Author Topic: Tavis is whining again  (Read 3822 times)

Offline Magic Wand

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Tavis is whining again
« on: August 12, 2011, 05:58:40 am »
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." --Aristotle, Greek philosopher

Доверяй, но проверяй

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Tavis is whining again
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2011, 07:56:56 am »
Steve Harvey calls him out

That was more than a call out...that was a natural ass whippin'!

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Tavis is whining again
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2011, 08:08:27 am »
Quote
....The Original King of Comedy, Family Feud host and suit designer didn't stop there. After reading Smiley's request that Obama join him for "a roundtable for two or three days on poverty," Harvey joked, "Who in the hell got 2-3 days for your ass? I ain't got time to sit down with your monkey behind for two, three days, let alone the President of the United States. We got three wars going on, the economy crashing and we going to sit down with Tavis ass for three days?"

That's just wrong, man.  ;D

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Tavis is whining again
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2011, 01:48:06 pm »
Though I think Steve had some good fun jabbing at Tavis, some of it I agree with, I think its sad that political discourse in the black community has become the equivalent of a national stop snitching campaign where the Obama administration is concerned.

We should question Tavis's motives, but we should also question Steve's. And Harvey is wrong that Smiley and West's issues amount to nothing. Dr. West accused President Obama of being beholden to Wall Street instead of the people. That's more than nothing. I think that charge is worthy of debate. But people like Harvey, Tom Joyner, and Al Sharpton want to shut down debate whenever Obama's name comes up.

Sure poverty existed, long before many people have talked about it, does that mean that Mother Theresa and Martin Luther King, etc. shouldn't have talked about it either? I think Steve is ignoring that Dr. West at least was critical of the Bush administration. He just didn't start making criticisms on Obama's watch. And if he did, so what? The last Democratic presidential contender to say the word poverty was John Edwards from what I recall. For the supposed party of the working class and poor, words like poverty and the working poor are strangely absent from their vocabulary, and that tells me that the poor are not a priority of the Obama administration or the national Democratic party.

Both men should be called out on their ego tripping, but I have no real desire to defend the President or am so desperate to have him keep his job when he has time for rural Iowa or Martha's Vineyard but not for inner city Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, etc.

Offline Marvelous

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Re: Tavis is whining again
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2011, 02:09:27 pm »
Did y'all read it in your best Steve Harvey voice like I did?   :D


"2. IF YOU DON'T READ THE BOOK BUT ARE WILLING TO ARGUE ABOUT IT EITHER YOU ARE:
a) An idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
b) A liar who is a fan who can't admit it to himself or others."

Offline Battle

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Re: Tavis is whining again
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2011, 02:22:20 pm »
Did y'all read it in your best Steve Harvey voice like I did?   :D




Ha Ha Ha HAAA!!!

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: Tavis is whining again
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2011, 11:12:10 am »
Though I think Steve had some good fun jabbing at Tavis, some of it I agree with, I think its sad that political discourse in the black community has become the equivalent of a national stop snitching campaign where the Obama administration is concerned.
Good line. I'll be biting borrowing that one.  :)

We should question Tavis's motives, but we should also question Steve's. And Harvey is wrong that Smiley and West's issues amount to nothing. Dr. West accused President Obama of being beholden to Wall Street instead of the people. That's more than nothing. I think that charge is worthy of debate. But people like Harvey, Tom Joyner, and Al Sharpton want to shut down debate whenever Obama's name comes up.
I agree that folks are worried. I think we're all a little bit (or a lot) scared that the President won't be reelected. When you consider the alternatives, we should be.

Sure poverty existed, long before many people have talked about it, does that mean that Mother Theresa and Martin Luther King, etc. shouldn't have talked about it either? I think Steve is ignoring that Dr. West at least was critical of the Bush administration. He just didn't start making criticisms on Obama's watch. And if he did, so what? The last Democratic presidential contender to say the word poverty was John Edwards from what I recall. For the supposed party of the working class and poor, words like poverty and the working poor are strangely absent from their vocabulary, and that tells me that the poor are not a priority of the Obama administration or the national Democratic party.

Both men should be called out on their ego tripping, but I have no real desire to defend the President or am so desperate to have him keep his job when he has time for rural Iowa or Martha's Vineyard but not for inner city Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, etc.
While I think that both Dr. West and Mr. Smiley make good points, I would say that neither of them seem invested in making an actual difference. Criticism is easy. Politicians don't lead. They figure out how to get in power and stay there. The way to effect change is to build a movement. Politicians are adept at figuring out which way the crowd is moving and trying to get in front of it. Witness the Tea Party. Or bring a big bag of money.
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Tavis is whining again
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2011, 05:40:30 am »
I'm inudated with the same Democratic/Civil Rights propaganda and there is a knee jerk part of me that is scared that President Obama won't be re-elected. That he is all that stands between us and the Dark Ages. However, I have to step back from that carefully implanted fear and ask myself, is that really true?

To be honest, there hasn't been a lot of difference between Bush and Obama. And do I really want to see four more years of Obama 'caving in' or colluding with the GOP, or pleading that he can't do anything to stop them, and we must 'share' sacrifice (while the GOP and the rich get mostly what they want)? So as it stands right now, I don't care. We're screwed with Obama or without him. Under the new "Soul Brother No. 1" blacks are in a Great Depression, and Obama went from FDR to Herbert Hoover on the issues of black joblessness and poverty. Heck, he's really no FDR when it comes to white joblessness either.

I too question West and Smiley. I don't think they are invested in really figuring out how to ameliorate poverty in this country. Then again, I have to wonder if they feel that their purpose is to highlight the issue and leave it up to others to figure out what to do. I think there is a lot of that going on in our society today. Just the highlighting of issues instead of coming up with solutions. (Heck I do it all the time myself, probably a lot on this forum). But at the same time, even though the motives are sketchy, should we ignore what they are talking about? Or is it possible to divorce the motives from the larger issues? Or maybe they feel that the solution are the typical liberal social programs and they want to get people back to thinking about them in a positive way.

You talk about building a movement, I don't disagree, but that takes time. Heck, it took some fifty-sixty years from the start of the Niagara Movement to the modern Civil Rights movement. Perhaps West and Smiley think they are seeding the ground for something similar.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 05:42:51 am by Emperorjones »

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Tavis is whining again
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2011, 06:51:50 am »
I don't think it would take long to start a new movement at all.  First of all, there are all these existing organizations - churches, temples and mosques, many of whom are already politicized;  there are any number of politicial and social organizations, many of which got the president elected in the first place; and all the social media that makes it easier to reach large masses of people than ever before.

If you have charisma, a feasible plan and marketing skills, you can kick off a movement in no time.

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: Tavis is whining again
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2011, 07:29:10 am »
@EJ:
If you think that there has been little difference between Bush and Obama, I respectfully disagree. I understand that some folks are disappointed with both and that some policies have been continued from the prior administration but that's as far as it goes for me.

I think we agree about Dr. West and Mr. Smiley. I wasn't really criticizing them, just observing that they seem focused solely on analysis and criticism. While accurate analysis of the situation is necessary, it is far from sufficient. Frankly, I don't believe that analysis is on the critical path. Politics requires participation. As I said, politicians don't lead; they sniff out crowds to get in front of.

I agree with Reginald on what it takes to start a movement. Again, look at the Tea Party.
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Tavis is whining again
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2011, 07:11:54 pm »
I don't think it would take long to start a new movement at all.  First of all, there are all these existing organizations - churches, temples and mosques, many of whom are already politicized;  there are any number of politicial and social organizations, many of which got the president elected in the first place; and all the social media that makes it easier to reach large masses of people than ever before.

If you have charisma, a feasible plan and marketing skills, you can kick off a movement in no time.

But can you sustain it? I think the Tea Party works because it has powerful and rich conservative backers, sometimes behind the scene and sometimes out front. I think a progressive movement is already at a disadvantage because it will not have that kind of support or framework. The rightwing has been building up a support network for at least 40 years and it has repeatedly bore fruit for them, definitely after Reagan was elected. The Reagan election shifted the country politically to a right axis, so now even some liberals, or so-called liberals, 'concede' that the country is center-right. I'm not so sure it is, but if the liberals are now afraid to call themselves liberal and when the Democrats decide to play in the GOP sandbox, it certainly gives it more of a ring of authencity. And the GOP has steadily pushed the middle rightward and the Tea Party is doing that in overdrive.

A progressive movement is going to have to contend with disparate groups (conservatives are more racially and culturally homogenous, if not financially so), and fight against rich opponents and the media, even the so-called liberal media, who will be apt to call them kooks or angry and dismiss them. They will also have to fight against the Democratic Party and the perception that it is the best vehicle to enact a progressive agenda. That hasn't been the case for decades now.  
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 07:13:45 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Tavis is whining again
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2011, 07:29:50 pm »
There's a giant statue of MLK being unveiled this weekend to remind us just how possible this is.  He had less resources and a more dangerous enemy than we face, and he succeeded. 

If you build a populist movement with real organization and MORAL INTEGRITY you will be taken very seriously by opponents and there will be plenty of money showing up from backers all over the world.  And eventually that perfect spokesperson will emerge.  The Civil Rights movement begat Martin;  the Nation of Islam begat Malcolm. 

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Tavis is whining again
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2011, 07:11:52 am »
Talk about jobs and factories and nothing else and folks will listen.

I often think that what Progressives need most is thier own Joe The Plumber figurehead dude.

Some bald headed middle of the road looking White guy to stand in front of the camera and yell about jobs and factories. 

Poor and middle class Whites will cheerfuly agitate to torpedo any initative that they think will help anybody but themselves. So get one of thier own to explain it to them in little words.

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: Tavis is whining again
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2011, 12:23:15 pm »
I think Vic has the right idea about the roots of a populist movement but it has to be updated. We still have plenty of factories (or at least manufacturing) in the US, just many fewer jobs in them as automation has come of age.

So where are the decent 21st century jobs for the masses? I really don't know.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 12:25:28 pm by Curtis Metcalf »
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline Catch22

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Re: Tavis is whining again
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2011, 01:31:34 pm »
I think Vic has the right idea about the roots of a populist movement but it has to be updated. We still have plenty of factories (or at least manufacturing) in the US, just many fewer jobs in them as automation has come of age.

So where are the decent 21st century jobs for the masses? I really don't know.


They're in China...just look at the back of your iPad.

Really, though...we have to look to the future, education is the key to everything.  No longer can we get a HS diploma and say..."that's good enough".  We can't get a college degree and say "He's made it, now!"  We have to go above and beyond, not just in the aspects of doing the job, but educating ourselves to do the job.  I'm in IT, it's constantly changing, I've studied, got certs, put in the work and even during these rough times, I'm making more money now than I ever have, but I'm not satisfied.  It's on to the next thing.  We have to be willing to take steps outside of our comfort zones to do what we need to do for our families and to better ourselves.  We have to get younger people out of that hive-mind mentality that masks itself in "individuality".  You're not an individual getting tattoos up and down your body, sagging your pants and getting Mohawk haircuts.  We have to be real and we have to do what generations of white people have done through the ages, we have to use whatever connections we have (friends, family, enemies, etc.) to get ourselves ahead and not worry about what other people think, but at the same time there has to be an end to the sense of entitlement that some kids have, thinking they're too good for certain jobs.  I've been a janitor, a construction worker, and done LOADS of other menial labor, a lot of kids these days think that work is beneath them.  There are roadblocks everywhere, but sometimes if you can't go around it, you have to do your damnedest to go through it, nothing will be given to anyone, especially in this new global economy.   Where are the new jobs?  They're out there in the world.  America's just gotten so bogged down in the ideological soup of right vs. left, that the rest of the world is passing us by.  While we're arguing about which side is right and which direction we should be going in, other countries are taking the lead and all the good jobs right from under our noses.  We need to wake up as a country and stop voting for against our best interests because the person has an R or D next to their name.