this subject, in addition there is also his perenial classic HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES.

I want to be clear that I am actually curious about what I have wrong and am not being argumentaive in any way.

Offline Redjack

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Re: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba
« Reply #127 on: April 22, 2011, 02:54:47 PM »
Campbell's seminal works do NOT create a straight-line timeline between the cultures you're talking about but rather makes, very clearly, the point that humans will come up with the same sorts of gods independent of surface cultural differences. The point he was making, and made well, was that we are all, basically, speaking and beleive the same truths and dressing them in slightly different costumes.

While you can draw a straight line between Egyptian, Summarian and the entire judeo-christian-islamic mythologies, you cannot do the same for the various polynesian, nordic, amerindian (guh, hate that word), south american and asian pantheons.

There is zero real-world justification for making a viking god black when zero viking gods were back, nor were blacks MENTIONED in the vedas.

You cannot truly link loki with eshu or hela with hades or Kali. they don't actually fit beyond being different cultural attempts to personify certain natural forces/events/concepts.

humans only make up a very few answers when they have limited data. The similarity of the various world mythologies is proof of that, not that all of them were born in Africa or the middle east. it simply didn't happen like that.

Elba is in the film to get blacks to feel included. yeah, he's a GREAT actor. No question. But I guarantee he wasn't the first name on the list for Heimdahl. No way.

I'm sure there will be at least one Asian character (Hogun the Grim is the most likely). And a girl who could pass for Puerto Rican/South American/East indian/Polynesian.

That has NOTHING to do with being true to the mythology (or Thor would be more like the original Hulk with a red beard and tiny hammer).  it's commerce. Cynical, back ass racism that, to me is vaguely insulting.

"We will never make Icon; instead, have Hancock."
"We will never make Black Lightning; instead have Meteor Man."

"We will never make a film about black gods returning to earth (chinese are okay because THEY have Kung Fu!) but we'll toss you a bone. Ummmmm. Here. Take Heimdhal. He's really cool looking while he JUST STANDS THERE looking tough."

Yeah. I'm going to see it.  Yeah, I'll probably love it. But get a grip. Nobody's looking out for us. Nobody.

We have to do it or it won't get done.

« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 02:57:18 PM by Redjack »
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Offline Open palm

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Re: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba
« Reply #128 on: April 22, 2011, 04:02:14 PM »
So go do it. Actors still need to work. Hollywood will keep churning.
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Offline Redjack

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Re: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba
« Reply #129 on: April 22, 2011, 06:22:20 PM »
So go do it. Actors still need to work. Hollywood will keep churning.

I'm ready, toss me the 20 million i need to get started.

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Offline Battle

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Re: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba
« Reply #130 on: April 22, 2011, 08:59:12 PM »

I'm ready, toss me the 20 million i need to get started.





I sometimes feel the same way about making a movie project happen.  Just grant me the budget and I'll get 'er done!

I think RedJack can do it once given the chance  BUT can he sell a movie to a mass audience and double what you've borrowed?  

Offline Redjack

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Re: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba
« Reply #131 on: April 22, 2011, 09:06:06 PM »

I'm ready, toss me the 20 million i need to get started.





I sometimes feel the same way about making a movie project happen.  Just grant me the budget and I'll get 'er done!

I think RedJack can do it once given the chance  BUT can he sell a movie to a mass audience and double what you've borrowed?  

That's the big question. There still aren't enough of us backstage, in executive positions, for my skin color and that alone not to be the determining factor on something huge and new.

let me put it like this:

If BOOK OF ELI or HANCOCK or BLADE had failed, everyone would have said, "well, see? black leads can't make money for us in big budget films."

Obviously none of them failed and the actors who headlined them (well, Wesley has some other issues going on) have big careers. But nowhere does any exec say, "Hmm. I've got this action/scifi flick to make with an unknown non-white lead, let me dump a cool 30+ million into it."

They DO do that with unknown white guys. AVATAR anybody?

yeah. if you think I'm not working to that goal every day, you haven't been paying attention.

and i'm not even first in line.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 11:23:33 PM by Redjack »
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Offline Battle

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Re: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba
« Reply #132 on: April 22, 2011, 09:15:51 PM »

if you think I'm not working to that goal every day, you haven't been paying attention.

and i'm not even first in line.





The reason I think you can do it because I think you have the balls to do it plus I think you have something to say (in a movie) to anyone who's patient enough to listen.  You just have to be patient, consistant and have forsight and understand that it's all about timing than anything else.

Offline Open palm

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Re: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba
« Reply #133 on: April 22, 2011, 10:51:46 PM »
Geez, if it's just action films I doubt I'll be lining up. I've passed on so many summer flicks and waited for the cable release. 
Do you prefer a hero who will confirm your deepest fears? Or a hero who will inspire faith in humanity and goodness?

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

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Re: White Supremacists Boycott ‘Thor’ over Idris Elba
« Reply #134 on: April 23, 2011, 01:22:49 PM »
Campbell's seminal works do NOT create a straight-line timeline between the cultures you're talking about but rather makes, very clearly, the point that humans will come up with the same sorts of gods independent of surface cultural differences. The point he was making, and made well, was that we are all, basically, speaking and beleive the same truths and dressing them in slightly different costumes.

While you can draw a straight line between Egyptian, Summarian and the entire judeo-christian-islamic mythologies, you cannot do the same for the various polynesian, nordic, amerindian (guh, hate that word), south american and asian pantheons.

There is zero real-world justification for making a viking god black when zero viking gods were back, nor were blacks MENTIONED in the vedas.

You cannot truly link loki with eshu or hela with hades or Kali. they don't actually fit beyond being different cultural attempts to personify certain natural forces/events/concepts.

humans only make up a very few answers when they have limited data. The similarity of the various world mythologies is proof of that, not that all of them were born in Africa or the middle east. it simply didn't happen like that.

Elba is in the film to get blacks to feel included. yeah, he's a GREAT actor. No question. But I guarantee he wasn't the first name on the list for Heimdahl. No way.

I'm sure there will be at least one Asian character (Hogun the Grim is the most likely). And a girl who could pass for Puerto Rican/South American/East indian/Polynesian.

That has NOTHING to do with being true to the mythology (or Thor would be more like the original Hulk with a red beard and tiny hammer).  it's commerce. Cynical, back ass racism that, to me is vaguely insulting.

"We will never make Icon; instead, have Hancock."
"We will never make Black Lightning; instead have Meteor Man."

"We will never make a film about black gods returning to earth (chinese are okay because THEY have Kung Fu!) but we'll toss you a bone. Ummmmm. Here. Take Heimdhal. He's really cool looking while he JUST STANDS THERE looking tough."

Yeah. I'm going to see it.  Yeah, I'll probably love it. But get a grip. Nobody's looking out for us. Nobody.

We have to do it or it won't get done.



If you think my pointing out the origins of myths is somehow justifying Elba being included then you are dead wrong.

The point was that when these protesters argue over a lily White presentation of the mythology they have NO idea about the history of heroic myth and how ALL OF IT is attributed to African culture. It is comprable to people who rail against the inclusion of Black actors for Biblical figures when they conveniently miss the point that the book takes place primarily in Africa.

These protesters are not concerned with authenticity, they are concerned that Blacks are being attached to a popular myth that may now have a 21st century inlcusive version become the norm.

There is a broader point about the presentation of history, both fictional and non-fictional, that has to be addressed when speaking of the film industry in particular and American society as a whole.