World Without Supers

[Frostbite883]

What if super powered beings such as Superman, Sinestro, Spider-Man,
Fire, Wolverine and others never existed...outside of comic books?

What happens if some universe just had hardcore normals as their heroes, villains and grays?

How would these non-powered heroes, villains and grays do in that universe?

Would things be for the better without the supers around?

How would the populace feel towards these people?

Who would be the top hero(es), villain(s) and gray(s) of that universe?

And finally, who would be the top hero/villain/gray team of that 'verse?

Note: The universe here is a combination of both the DC & Marvel
universes during the Dark Age period, this whole thing will take
place in real time and the only heroes, villains and grays that'll
actually exist in this scenario are the ones that were created
in comic books first.

There will be no spiritual, intersteller, extradimensional, monstrous, anthromorphic,
godly and supernatural beings in this universe. As well as gods, immortals,
cyborgs, mutants, time/multiversal machines, divine power, magic and everything
else that'll grant people super powers internally (incl. Bane).

The cloning process will be similar to ours in the real world, supers who
are blood related to humans will only exist as normals in this alternate
DC/Marvel world (ex. Black Canary II) and whether y'all want to
have Captain America in this scenario or not, it's up to you.

Artificial intelligence, armored normals and people with cybernetic implants of comic book standards
won't exist in this universe and for the normals with the skill/talent to build that stuff, but don't use them
on a daily basis, those abilities will be downplayed to real world standards (ex. Mr. Terrific II).

Oh, BTW, grays is a term I'd used for anybody who're somewhere between the hero and villain route.

[KIP LEWIS]

If super-heroes didn't exist to crowd out the rest of the market, we'd still have the following:

The cowboy stories, like the Two-gun Kid

The romance stories, like Patsy Walker

The humor books. like (did Marvel have a title like Archie/Richie Rich/Casper?)

Police books and later books about criminals.

Spy books like Bond

Sci-fi stories like those that existed in the 60s and 70s that often had a Twilight Zone/Outer Limits feel.

And then we would add

The martial art style books that we see in Manga.  (Not the super-powered kind, but ones like Crying Freeman.  Normal people with martial arts skills.)

Any and all  existing characters would find a slot in these books.

[Battle]

If super-heroes didn't exist to crowd out the rest of the market, we'd still have the following:

The cowboy stories, like the Two-gun Kid

The romance stories, like Patsy Walker

The humor books. like (did Marvel have a title like Archie/Richie Rich/Casper?)

Police books and later books about criminals.

Spy books like Bond

Sci-fi stories like those that existed in the 60s and 70s that often had a Twilight Zone/Outer Limits feel.

And then we would add

The martial art style books that we see in Manga.  (Not the super-powered kind, but ones like Crying Freeman.  Normal people with martial arts skills.)

Any and all  existing characters would find a slot in these books.

Actually, we STILL have all those things.

[Reginald Hudlin]

And you'd have characters like Batman. But no Superman, Green Lantern or Wonder Woman. 

[KIP LEWIS]

If super-heroes didn't exist to crowd out the rest of the market, we'd still have the following:

The cowboy stories, like the Two-gun Kid

The romance stories, like Patsy Walker

The humor books. like (did Marvel have a title like Archie/Richie Rich/Casper?)

Police books and later books about criminals.

Spy books like Bond

Sci-fi stories like those that existed in the 60s and 70s that often had a Twilight Zone/Outer Limits feel.

And then we would add

The martial art style books that we see in Manga.  (Not the super-powered kind, but ones like Crying Freeman.  Normal people with martial arts skills.)

Any and all  existing characters would find a slot in these books.

Actually, we STILL have all those things.

But the question related to Marvel n DC and they haven't had a romance title in decades.  Other than one attempt, they haven't had cowboy books for just as long.   The last pure martial arts books was Master of Kung Fu and that ended in the 80s, except for a mini.   The closest we get to them are adaptions of movies/books, but I was't including them.

[Battle]

But the question related to Marvel n DC and they haven't had a romance title in decades.  Other than one attempt, they haven't had cowboy books for just as long.   The last pure martial arts books was Master of Kung Fu and that ended in the 80s, except for a mini.   The closest we get to them are adaptions of movies/books, but I was't including them.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear.   MARVEL still have romance stories but those stories are not issued as self-contained titles.  They're integrated into the existing superhero titles.  The same can be said about humor books.  I think I saw an ad for Franklin Richards a few years back.  The police books are integrated into the existing superhero titles.  So are the stories about criminals.  Spy stories are also integrated into the existing superhero titles.  Sci-Fi, martial arts, and so on...

I'm not certain about cowboy stories being told although I do remember seeing a cowboy title by a different publisher on the shelves a couple years back.


dc?  I wouldn't know  because I don't give a damn about them.

[Vic Vega]

But the question related to Marvel n DC and they haven't had a romance title in decades.  Other than one attempt, they haven't had cowboy books for just as long.   The last pure martial arts books was Master of Kung Fu and that ended in the 80s, except for a mini.   The closest we get to them are adaptions of movies/books, but I was't including them.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear.   MARVEL still have romance stories but those stories are not issued as self-contained titles.  They're integrated into the existing superhero titles.  The same can be said about humor books.  I think I saw an ad for Franklin Richards a few years back.  The police books are integrated into the existing superhero titles.  So are the stories about criminals.  Spy stories are also integrated into the existing superhero titles.  Sci-Fi, martial arts, and so on...

I'm not certain about cowboy stories being told although I do remember seeing a cowboy title by a different publisher on the shelves a couple years back.


dc?  I wouldn't know  because I don't give a damn about them.

I follow this stuff because i kind of hate how super heroes heve taken over the big 2 to the point where Im likely to pick up anything the big 2 do in a different genre to support variety.

Marvel is planning to publish 16 Love, a romance miniseries featuring a highschooler trying to balance school and her tennis career. 2 years ago they published Models, Inc. And brought back all those Millie the the Model romance type characters. That book was set in the Marvel Universe so one of the models was dating Johnny Storm, another one actually was a Super hero-Hellcat(the rest of them just treated it as something she does on her spare time!) really bizzare stuff.

When Bill Jemas was at Marvel, we got about 3 Rawhide Kid miniseries. Two were played straight and one was like Zorro the Gay Blade( the serious ones were in continuity, the other one wasnt).

Last i checked DC still published Jonah Hex(western) and Mike Grell's Warlord(lost world fantasy).

Given DC's reverence for the War Comic genre, Sgt. Rock and Joe Kubert (not in that order) DC is good for a WW2 miniseries every other year. Of course the Vertigo ine was built on fantasy/horror (Swamp Thing, John Constantine).

What DC has a problem with oddly enough is Science Fiction. Unless you want to could Adam Strange(who is pretty much a Super hero) Ellis' Transmetropolitan was thier only real hit in that genre.

[KIP LEWIS]

Vic, the reason Hellcat was in that series because Patsy Walker began as main character of one of Marvel's romance titles.  She and her boy-friend/husband crossed over the super-hero titles when Hank McCoy became the furry Beast.

[Frostbite883]

How 'bout we up the ante and say that you and your family line lived in that universe.
 
How would you and your fam do in a world like that?

[Vic Vega]

Vic, the reason Hellcat was in that series because Patsy Walker began as main character of one of Marvel's romance titles.  She and her boy-friend/husband crossed over the super-hero titles when Hank McCoy became the furry Beast.

Oh I knew that Kip, but it made the end product an odd mix of comedy adventure(one of the other models gets jealous of Hellcat and decides that she wants to fght crime too) and superheroics(a murder mystery played straight).

I don't know WHO that book was supposed to appeal too(and I doubt Marvel did either).

@Frostbite883:

O.K. let me try to answer your question(or what I think you were asking).

In a world without any powers or uber-tech whatsoever guys like Batman would run everything. He has the best of both worlds: He's a bad ass normal who is rich enough to afford an arsenal. Not only that but he has army of sidekicks, ex-sidekicks and helpers assisting him. The other end of the spectrum would be the Green Arrow family, where each member is a master archer with a combat sub specialty(Ollie is a swordsman, Roy uses guns and Connor is a master martial artist) but they have no money.

With no Superman, Lex Luthor is merely another amoral fantastically weathy business man. The most dangerous villains would be terrorists like Ras Al Ghul and Kobra or terror organizations like Hydra and Aim.

Captain America and Bucky would be the titles of America's most elites fighter chosen to undergo steroid and growth hormone enhancements. They'd produce a new Cap and Bucky every 10 years (unless they got killed before then). The Black Panther would be the product of selective breeding.   Hawkeye and Mockingbird would operate unchanged. Daredevil would be a Zatochi like blind swordman.

There would be no Justice League or Avengers, only the Seven Soldiers Of Victory(Green Arrow, Speedy Black Canary, Arsenal, Vigilante, Mr. Terrific and Dr. Midnite) and the Marvel Knights(Daredevil, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Mockingbird, Moon Knight, Shang Chi. Batman is a team in and of himself

The guy who might make out the best in all this is the Punisher.

The other heroes would be too busy trying to survive themselves to care what he does.

[Curtis Metcalf]

How 'bout we up the ante and say that you and your family line lived in that universe.

Maybe I'm not understanding the premise properly but isn't that the world we do live in?

[Vic Vega]

How 'bout we up the ante and say that you and your family line lived in that universe.

Maybe I'm not understanding the premise properly but isn't that the world we do live in?

Well, Phoenix Jones and them to the contrary, costumed vigilantes aren't running around unchecked in the real world, I think.

Yet.

[Curtis Metcalf]

How 'bout we up the ante and say that you and your family line lived in that universe.

Maybe I'm not understanding the premise properly but isn't that the world we do live in?

Well, Phoenix Jones and them to the contrary, costumed vigilantes aren't running around unchecked in the real world, I think.

Yet.

Phoenix Jones and DC's Guardian.  

[Vic Vega]

How 'bout we up the ante and say that you and your family line lived in that universe.

Maybe I'm not understanding the premise properly but isn't that the world we do live in?

Well, Phoenix Jones and them to the contrary, costumed vigilantes aren't running around unchecked in the real world, I think.

Yet.

Phoenix Jones and DC's Guardian.  

D'oh!!!

I might be more messed up the those guys, because what I got from the interview was...Dear God, Phoenix Jones  has an ORIGIN STORY!?!?!

Oh and this:

MARTIN: Can I just ask you though, and I hope I can ask this without being perceived as being disrespectful because I don't intend to be. But the thing for a lot of people thing for a lot of people it is the costume. A lot of people just think why are grownups dressing up in costumes?

Mr. JONES: I actually started off with no costumes and that's why I love this question. Originally, I just had like I said, the ski mask from the robbery that happened in to car and I would just be wearing jeans and I would take whatever shirt I was wearing and just, you know, if I saw a crime walk around the building, take the shirt off, throw the ski mask on, stop crime. And the cops would roll up and pull guns on me and force me on the floor every time.

MARTIN: And you're shocked by this because?

 

Mr. JONES: Well, I'm not. I look like a robber. But now I'm Phoenix Jones and I'm a symbol. When cops pull up to a situation I'm in, they may not like me but they start off every conversation with: okay Phoenix, what's happening now.

They are entertaining lunatics, I'll give them that.

[Curtis Metcalf]

I thought you might like that. I was screaming with laughter when I heard the interview.