Author Topic: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man  (Read 40095 times)

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #75 on: August 13, 2011, 06:56:51 am »
I generally agree that things shouldn't be the "black" whatever....like, I don't want to do the "black" Vanity Fair.  I want to create an original magazine but Vanity Fair might be one of the reference points. 

That said, weird world of comics, these brands mean a lot.  And it's not an either/or strategy.  Black Spider Man is a big deal.  And his success will help black characters period.

Offline Open palm

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #76 on: August 13, 2011, 04:38:07 pm »
I don't collect the Ultimate titles. But this was the most brilliant way to introduce a black Spider-Man. Ultimate Peter Parker is dead. A new day begins.
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Offline Moose100

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #77 on: August 13, 2011, 06:56:59 pm »
I generally agree that things shouldn't be the "black" whatever....like, I don't want to do the "black" Vanity Fair.  I want to create an original magazine but Vanity Fair might be one of the reference points. 

That said, weird world of comics, these brands mean a lot.  And it's not an either/or strategy.  Black Spider Man is a big deal.  And his success will help black characters period.

Is that what you think they mean by "gimmick". I drop in on forums to say that the term is suspect and all hell breaks loose.

Offline JLI Jesse

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #78 on: August 13, 2011, 07:18:15 pm »
Is that what you think they mean by "gimmick". I drop in on forums to say that the term is suspect and all hell breaks loose.

My "gimmick-sense" seems to go off whenever something is revealed/spoiled to the press before comic fans actually have a chance to read it.  

The new spider-man is revealed to be black and hispanic before people get a chance to read the book?  Gimmick.
Captain America and the Human Torch's deaths are spoiled in the press before the book comes out?  Gimmick.
Batwoman is revealed to be a lesbian in the press before she "comes out" in the comics? Gimmick.

Now Reness Montaya being a lesbian was not a gimmick.  She was well known by this generation from Batman: The Animated Series, but it just was part of a really interesting story.  No need to shout it from the roof tops for non comic readers while spoiling the story for loyal readers.

But just because something is a gimmick doesn't mean it can't also be a good story.  That all depends on the quality and popularity of the book once the initial announcement has worn off.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 07:19:46 pm by JLI Jesse »

Offline Mastrmynd

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #79 on: August 13, 2011, 08:37:57 pm »
USA Today is NOT going to run a story about Montoya being gay.  wouldnt even put it on the back page.
cap, torch and spidey will not only sell comics, but newspapers as well.
plus puttin' a spoiler out like that might get former and new readers into LCBS and they might buy other stuff. i see a lot of possible winners.
the death of black goliath? not even in a highlights magazines.
i mean if marvel wrapped him in a tarp and buried him in a hole...  then u know a major publication won't care about him


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Offline JLI Jesse

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #80 on: August 13, 2011, 09:46:02 pm »
cap, torch and spidey will not only sell comics, but newspapers as well.

But for me, the fact that they care more about press than respecting me as a 20+ year comic reader is a major turn off.  I don't want my comics spoiled in the USA Today.  I want to read them and be surprised.  I started reading around x-men 1 but the first real event i remember was fatal attractions.  Magneto ripping Wolverine's adamantium through his pours rocked my world.  I never saw it coming and it affected me as a comic reader for months to come.  These days I would have read about that online 3 days before it happens and would have ruined the experience for me.

Offline Open palm

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #81 on: August 14, 2011, 03:32:06 am »
Is this really a gimmick? Have they been resurrecting dead Ultimate characters lately? Did anybody even notice how they've been killing off so many Ultimate characters since its launch? If they stick to this character then it's not a gimmick, it's progress.
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Offline Open palm

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #82 on: August 14, 2011, 03:35:44 am »
USA Today is NOT going to run a story about Montoya being gay.  wouldnt even put it on the back page.

Renee Montoya and Maggie Sawyer are not popular DC characters. The public doesn't even know Montoya succeeded the Question after he died. Aside from AfterEllen.com, the media doesn't even know that DC supervillain Scandal Savage married her girlfriend, Liann, and her newly resurrected girlfriend, Knockout.
Do you prefer a hero who will confirm your deepest fears? Or a hero who will inspire faith in humanity and goodness?

Offline Moose100

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #83 on: August 14, 2011, 07:33:05 am »
Is that what you think they mean by "gimmick". I drop in on forums to say that the term is suspect and all hell breaks loose.

My "gimmick-sense" seems to go off whenever something is revealed/spoiled to the press before comic fans actually have a chance to read it.  

The new spider-man is revealed to be black and hispanic before people get a chance to read the book?  Gimmick.
Captain America and the Human Torch's deaths are spoiled in the press before the book comes out?  Gimmick.
Batwoman is revealed to be a lesbian in the press before she "comes out" in the comics? Gimmick.

Now Reness Montaya being a lesbian was not a gimmick.  She was well known by this generation from Batman: The Animated Series, but it just was part of a really interesting story.  No need to shout it from the roof tops for non comic readers while spoiling the story for loyal readers.

But just because something is a gimmick doesn't mean it can't also be a good story.  That all depends on the quality and popularity of the book once the initial announcement has worn off.



That's fine you feel that way. I get on a certain board to express my concern with the tone of those posters and they are jumping up and down about me calling them racists when I didnt even say they were! All I was saying is that if you don't want to be called one don't SOUND like one..big difference.


I mean they asked ME if I called them that and then they get upset when I try to rationalize!!??


RANT OVER

Offline Moose100

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #84 on: August 14, 2011, 07:45:25 am »
Is that what you think they mean by "gimmick". I drop in on forums to say that the term is suspect and all hell breaks loose.

My "gimmick-sense" seems to go off whenever something is revealed/spoiled to the press before comic fans actually have a chance to read it.  

The new spider-man is revealed to be black and hispanic before people get a chance to read the book?  Gimmick.
Captain America and the Human Torch's deaths are spoiled in the press before the book comes out?  Gimmick.
Batwoman is revealed to be a lesbian in the press before she "comes out" in the comics? Gimmick.

Now Reness Montaya being a lesbian was not a gimmick.  She was well known by this generation from Batman: The Animated Series, but it just was part of a really interesting story.  No need to shout it from the roof tops for non comic readers while spoiling the story for loyal readers.

But just because something is a gimmick doesn't mean it can't also be a good story.  That all depends on the quality and popularity of the book once the initial announcement has worn off.



Secondly, most things in comics these days is kinda stunty. No one says much because it's common knowledge and we know they have the right and need to sell their products. So why is THIS such a big deal??

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #85 on: August 14, 2011, 07:50:38 am »
cap, torch and spidey will not only sell comics, but newspapers as well.

But for me, the fact that they care more about press than respecting me as a 20+ year comic reader is a major turn off.  I don't want my comics spoiled in the USA Today.  I want to read them and be surprised.  I started reading around x-men 1 but the first real event i remember was fatal attractions.  Magneto ripping Wolverine's adamantium through his pours rocked my world.  I never saw it coming and it affected me as a comic reader for months to come.  These days I would have read about that online 3 days before it happens and would have ruined the experience for me.

This is one of the aspects of the comic industry that strikes me as odd - the sense of proprietorship on the part of the customers (and no offense intended towards you Jesse, I think you articulate the expectations of many). What you describe as "gimmick" is routinely called advertising in other media. Frankly, I think the industry cares more about making money than respecting anybody. However, they suck at selling books and maybe that's not really an important component in their business model. Others have described the business shortcomings of the comic industry in depth on this forum. That said, shouldn't they be trying to create buzz in the press?
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Offline Moose100

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #86 on: August 14, 2011, 07:56:45 am »
cap, torch and spidey will not only sell comics, but newspapers as well.

But for me, the fact that they care more about press than respecting me as a 20+ year comic reader is a major turn off.  I don't want my comics spoiled in the USA Today.  I want to read them and be surprised.  I started reading around x-men 1 but the first real event i remember was fatal attractions.  Magneto ripping Wolverine's adamantium through his pours rocked my world.  I never saw it coming and it affected me as a comic reader for months to come.  These days I would have read about that online 3 days before it happens and would have ruined the experience for me.

This is one of the aspects of the comic industry that strikes me as odd - the sense of proprietorship on the part of the customers (and no offense intended towards you Jesse, I think you articulate the expectations of many). What you describe as "gimmick" is routinely called advertising in other media. Frankly, I think the industry cares more about making money than respecting anybody. However, they suck at selling books and maybe that's not really an important component in their business model. Others have described the business shortcomings of the comic industry in depth on this forum. That said, shouldn't they be trying to create buzz in the press?


Exactly what I was trying to say. This is SPIDER-MAN we're talking about!!

Offline JLI Jesse

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #87 on: August 14, 2011, 08:25:52 am »
cap, torch and spidey will not only sell comics, but newspapers as well.

But for me, the fact that they care more about press than respecting me as a 20+ year comic reader is a major turn off.  I don't want my comics spoiled in the USA Today.  I want to read them and be surprised.  I started reading around x-men 1 but the first real event i remember was fatal attractions.  Magneto ripping Wolverine's adamantium through his pours rocked my world.  I never saw it coming and it affected me as a comic reader for months to come.  These days I would have read about that online 3 days before it happens and would have ruined the experience for me.

This is one of the aspects of the comic industry that strikes me as odd - the sense of proprietorship on the part of the customers (and no offense intended towards you Jesse, I think you articulate the expectations of many). What you describe as "gimmick" is routinely called advertising in other media. Frankly, I think the industry cares more about making money than respecting anybody. However, they suck at selling books and maybe that's not really an important component in their business model. Others have described the business shortcomings of the comic industry in depth on this forum. That said, shouldn't they be trying to create buzz in the press?

Marvel doesn't owe me anything.  But they way Marvel has been acting/marketing themselves over the past few years has turned me off as a reader and I barely read any of their books these days (5-10 years ago, I bought a lot more Marvel than DC).

Curtis, you asked "shouldn't they be trying to create buzz in the press?"  I have no problem with that.  But there is a difference between telling USA Today that a member of the Fantastic Four will die and telling them specifically that the Human Torch is going to die.  There is also a difference in telling them that Spider-Man died/is being replaced and telling the world the details of the book before it is released.  If these stunts really work, the books with still be there for the general public to flock to if the story is printed on the Thursday following it's release rather than the Tuesday before.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 08:27:33 am by JLI Jesse »

Offline Moose100

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #88 on: August 14, 2011, 08:29:37 am »
I think this change in Spidey is news worthy though.

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Re: The Power Of A Black Spider-Man
« Reply #89 on: August 14, 2011, 09:02:25 am »
the problem with that jesse is that the story will be scooped by bloggers and fans so why spend money and newspaper space on something tyler from nevada already posted it.

plus will LCBS have enuff in stock if they wait until thursday?


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