Author Topic: "forced" or race in comics.  (Read 19408 times)

Offline bluezulu

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"forced" or race in comics.
« on: July 31, 2006, 10:35:04 am »
ok. since this topic is all over the internet when it comes to civil war, the black panther and storms marriage and reggie as a writer, i have decided to just jump it off and get a discussion started here since we have been "dancing" around the issue and everyone else is talking about it. my thoughts:

when i hear the term "forced" by internet posters when it comes to this marriage, what i hear is "forced" to have to deal with the thought of black love, black sexuality and forced to confront what one believes about black people. yes and i did not stutter. i for the life of me can't understand how a person could have a problem with this marriage from an editoral, economic, creative or social/political point of view. the e-chatter of this marriage is forced on us or it's because they are black confuses me. question are more black people marriad to black people or are they in mixed marriages? so in the comic world where we are disprapotianatly portraid already how is it such a mystery that...gasp two black people marry each other. im not going to call people racist who are opposed to this marriage but i will say that based on the arguments that i have seen i think that the individuals have A PROBLEM with one of the issues mentioned above black love, black sexuality or are uncomfortable in being made even remotly to deal with their thoughts on race. granted if i could have my choice i would prefer to not have politics with my comics, i do read them in order to be entertained however i am not opposed to being challenged or to have my thoughts on a political social issue put to me in a non traditional way ie. comics.

what's up with the people who think that just because superheroes are "vigilanties" that blacks would automaticly be pro reg because we equate the kkk with vigilanties? maybe im wrong but when i think of the kkk i vision racist rednecks who because of a economic greed and an ignorent fear (add seld hate) terrorize blacks or people of color. some blacks have a general opinion that the government can only be trusted to be what it is so more or less they will be pro or anti as much as it effects them and their community. what is registration has changes from what it was initially. i can't offer a concensus of what blacks would think. yea we vote majority democrat and our views swing usually to the left but you to equate registration with political identification is missing the point. i think cage's decision on registration is what he feels is best for him given his situation much like bishops or bill foter is. let's expand the argument and not rely on racial sterotypes.

on folks who have a problem with this book based on reggie's supposed "racial" attitudes. i don't know where to begin here. this is probably one of the more unfortunate things i have seen come out of my two plus years experiance with this board. reg never once called someone racist, put someones race into discussion or used his book or his board to "push" a racial agenda. first the whole reggie is a racist thing started when 3 posters from the black panther message board brought up a point about his portrayel of tchalla and regs reply was simply "this character is apparently too strong for some people" how in the hell do you get race from that? ofcourse you can infer, hell you can infer anything. the point is he did not bring race into the discussion others then. on a side note i continue to be dissapointed that the 3 posters involved in the discussion one has admitted that "it wasnt even like that" here on this site but as it comes up else where stays mum on the subject and continues to spit afoul of reg's work even when reg continue to entertain his obvious "baiting" even as recently as today. reg is racial and deals with the issues of class (the katrina issue) and once again as opposed to being applauded for it he get's bashed for it.

the hudlin community has largly been dismissed on other message boards as being his zealots or dinkers of the kool aid. i swear if i ever ran into some of these guys, well anyway i am far from someone who needs an al sharpton or jessie jackson. i have my own thoughts. i am simply enjoy a character and enjoy the medium in which he is currently being presented.

Offline Toya

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Re: "forced" or race in comics.
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2006, 10:52:49 am »
ok. since this topic is all over the internet when it comes to civil war, the black panther and storms marriage and reggie as a writer, i have decided to just jump it off and get a discussion started here since we have been "dancing" around the issue and everyone else is talking about it. my thoughts:

when i hear the term "forced" by internet posters when it comes to this marriage, what i hear is "forced" to have to deal with the thought of black love, black sexuality and forced to confront what one believes about black people. yes and i did not stutter. i for the life of me can't understand how a person could have a problem with this marriage from an editoral, economic, creative or social/political point of view. the e-chatter of this marriage is forced on us or it's because they are black confuses me. question are more black people marriad to black people or are they in mixed marriages? so in the comic world where we are disprapotianatly portraid already how is it such a mystery that...gasp two black people marry each other. im not going to call people racist who are opposed to this marriage but i will say that based on the arguments that i have seen i think that the individuals have A PROBLEM with one of the issues mentioned above black love, black sexuality or are uncomfortable in being made even remotly to deal with their thoughts on race. granted if i could have my choice i would prefer to not have politics with my comics, i do read them in order to be entertained however i am not opposed to being challenged or to have my thoughts on a political social issue put to me in a non traditional way ie. comics.

I believe it has more to do that they think that the time period from love to engagemnt to marriage was too short for their taste. I've also read that some posters feel that Marvel is only marrying them because their black not because of "serious" romantic history.

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what's up with the people who think that just because superheroes are "vigilanties" that blacks would automaticly be pro reg because we equate the kkk with vigilanties? maybe im wrong but when i think of the kkk i vision racist rednecks who because of a economic greed and an ignorent fear (add seld hate) terrorize blacks or people of color. some blacks have a general opinion that the government can only be trusted to be what it is so more or less they will be pro or anti as much as it effects them and their community. what is registration has changes from what it was initially. i can't offer a concensus of what blacks would think. yea we vote majority democrat and our views swing usually to the left but you to equate registration with political identification is missing the point. i think cage's decision on registration is what he feels is best for him given his situation much like bishops or bill foter is. let's expand the argument and not rely on racial sterotypes.

Fer real.

Quote
on folks who have a problem with this book based on reggie's supposed "racial" attitudes. i don't know where to begin here. this is probably one of the more unfortunate things i have seen come out of my two plus years experiance with this board. reg never once called someone racist, put someones race into discussion or used his book or his board to "push" a racial agenda. first the whole reggie is a racist thing started when 3 posters from the black panther message board brought up a point about his portrayel of tchalla and regs reply was simply "this character is apparently too strong for some people" how in the hell do you get race from that? ofcourse you can infer, hell you can infer anything. the point is he did not bring race into the discussion others then. on a side note i continue to be dissapointed that the 3 posters involved in the discussion one has admitted that "it wasnt even like that" here on this site but as it comes up else where stays mum on the subject and continues to spit afoul of reg's work even when reg continue to entertain his obvious "baiting" even as recently as today. reg is racial and deals with the issues of class (the katrina issue) and once again as opposed to being applauded for it he get's bashed for it.

Its even more silly when "insulted"  ::) peoples run crying to their havens about how they were racially harassed. Ugh, I saw a poster said that Reggie(though some call him Richard and wants me to believe they read the book,go figure) is writing Wakandans like and I quote "Black/Ghetto Americans". Meh.


Quote
the hudlin community has largly been dismissed on other message boards as being his zealots or dinkers of the kool aid. i swear if i ever ran into some of these guys, well anyway i am far from someone who needs an al sharpton or jessie jackson. i have my own thoughts. i am simply enjoy a character and enjoy the medium in which he is currently being presented.

It is code that a supporter is automatically a trouble maker. No matter how they present their ideas. I remember Jenn telling me to avoid Comixfan but I didn't listen. Overall its not bad but there is definitely a "here comes trouble" view of me. Who cares about internet wankstas who make discussing a hobby a moral crime.
...Rassclaat.

Offline KamiKaZee

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Re: "forced" or race in comics.
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2006, 11:14:24 am »
Reginald Hudlin is a historical figure.  But no one knows it because we're all dealing in the here
and now.  Time will judge him and I promise you that the impact that he will have made shall
be beyond measure.  He is a Black man, but more importantly, he is a real man.  He already
said that he took on the BP project knowing that he wouldn't derive much financial benefit in
doing so.  How many people can you think of that would go to work on a project knowing that
they are going to lose money?   But did so anyway for the good of the cause?  The cause being
giving Black people, young and old, their very own positive SUPER HERO - among other things -
even at his own expense since he could be engaged in something much more profitable. And
now he's getting bashed for it?  Yes, he has taken on projects in an effort to uplift Black people,
but he has also worked on other (white people's) projects as well.  If anybody wants my honest
opinion - Reggie Hudlin is not a racist - he is RACE-LESS.  And it's too bad nobody gets it.
If All You Do Is What You've Done, Then All You'll Get Is What You've Got.

Offline sinjection

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Re: "forced" or race in comics.
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2006, 11:18:51 am »
Reginald Hudlin is a historical figure.  But no one knows it because we're all dealing in the here
and now.  Time will judge him and I promise you that the impact that he will have made shall
be beyond measure.  He is a Black man, but more importantly, he is a real man.  He already
said that he took on the BP project knowing that he wouldn't derive much financial benefit in
doing so.  How many people can you think of that would go to work on a project knowing that
they are going to lose money?   But did so anyway for the good of the cause?  The cause being
giving Black people, young and old, their very own positive SUPER HERO - among other things -
even at his own expense since he could be engaged in something much more profitable. And
now he's getting bashed for it?  Yes, he has taken on projects in an effort to uplift Black people,
but he has also worked on other (white people's) projects as well.  If anybody wants my honest
opinion - Reggie Hudlin is not a racist - he is RACE-LESS.  And it's too bad nobody gets it.

Outstanding commentary KamiKaZee.
Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther

Offline bluezulu

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Re: "forced" or race in comics.
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2006, 12:37:12 pm »
agreed. and since when has it become the new crime to be proud of your race, culture or religion and be scourned for it? i love being black it does not mean that i don't love white people as well. hell some of my best friends are............. i kid i kid :D.

Offline Francisco

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Re: "forced" or race in comics.
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2006, 01:31:54 pm »
agreed. and since when has it become the new crime to be proud of your race, culture or religion and be scourned for it? i love being black it does not mean that i don't love white people as well. hell some of my best friends are............. i kid i kid :D.

one of the things that piss me off with white racists is that They use the excuse of black people been proud of being black to say that it is unfair for them not to be able to state that they are proud of being white or whatever. Come on! One thing is to be proud of your ethnicity and other much different is to claim that yours is superior and the rest ought to die or be segregated so they can not pollute you sacred whiteness.

I’m proud of my ancestry, I’m proud to be a black man but it won’t stop me from having contact with people with different backgrounds and treating them with respect..
Don't get fooled by the bombs that I get I'm still I'm still Saddam from Iraq.

Offline bluezulu

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Re: "forced" or race in comics.
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2006, 01:50:19 pm »
agreed. and since when has it become the new crime to be proud of your race, culture or religion and be scourned for it? i love being black it does not mean that i don't love white people as well. hell some of my best friends are............. i kid i kid :D.

one of the things that piss me off with white racists is that They use the excuse of black people been proud of being black to say that it is unfair for them not to be able to state that they are proud of being white or whatever. Come on! One thing is to be proud of your ethnicity and other much different is to claim that yours is superior and the rest ought to die or be segregated so they can not pollute you sacred whiteness.

I’m proud of my ancestry, I’m proud to be a black man but it won’t stop me from having contact with people with different backgrounds and treating them with respect..

-----------------------
preach brother preach ;) when someone want's the world to be all the same with no diffrences and were all just mixed in a pot of one i get mad suspect because thats not  loving the other man thats hating yourself. im cool and everyone else is cool we can be in this thing together. why i have to cease so that you can exist?

Offline stanleyballard

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Re: "forced" or race in comics.
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2006, 01:54:11 pm »
agreed....believe that Hudlin does BP for the love of the character and the fact that Blacks do need a hero in some form of literature....it is not prevalent...there is too much negativity out there...way too much...do not believe he makes any money off of this title compared to the hours he puts into it....it is creative at best.

if whites are not racist then why do we still have the white house filled with only white male presidents (and they reside in a place built by slaves)

Offline bluezulu

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Re: "forced" or race in comics.
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2006, 01:56:22 pm »
how come a brother can't be on any money. 8) susan b got a coin we cant get any scrilla either?

Offline stanleyballard

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Re: "forced" or race in comics.
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2006, 01:59:49 pm »
because the masses of people who should be interested are not....they are a sleeping giant at best.  Hudlin makes money off his other ventures.  If he made money here his numbers would have to match or exceed Whedon's Astonishing XMen or more appropriately Claremont/Lee's XMen which reportedly sold 1 million copies back around 1991 or so.

Offline bluezulu

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Re: "forced" or race in comics.
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2006, 02:06:01 pm »
no one will ever sell 1 million copys of a comic anymoe. i was out of the game back during the revolution but i have never had it explained to me exactly why comics were so popular then. was it simply the collection boom of the period. ahh i see then ebay and counterfiting and because of availability it went down?

Offline stanleyballard

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Re: "forced" or race in comics.
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2006, 02:12:00 pm »
was out of the game then too found out that Marvel started using marketing ploys around that time and one of them involved changing covers to comics and people saw 4 different covers of XMen # 1 (Claremont/Lee) and bought it in the excess of 1 million copies.  Made Jim Lee a big star and millionaire...sure Claremont is not broke either.

Offline colin solan

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Re: "forced" or race in comics.
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2006, 02:38:30 pm »
what's up with the people who think that just because superheroes are "vigilanties" that blacks would automaticly be pro reg because we equate the kkk with vigilanties? maybe im wrong but when i think of the kkk i vision racist rednecks who because of a economic greed and an ignorent fear (add seld hate) terrorize blacks or people of color. some blacks have a general opinion that the government can only be trusted to be what it is so more or less they will be pro or anti as much as it effects them and their community. what is registration has changes from what it was initially. i can't offer a concensus of what blacks would think. yea we vote majority democrat and our views swing usually to the left but you to equate registration with political identification is missing the point. i think cage's decision on registration is what he feels is best for him given his situation much like bishops or bill foter is. let's expand the argument and not rely on racial sterotypes.

Just to clarify, the Ku Klux Klan is a terrorist organization. Their continued existance shows what the "War on Terror" is really about...

Offline bluezulu

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Re: "forced" or race in comics.
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2006, 03:27:51 pm »
is that how they are officially listed by the fbi and the federal government? if so home grown terrorist huh? go figure. i will buy terrorist over vigilante anyway. who besides klansmen would say that what they do is justice? what hopsitals do they build, what charity events do they give to? hell i know somefolks choose to give annonymously but is that what the hoods are for? ::)

Offline colin solan

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Re: "forced" or race in comics.
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2006, 04:17:29 pm »
I don't think they are which is my point. You never hear the word "terrorist" applied to anyone besides Islamic fundamentalists. Bush made a big speech after 9/11 about how any country that harbors or supports terrorists will be considered an enemy of America but you never saw FBI agents rousting the Irish pubs in Boston or New York where they routinely pass the hats for the lads in the Troubles back home. And the Klan is clearly even more deviant than the IRA. They don't even have the pretense of calling themselves "freedom fighters" to hide behind.