Author Topic: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"  (Read 25484 times)

Offline Kristopher

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2011, 03:12:09 pm »
Yeah, I think some black folks' skin tone does change, not sure if that's on purpose or not.

Not sure either, but....



Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2011, 03:22:20 pm »
None of that looks "Sosa"-like to me. All women have their pictures photoshopped on covers anyway. 

Offline Kristopher

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2011, 05:40:09 pm »
All women have their pictures photoshopped on covers anyway. 
Of course, but very rarely are those pictures ever "darkened", complexion-wise(except O.J.). Is Black no longer Beautiful? Or is it a Latina(Magazine)/Dominican "thang"?

Offline Battle

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2011, 06:43:45 pm »
Of course, but very rarely are those pictures ever "darkened", complexion-wise(except O.J.). Is Black no longer Beautiful? Or is it a Latina(Magazine)/Dominican "thang"?




A lot of it has to do with our current technology in print and digital reproduction. It also has to do with legibility, too.
The resolution in our current technology just isn't  high enough yet to capture the billions and billions of colors in a non-white person's skin tone.  Not even in high definition television.  So, magazine editors have to 'brighten up' images in print to compensate for the inability of not being to capture those skin tones.

I'm looking at the images you posted, which supports my point.

Offline Kristopher

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2011, 04:42:25 am »
Of course, but very rarely are those pictures ever "darkened", complexion-wise(except O.J.). Is Black no longer Beautiful? Or is it a Latina(Magazine)/Dominican "thang"?





A lot of it has to do with our current technology in print and digital reproduction. It also has to do with legibility, too.
The resolution in our current technology just isn't  high enough yet to capture the billions and billions of colors in a non-white person's skin tone.  Not even in high definition television.  So, magazine editors have to 'brighten up' images in print to compensate for the inability of not being to capture those skin tones.

I'm looking at the images you posted, which supports my point.



Yes, I'm familiar with printing tech, I've been in the business 19 years now. I' ve done portraits of African Americans and I will tell you for a fact that lighting makes a HUGE difference in how darker skin renders on film. Or digital sensors. But this is a cheap, lazy Photoshop whitewash:



Any competent Photoshopper can compensate for any printer limitations without completely blowing out the image for print:


Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2011, 05:00:31 am »
I love expert testimony!  HEFfas are hot!

But aren't you making the case its editors washing her out?

Offline Battle

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2011, 05:52:01 am »
I' ve done portraits of African Americans and I will tell you for a fact that lighting makes a HUGE difference in how darker skin renders on film. Or digital sensors. But this is a cheap, lazy Photoshop whitewash:



Agreed, it is lazy and cost efficient.  It's funny, 'cause I was just thinking of that model (whose name escapes me) in the STYLE magazine example you posted... That reproduction process is very sophisticated and costly.
Not every photographer can be Ansel Adams and not every magazine wants to go overbudget.


Offline Kristopher

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2011, 06:50:01 am »
I love expert testimony!  HEFfas are hot!

But aren't you making the case its editors washing her out?

No. Honestly, how dark is she? Is she darker than any of the Brothers on the "Essence" cover? They aren't washed out, not even close. Great color correction there.

Offline Kristopher

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2011, 07:05:54 am »
I' ve done portraits of African Americans and I will tell you for a fact that lighting makes a HUGE difference in how darker skin renders on film. Or digital sensors. But this is a cheap, lazy Photoshop whitewash:



Agreed, it is lazy and cost efficient.  It's funny, 'cause I was just thinking of that model (whose name escapes me) in the STYLE magazine example you posted... That reproduction process is very sophisticated and costly.
Not every photographer can be Ansel Adams and not every magazine wants to go overbudget.


I'm not sure why it would cost more to properly color correct a dark/non white person for a digital press, old school press, hell yeah. Since I work for the Government, I HAVE to use different printers for every different job. These jobs are outsourced thru GPO(Government Printing Office). Most of our bigger jobs involve the diverse groups here at Voice of America. Out publications include every skintone on the planet. The cost is no different then if we printed materials featuring all Caucasians and Albinos. A private company has the luxury of calibrating their monitor(s) to what every press their service bureau is using. With a simple press inspection(which all professionals do/should do) I can't see where the extra cost is coming from.

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2011, 07:51:49 am »
I love expert testimony!  HEFfas are hot!

But aren't you making the case its editors washing her out?

No. Honestly, how dark is she? Is she darker than any of the Brothers on the "Essence" cover? They aren't washed out, not even close. Great color correction there.
I would say she's darker than Boris, but not darker than Blair or Lance.  But she's not publishing the magazine...the photo editors treat the pictures, not her.

Offline Battle

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2011, 09:09:37 am »
I'm not sure why it would cost more to properly color correct a dark/non white person for a digital press...



It costs time and time translates into money.

Now don't get me wrong, I agree with you that magazine covers should accurately display model color skin tones.  It constantly annoys me every month to see people of color on magazine covers whose skin tones are in such stark contrast to how they may appear in real life but I also have to consider,

"How many times a day do I see any of those models in real life?"

For all we know, the decision to 'lighten up' skin tones could perhaps be a request from the model themselves. Who knows?

Back-in-th'-day,  there were far less people of color displayed on magazine covers at all.

Offline Kristopher

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2011, 11:43:33 am »
I'm not sure why it would cost more to properly color correct a dark/non white person for a digital press...



It costs time and time translates into money.

Now don't get me wrong, I agree with you that magazine covers should accurately display model color skin tones.  It constantly annoys me every month to see people of color on magazine covers whose skin tones are in such stark contrast to how they may appear in real life but I also have to consider,

"How many times a day do I see any of those models in real life?"

For all we know, the decision to 'lighten up' skin tones could perhaps be a request from the model themselves. Who knows?

Back-in-th'-day,  there were far less people of color displayed on magazine covers at all.

Come on, Bro. Battle. Color correction and making photos print ready isn't that laborious, just boring as hell. There's even software now that let amateurs like my wife do photo editing for high end output.

Offline Battle

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2011, 03:19:02 pm »
Come on, Bro. Battle. Color correction and making photos print ready isn't that laborious, just boring as hell. There's even software now that let amateurs like my wife do photo editing for high end output.



O.K. ...


What do you think the answer is?   Why do you think American magazines 'brighten up' the hues in Black models' skin tones on thier covers?
I'm jus' askin'...
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 11:31:07 pm by Battle »

Offline Kristopher

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2011, 05:11:41 am »
Come on, Bro. Battle. Color correction and making photos print ready isn't that laborious, just boring as hell. There's even software now that let amateurs like my wife do photo editing for high end output.



O.K. ...


What do you think the answer is?   Why do you think American magazines 'brighten up' the hues in Black models' skin tones on thier covers?
I'm jus' askin'...

Off the top of my head.....Colorism. If you light, you alright.
Also the big lie that's been perpetrated for years it that Black women don't sell (mainstream) magazines, especially darker skin sistas. That's Bulls#%t!

Look at the "Essence" cover again. How come they got it(the tones) right? Remember, Reginald wrote that Zoe is DARKER than Boris. You'd never know it from Latina's cover shots. BTW, their photos doesn't do her justice, I really wish I could get my hands on the original files so I could do it right.

Offline Battle

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Re: Zoe Saldana in "Colombiana"
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2011, 06:00:15 am »
Off the top of my head.....Colorism. If you light, you alright.



Oh...

You must be talkin' about WSP, otherwise known as 'white skin priviledge'.    Yeah, I've heard about this and there is some compelling evidence that supports this phenomena.



Quote
Look at the "Essence" cover again. How come they got it(the tones) right? Remember, Reginald wrote that Zoe is DARKER than Boris. You'd never know it from Latina's cover shots. BTW, their photos doesn't do her justice, I really wish I could get my hands on the original files so I could do it right.




I understand your concern but the effort would be futile considering that unless you have access to the photographer's original negatives (do photographers still use single lens reflex cameras that yield celluloid negatives, anymore?) and/or prints, adjusting the model's skin tones would be subjective.  In other words, there are too many other factors that determine the outcome of photographer's shoot such as lighting, the development process or even the F-stop settings in the camera itself.

Regarding the mainstream, when it comes to accurate tonality changes on magazine covers, we're going to have to allow the market to decide what sells and what doesn't.