Author Topic: George Lucas: 'Red Tails'  (Read 5131 times)

Offline Marvelous

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2012, 11:08:25 AM »
what's wrong here, I don't wanna say because everyone Ive asked about the movie is non black and hope that is not the case.  Are the views of the hef'fas here bias or what?

Perhaps, you should ask if it is the other way around.

Werd B.  The answers they give are kinda meh.  Will post what they say when I see them on Sunday.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 09:58:49 PM by Marvelous »


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Offline Battle

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #61 on: January 29, 2012, 04:32:29 PM »
Check out the commentary on the movie "Red Tails" between these two guys:

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag/red-tails/

Notice that in-between the beer swills, the guy's ears on the right became more red everytime he spoke? ;D
...and everything he said ended in a question...?  ...as if he wasn't sure what he was saying...? ;D


...and count how many times both of them use the word 'like'. ;)

...'like'?  ...'like'?   ....y'know... ;D
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 04:40:40 PM by Battle »

Offline BPStorm4ever

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2012, 01:05:22 AM »
Check out the commentary on the movie "Red Tails" between these two guys:

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag/red-tails/



I feel dumber for having watched that. The only comedy to be had is that they're trying to come off as if they actually know what they're talking about.

Also whats up with this bizarre mentality that since an HBO movie was done almost two decades ago no one should ever try again?  ??? These two intellectual giants brought that up as if they should have stopped there.
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Offline Battle

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2012, 03:30:59 AM »
I feel dumber for having watched that. The only comedy to be had is that they're trying to come off as if they actually know what they're talking about.

Also whats up with this bizarre mentality that since an HBO movie was done almost two decades ago no one should ever try again?  ??? These two intellectual giants brought that up as if they should have stopped there.



Agreed.
I think this is why current movies look and play out the way they do in comparison to something like "Red Tails".
When you cater to an audience that continually indulges itself on a routinely  mean-spirited basis, of course, "Red Tails" is not going to appeal to them. I've read one review of "Red Tails" online that asked two important questions that I am sure that the two 'reviewers' in that link didn't even consider coming from so-called 'one dimensional' characters:


1. When was the last time you saw a movie where the characters actually prayed to God for safety?


2. When was the last time you saw a movie that was glorifyingly patriotic?

Offline michaelintp

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2012, 06:37:17 AM »
At the Air Force base in L.A., on the opening weekend, free-popcorn movie theater coupons were given out to encourage folks to see the movie. I imagine that was done elsewhere as well. That says something about the Air Force's view of the movie.
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Offline Kristopher

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #65 on: January 30, 2012, 07:25:17 AM »
I feel dumber for having watched that. The only comedy to be had is that they're trying to come off as if they actually know what they're talking about.

Also whats up with this bizarre mentality that since an HBO movie was done almost two decades ago no one should ever try again?  ??? These two intellectual giants brought that up as if they should have stopped there.




Agreed.
I think this is why current movies look and play out the way they do in comparison to something like "Red Tails".
When you cater to an audience that continually indulges itself on a routinely  mean-spirited basis, of course, "Red Tails" is not going to appeal to them. I've read one review of "Red Tails" online that asked two important questions that I am sure that the two 'reviewers' in that link didn't even consider coming from so-called 'one dimensional' characters:


1. When was the last time you saw a movie where the characters actually prayed to God for safety?


2. When was the last time you saw a movie that was glorifyingly patriotic?


Have you read Courtland Milloy's "review"?

‘Red Tails’ a disservice to Tuskegee Airmen
By Courtland Milloy, Published: January 29

The movie “Red Tails” could not possibly have been “inspired by” the Tuskegee Airmen, as billed, for it is little more than a black comedy about guys who clown and connive their way through World War II, supposedly as combat pilots.

Disheveled, undisciplined, crude and uncouth, they are the exact opposite of the real men who served in the all-black fighter group in the 1940s.

In this movie — which has raked in millions of dollars at the box office and even got a thumbs up from President Obama — the squad leader finds courage in a bottle of booze while his wingman’s lust for an Italian woman leads to insubordination. During dogfights with the German Luftwaffe, the black pilots behave like kids in a video arcade.

“Stop fooling around,” the booze-head captain tells his womanizing lieutenant, who has disobeyed orders to engage a more experienced enemy.

“I’m just playing with him,” the lieutenant replies.

This is not just a bad film; it is ridiculous. It caricatures the black airmen with the very stereotypes they fought so hard to dispel in real life.

“I wanted to make it inspirational for [African American] teenage boys,” producer George Lucas said in an interview with John Stewart on “The Daily Show.” “I wanted to show that they have heroes that are real American heroes that are patriots that helped make this country what it is today.”

So he turns the story of the famed Tuskegee Airmen into the first-ever happy-go-lucky hip-hop war movie.

The cast includes several actors from the HBO TV series “The Wire,” two of whom played street-corner killers and one who was a heroin addict. One combat pilot talks like Bubba, the black country bumpkin in the movie “Forrest Gump,” while another sounds like a jive-talking Chris Tucker, the squealing comic who co-starred with Jackie Chan in the series of “Rush Hour” action comedies.

“If somebody asks me something about the war,” a black airman says, “I’m going to make something up.”

A real laugh riot, this movie.

In reality, the Tuskegee Airmen placed a premium on discipline, precision, order and military bearing. After all, they were under the command of Benjamin O. Davis Jr., a black man from the District, whose rank as an Air Force general and whose education — 35th out of 276 at West Point, class of 1936 — was awe inspiring.

Davis stood 6-foot-4 and weighed in at a trim 200 pounds. Terrence Howard, who sang “It’s Hard Out Here for a Pimp” in the movie “Hustle and Flow,” hardly fills those shoes.

“The men knew that their all-black fighter group was an experiment that many people wanted to see fail,” J. Byron Morris, past president of the East Coast chapter of the Tuskegee Airmen, told me. “They wanted us to self-destruct. But B.O. Davis kept them on the straight and narrow, and the men were too self-respecting to fall apart.”

During a recent screening of the movie sponsored by the National Association of Black Journalists, I sat with Morris and several other Tuskegee Airmen. The men were pleased that the history of the black pilots, gunners and mechanics was getting so much attention, and they were grateful to Lucas for using $93 million of his own money to help bankroll the film.

Nevertheless, they saw little of themselves on the screen. Davis would not have tolerated the fist fights, aerial stunts, drunkenness and insubordination. For my money, Lucas could have depicted the pilots as they were — as distinctive as the squad led by Tom Hanks in Steven Spielberg’s “Saving Private Ryan,” or the group of soldiers in the television series “Band of Brothers” and “The Pacific.”

He could have at least made them appear credible as pilots.

The question that loomed largest over the 332nd Fighter Group was whether they were intelligent enough to fly. The doubts, deeply rooted in racism, persist to this day. Of 14,130 Air Force pilots in 2009, just 270 identified themselves as black — fewer than 2 percent — according to the Air Force Personnel Center.

So it was particularly egregious to have those black pilots clowning in the cockpit, engaged in dogfights that weren’t just fiction but science fiction. Rather than showing how the black pilots actually fared in combat, the film shows them magically flying propeller-driven planes fast enough to catch German jets that were 100 miles per hour faster.

They could turn on a dime, too, as if piloting Han Solo’s Millennium Falcon at warp speed in one of Lucas’s “Star Wars” episodes.

Unbelievable.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/red-tails-a-disservice-to-tuskegee-airmen/2012/01/29/gIQAEkHwaQ_story.html


One of the comments to the "Review":
JRWII
9:29 AM EST
Mr. Milloy, 
I just viewed Red Tails before I came home and stumbled across your article, which after reading it all I can say in response is "unbelievable."
 
First, you go after every topical criticism you can find. You attack "Easy" Martin (Nate Parker's character) for his drinking, and Joe "Lightening" Little for his "womanizing" as you call it. Then, you criticize the personality that the young men display in the air and on the ground, while complaining about their appearance ("Disheveled?" Really?) You take issue with the inter-racial relationship, as though these types of relationships didn't exist during the war (they did, and they do today). And, as if we’re supposed to believe you don’t completely despise the film, you go on to say it’s not a bad film.
 
Let’s be honest, you write as if you didn't even "see" the film. You may have watched it, but clearly you didn’t “see” it. You probably misunderstood HBO’s “The Tuskegee Airmen” (1995) and Spike Lee’s “Miracle at St. Anna’s” because those movies starred human beings too. Did you ever see the film “Glory?” Did you understand that each of these movies involved brave, intelligent men, who themselves had needs, fears, and personal flaws? 
 
You leave absolutely no room for human beings to exist in this film. You’re right, the real Tuskegee Airman were heroes. They were the best of the best (Morehouse Men in combat as I’d put it). Guess what else? They were human! They were not the robotic soldiers for which you seem to pine. Trust me, I know. My grandfather fought in this war, and while he was no “disheveled, undisciplined… uncouth” soldier, he was human. 
 
You spent no time discussing anything redeeming about the film. You failed to mention that the “drunk” was a 4.0 college graduate from an educated family, who was coping with the pressure but still sharp enough to do his job at the highest level. You also failed to mention that your “womanizer” was a young man, who ended up pursuing marriage not just some Italian booty! He was also the best fighter pilot of the lot, and demonstrated his skill and courage enough to die for it. What’s wrong, were those traits too human for you? 
 
Your criticisms are topical and laughable. That you even spent time criticizing the previous roles of these actors tells me that you found your axe and decided to grind it. As if it is a bad thing for actors to play hustlers in one movie, then get roles as arguably the best soldiers in history? These actors (not just Terrence Howard and Cuba Gooding Jr.) are accomplished and have played a diversity of roles, not just drug addicts, etc. What, are all actors who once played urban kids and dealers supposed to always play them? This movie, like all, can be critiqued no doubt, but your frontal assault is embarrassing.
 
Unlike the Tuskegee Airman and my grandfather, you and your review clearly missed the mark! “Crude” indeed.

Offline BPStorm4ever

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2012, 12:02:02 PM »

One of the comments to the "Review":
JRWII
9:29 AM EST
Mr. Milloy, 
I just viewed Red Tails before I came home and stumbled across your article, which after reading it all I can say in response is "unbelievable."
 
First, you go after every topical criticism you can find. You attack "Easy" Martin (Nate Parker's character) for his drinking, and Joe "Lightening" Little for his "womanizing" as you call it. Then, you criticize the personality that the young men display in the air and on the ground, while complaining about their appearance ("Disheveled?" Really?) You take issue with the inter-racial relationship, as though these types of relationships didn't exist during the war (they did, and they do today). And, as if we’re supposed to believe you don’t completely despise the film, you go on to say it’s not a bad film.
 
Let’s be honest, you write as if you didn't even "see" the film. You may have watched it, but clearly you didn’t “see” it. You probably misunderstood HBO’s “The Tuskegee Airmen” (1995) and Spike Lee’s “Miracle at St. Anna’s” because those movies starred human beings too. Did you ever see the film “Glory?” Did you understand that each of these movies involved brave, intelligent men, who themselves had needs, fears, and personal flaws? 
 
You leave absolutely no room for human beings to exist in this film. You’re right, the real Tuskegee Airman were heroes. They were the best of the best (Morehouse Men in combat as I’d put it). Guess what else? They were human! They were not the robotic soldiers for which you seem to pine. Trust me, I know. My grandfather fought in this war, and while he was no “disheveled, undisciplined… uncouth” soldier, he was human. 
 
You spent no time discussing anything redeeming about the film. You failed to mention that the “drunk” was a 4.0 college graduate from an educated family, who was coping with the pressure but still sharp enough to do his job at the highest level. You also failed to mention that your “womanizer” was a young man, who ended up pursuing marriage not just some Italian booty! He was also the best fighter pilot of the lot, and demonstrated his skill and courage enough to die for it. What’s wrong, were those traits too human for you? 
 
Your criticisms are topical and laughable. That you even spent time criticizing the previous roles of these actors tells me that you found your axe and decided to grind it. As if it is a bad thing for actors to play hustlers in one movie, then get roles as arguably the best soldiers in history? These actors (not just Terrence Howard and Cuba Gooding Jr.) are accomplished and have played a diversity of roles, not just drug addicts, etc. What, are all actors who once played urban kids and dealers supposed to always play them? This movie, like all, can be critiqued no doubt, but your frontal assault is embarrassing.
 
Unlike the Tuskegee Airman and my grandfather, you and your review clearly missed the mark! “Crude” indeed.


*standing ovation*

Also, "disservice to the Tuskegee Airmen"...does it not matter that not only were the living Tuskegee Airmen involving in the making of this movie, that they prefer it over the HBO version? I'm not asking people disliking the movie, I'd just like them to back some of their stuff up. Like the counter-review/comment said, this person had an axe to grind.
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Offline Battle

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2012, 02:52:18 PM »
I also think a lot of people misunderstood what I meant when I wrote that "Red Tails" is a live-action version of Warner Bros.' Merrie Melodies - "A Corny Concerto"  featuring "Blue Danube" because I'm reading other folk's impression of the movie in a lot of forums describing that the film  is 'cartoony'.   That's not what I meant.

What I meant was that during World War II a lot of U.S. propaganda starting showing up in a lot of  radio, and television which would include animated shorts that were shown in movie theaters. "Blue Danube" was made in the mid- 1940s so, It's clear to me that "Blue Danube" was telling a story symbolizing American Black fighter pilots using a Black duck.
Who were the most distinguished Black fighter pilots in the Air Force?  332nd Fighter Group  also known as The Tuskegee Airmen, that's who!

In those days, it wasn't very popular to show Black characters in cartoons (much less movies) unless they were being clowned. So, Black characters were either characterized as either ducks (Blue Danube) or crows (Dumbo) without actually showing Black people.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 10:39:16 AM by Battle »

Offline michaelintp

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2012, 03:02:52 PM »
Very interesting historical point!  Seriously.
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Offline Emperorjones

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2012, 11:35:32 AM »
As for some haters, generally who I am assuming are of a conservative persuasion, on the internet who were quick to mention the HBO Tuskegee Airmen movie, as if one movie can ever definitively capture the experiences of the Airmen, I think that's just covering their distaste for or lack of interest in African-American history, particularly if it counters the glowing whitewashed image they have painted of US history. However if they took the time to actually watch Red Tails they would probably find some things that they like about it: duty, honor, patriotism, self-reliance, etc. All the things they claim they like or movies should promote.

Haters?  Maybe it was just folk applying the ol' truthometer to some of the George Lucas statements that possibly mislead people into thinking that nobody had made a film on the topic in the past.  

Also, assuming most critics are Left-leaning, perhaps they've panned the film precisely because it is patriotic.

My late reply is do to my sketchy internet access as of late. I'm sure someone has probably already expressed what I'm about to say (and admittedly I don't have to time or inclination to read all of the replies), but basically I wanted to say that I feel all the fine toothcombing over what Lucas said, perhaps as a rationale not to see this film, is a bunch of crap. If people don't want to see the film, don't watch it.

Lucas might have misspoken, he might not have been aware of the HBO film, or he may have forgotten it. What does that have to do with watching the film and judging it on its merits, or lack thereof?

As for the film critics (of those I read, I didn't know their political affiliation), some did feel it was corny (now was that because of the patriotic theme? Don't know), but I don't think it is right to assume that left-leaning people aren't patriotic or respond positively to patriotic themes, or that those things are solely the province of the right. I think that is something too many left-leaning people have allowed the right to get away with over the years, wrapping themselves in the flag, and smearing many who don't agree with them as "anti-American", as if they alone define what it means to be an American. Further, most critics had, or claimed, to have no problem with the idea of doing a Tuskegee Airmen film, they just didn't like how it was executed. That's much different than some internet posters who decried the very notion of the film in the first place, or point to the HBO film as if the complete story has been told and doesn't need to be told ever again.

Offline michaelintp

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2012, 12:40:34 PM »
The suggestion by some on the Internet (referenced above) that a film on a subject should not be made because someone else made a movie or miniseries is incredibly stupid - if that is what some folk were actually saying. And no doubt some were because on the Internet idiots abound.  On the other hand, suggesting that Lucas should acknowledge and tip his hat to past portrayals is fair.
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"Still ... they fear once their hates are gone, they'll have to deal with their own self-pain."
- Olivia Godfrey, Hemlock Grove

Offline Princesa

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2012, 07:56:18 AM »
This movie...was not good. Bad script. Bad choice of actors. Bad execution. Good flight scenes. The corny this dude falling in love with this white woman a 1000 feet in the air (ahh that's freedom isn't it? I mean really?) Never mind those guys had their BLACK wives and Black girlfriends whom they loved names written on their planes. God forbid a white woman be portrayed as a jumpoff piece of ass.  Terrance Howard who's voice like nails on a chalkboard...It was a shi++y mess. I did not want to see it but I went and twisted in my seat the whole time. It was bad.

Offline Kristopher

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2012, 09:41:45 AM »
This movie...was not good. Bad script. Bad choice of actors. Bad execution. Good flight scenes. The corny this dude falling in love with this white woman a 1000 feet in the air (ahh that's freedom isn't it? I mean really?) Never mind those guys had their BLACK wives and Black girlfriends whom they loved names written on their planes. God forbid a white woman be portrayed as a jumpoff piece of ass.

No, actually he (the best damn pilot on the base) just fell in love....with a WOMAN...PERIOD! If you have skin colour/ tribal issues, do not blame Lucas, or the thousands of White, Black, Asian, Native Indian, men who went to war and just happened to fall in love with someone whose skin tone was different from their mama's. That's your problem, not theirs.

Offline Battle

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2012, 09:56:38 AM »
This movie...was not good. Bad script. Bad choice of actors. Bad execution. Good flight scenes. The corny this dude falling in love with this white woman a 1000 feet in the air (ahh that's freedom isn't it? I mean really?) Never mind those guys had their BLACK wives and Black girlfriends whom they loved names written on their planes. God forbid a white woman be portrayed as a jumpoff piece of ass.

No, actually he (the best damn pilot on the base) just fell in love....with a WOMAN...PERIOD!





Exactly, Lightning spotted the Italian babe from afar and that's how that scene was supposed to be read [read: Love At First Sight].  I didn't have a problem with it.

Offline Princesa

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Re: George Lucas: 'Red Tails' w/ trailer
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2012, 10:04:46 AM »
riigght ::)